Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

jimbo45 · Jun 26, 2021

Hi there

@Kari
thanks for replies

I've given up for the day !!! Beer time I'm happy with performance etc but as always I get hosed up in Windows Networking

The VM has full internet access but can't see HOST t or any other machine on LAN -- looks like there's some "Nat" address using default switch. I created an external one to use the wired nic but can't delete the default one. For some machines on LAN I need SMB1 - done that, disabled firewall and allowed "connections to this computer". Still no joy.

Anyway leaving it for today as it was the TPM I was trying to test and that seems to be OK.
Appreciate though any ideas to get LAN and HOST access from the VM (on Gen 2 of course !!)

Cheers
jimbo

ish4d0w · Jun 26, 2021

jimbo45 said:
...

So it looks like VM's will run whatever the actual hardware is.

I used the "Quick create" --if I tried "Install OS later and then added hardware DVD (image) I got boot failures - but that's probably my inexperience with HYPER-V rather than an inherent problem.

;...

Hey! Glad to hear it worked out!

The boot issue is because it boots differently than QEMU. Use the Firmware tab in settings to set up links to point to an EFI file to boot from, when you want to add boot media later on.
To simplify it: Hyper-V does not really take ISOs or VHDXes to boot from. Well it does but that's not what you have to tell the boot manager. It does not do auto lookup like many other VM engines would do. It needs a hard link to an EFI file directly that it can fire, be it on the installer media or the VHDX.
This is why it is a good idea to use the quick create wizard because that will do it for you.

Also you might want to disable checkpoints. While they are very useful, they also work differently than snapshots in virtualbox or vmware. They are heavily automated and are very often created taking up space. For testing installations and upgrading often, you might be better disabling auto-checkpoints and taking manual captures instead. Good luck jimbo45!

Kari · Jun 26, 2021

jimbo45 said:
The VM has full internet access but can't see HOST t or any other machine on LAN -- looks like there's some "Nat" address using default switch. I created an external one to use the wired nic but can't delete the default one.

Hyper-V Default Switch is behind NAT, making networking with host, if not totally impossible, at least quite difficult. Therefore, for networking, you should create an external switch and use it instead. Also, switching VM to private network instead of default public is important.

Default switch cannot be deleted. Or, rather, it can be deleted for the duration of current session, but it will be re-created when host is rebooted.

Kari

Kari · Jun 26, 2021

ish4d0w said:
To simplify it: Hyper-V does not really take ISOs or VHDXes to boot from. Well it does but that's not what you have to tell the boot manager. It does not do auto lookup like many other VM engines would do. It needs a hard link to an EFI file directly that it can fire, be it on the installer media or the VHDX.

That is simply not true. You can even delete the EFI file, and boot an installed Windows directly from VHDX or AVHDX (checkpoint).

Kari

ish4d0w · Jun 26, 2021

Kari said:
That is simply not true. You can even delete the EFI file, and boot an installed Windows directly from VHDX or AVHDX (checkpoint).

View attachment 857

Kari

Oh okay then, my bad. But still, even in your configuration, the EFI file is there directly to boot from. That is the default configuration, I guess the ability to boot from VHDX is the alternate method.

johnlgalt · Jun 26, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi there
Interesting -- however does the TPM support work if you've either disabled in BIOS the TPM or your CPU / MOBO doesn't have it. The KVM solution doesn't rely on there actually being a physical TPM module. I'll try a HYPER-V GEN 2 solution on a spare INTEL laptop (disabling the TPM in the BIOS) to try and replicate creating a VM on a machine that doesn't have TPM.

I don't need to do anything with the VM but just see if Windows "recognises" the virtual TPM hardware. It's one thing adding support in the VM config but another to get the Windows VM to recognise it. !! For instance if I disable TPM and don't run the TPM emulator then the Windows VM doesn't recognise the TPM device,

If HYPER-V has a built in "TPM" emulator that's an interesting solution for primary Windows users of course

Maybe @Kari - any ideas on "Virtual TPM emulation on a VM with HYPER-V" if the Host either doesn't have TPM or it's been disabled.

I'll have a go later today with this -- not much else going on currently --and anything to get out of a "trip to the Supermarket" on a Sat afternoon. !!!!

Another query for the Windows cognoscenti. What's Windows 11 currently doing with TPM - looking at the activity log - doesn't seem to be doing anything with it - it recognises that it exists - but again I'm only using the leaked iso - the next in line official ones might be more informative.

Cheers
jimbo

Yes it does.

EDIT:

lol whoops - I missed another page of replies. This has already been answered, sorry.

CornishRattler · Jun 26, 2021

I replaced the appraiserres.dll file in the W11 sources folder with one from a W10 iso.
I have no TPM on my machine. Installed without a hitch after that.

johnlgalt · Jun 26, 2021

Nice. Let's see if this is doable in actually released builds.

ish4d0w · Jun 27, 2021

Hi,

Do you think a TPM could be added to this board?

https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files/Manual/mb_manual_ga-h81m-hd3_v2.x_e.pdf

SIW2 · Jun 27, 2021

Doesnt look like it has a header. Unlikely there will be a bios update . There are easy workarounds now, might also be the case with the final release. It runs fine on ivybridge i3-3220 machine without tpm at the moment.

markanini · Jun 27, 2021

ish4d0w said:
Hi,

Do you think a TPM could be added to this board?

https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files/Manual/mb_manual_ga-h81m-hd3_v2.x_e.pdf
View attachment 963

It's possible the CPU has built-in TPM. From what I've heard it's starting from Haswell generation. Try enabling Secure Boot, disabling CSM and see if new options show up in UEFI, like Trusted Platform or PTT or TPM State.

ish4d0w · Jun 27, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi there
Interesting -- however does the TPM support work if you've either disabled in BIOS the TPM or your CPU / MOBO doesn't have it. The KVM solution doesn't rely on there actually being a physical TPM module. I'll try a HYPER-V GEN 2 solution on a spare INTEL laptop (disabling the TPM in the BIOS) to try and replicate creating a VM on a machine that doesn't have TPM.

I don't need to do anything with the VM but just see if Windows "recognises" the virtual TPM hardware. It's one thing adding support in the VM config but another to get the Windows VM to recognise it. !! For instance if I disable TPM and don't run the TPM emulator then the Windows VM doesn't recognise the TPM device,

If HYPER-V has a built in "TPM" emulator that's an interesting solution for primary Windows users of course

Maybe @Kari - any ideas on "Virtual TPM emulation on a VM with HYPER-V" if the Host either doesn't have TPM or it's been disabled.

I'll have a go later today with this -- not much else going on currently --and anything to get out of a "trip to the Supermarket" on a Sat afternoon. !!!!

Another query for the Windows cognoscenti. What's Windows 11 currently doing with TPM - looking at the activity log - doesn't seem to be doing anything with it - it recognises that it exists - but again I'm only using the leaked iso - the next in line official ones might be more informative.

Cheers
jimbo

Hi @jimbo45

Glad that the experiment is working out well

another tip mainly for those who are using the Home edition of WIndows 10, or don't want to enable Hyper-V:
VMWare Workstation 16 is now capable of adding a virtual TPM too, if you enable it's encryption. See

ish4d0w · Jun 27, 2021

markanini said:
It's possible the CPU has built-in TPM. From what I've heard it's starting from Haswell generation. Try enabling Secure Boot, disabling CSM and see if new options show up in UEFI, like Trusted Platform or PTT or TPM State.

Thank you! Sadly, it does not have it.

ish4d0w · Jun 27, 2021

SIW2 said:
Doesnt look like it has a header. Unlikely there will be a bios update . There are easy workarounds now, might also be the case with the final release. It runs fine on ivybridge i3-3220 machine without tpm at the moment.

Thank you too. It seems that you're indeed right, no header. We're sticking with the insider preview now, that one does not require it.

markanini · Jun 27, 2021

ish4d0w said:
Thank you! Sadly, it does not have it.

Which model do you have?

johnlgalt · Jun 27, 2021

Based on the image posted, this one?

GA-H81M-HD3 (rev. 1.0) Overview | Motherboard - GIGABYTE U.S.A.

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

Bree · Jun 27, 2021

Let's see, which of my machines would be the lowest spec and least appropriate to install Windows 11 on?

That would be my little netbook, an Acer Aspire One D270.

Specs: Legacy BIOS, no TPM or secure boot. Intel Atom N2600, 2GB RAM. Even the display at 1024x600 doesn't meet Win11's minimum requirement of a "High definition (720p) display". And there are no display drivers available, so it's stuck with the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter.

So to install I used the MCT to make a 21H1 x64 ISO in the same language (en-us) as the W11 ISO, then copied everything to a USB except for the sources\install.esd. That I replaced with the install.wim from the Win11 ISO.

The install was a little slow, and the OOBE initial setup was excruciatingly slow. The Microsoft Basic Display Adapter cannot really handle the fancy graphic effects on the opening screen.

As this machine only has a digital license for Home (it was supplied by the OEM with 32-bit Win7 Starter) I installed W11 Home. As I didn't have a MS account to sign in with I needed to create a local account. To do that, at the 'Let's get you connected' screen press Alt+F4.

Once installed it seems to run surprisingly well (I'm posting this from it). Of course, 2GB RAM is really not enough for a 64-bit OS, whether it's 7, 8, 10 or 11.

Kari · Jun 27, 2021

Nice, Bree!

Bree · Jun 27, 2021

Kari said:
Nice, Bree!

Thanks. I think though that after playing with it for a while I'll restore it's x86 21H1 Macrium image

fafhrd · Jun 28, 2021

Without any experience of Windows 11 yet, I would suspect that Windows Setup - i.e. the WinPE module that installs Windows, is responsible for all the system checking and barriers to installation on inappropriately specified hardware as judged by the Windows 11 developers. So a Deployment via Dism/imagex will presumably succeed on "inadequate" kit, and if sysprep is bypassed it should run with the built-in administrator without any difficulties? (Took about 35 minutes from starting to apply install.wim to the VHD to first boot to Windows 11 desktop)

ish4d0w said:
Oh we've just started and already have this topic! I love it!
Now let's run it on a Core 2 Duo iMac from 2009 and MSI AM1i (AMD Athlon 5350) desktops without TPM!

@ish4d0w Here's the iMac 9.1 Core2Duo you asked for, running nicely on mbr in a native boot VHD of 60GB, no secureboot, no TPM:

Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

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