Rufus and ntfs/UEFI boot -- what's the problem


jimbo45

jimbo45

Well-known member
Pro User
VIP
Local time
2:00 PM
Posts
4,800
Location
Hafnarfjörður IS
OS
Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
Hi folks
I can't see what the problem is when creating a bootable W11 install disk from an ISO made by UUPDUMP.

I'm physically booting a physical USB stick containing a Rufus generated W11 install with UEFI / NTFS boot. Works even on a 10 year old laptop.

I've run it also in a VM - KVM/QEMU and HYPER-V allow boot from a physical USB sdrive and paused it so you can see what it's doing.

Works perfectly normally -- can't understand all the hoo ha about UEFI machines not being able to boot these Windows install media created by rufus. Incidentally this laptop is old enough so it can support MBR booting too but I never use that any more and note this is full UEFI -no CSM and I've also enabled secure boot too.

So let's have no more nonsense that modern equipment and most going back at least 10 years cant boot with UEFI/NTFS and secure boot.

Screenshot_20230524_095627.png




Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7
That it works for you is no proof that it works for everyone!
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 26100.2894
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Swift SF114-34
    CPU
    Pentium Silver N6000 1.10GHz
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    SSD
    Cooling
    fanless
    Internet Speed
    150 Mbps
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Webroot Secure Anywhere
    Other Info
    System 3

    ASUS T100TA Transformer
    Processor Intel Atom Z3740 @ 1.33GHz
    Installed RAM 2.00 GB (1.89 GB usable)
    System type 32-bit operating system, x64-based processor

    Edition Windows 10 Home
    Version 22H2 build 19045.3570
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 22631.2506
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Mini 210-1090NR PC (bought in late 2009!)
    CPU
    Atom N450 1.66GHz
    Memory
    2GB
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Webroot
kelper said:
That it works for you is no proof that it works for everyone!
Click to expand...
I think it will work for most especially with modern hardware. Unlike MBR which is special code written on sector 0 of the HDD the UEFI simply is a file on the disk which looks for a partition table (via partition guuids), checks if there's an available NTFS UEFI boot driver and then branches to the boot efi file. If it can't find a driver the rufus system loads its own which normally works and then does the same thing. Nothing magical about it.

The point of the post was to say there's nothing magical about this and these days no special hardware is requred to boot a NTFS UEFI partition.

cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7
You're missing the complete story. Rufus had an UEFI boot loader which read NTFS filesystems, to support ISO images > 4 GB. The problem was it wasn't digitally signed by MS, so the only way it worked was to disable Secure Boot or fall back to FAT32 (and reduce your image to 4 GB). Many users were upset by this.

Eventually MS agreed to sign his boot loader, and now you can use Rufus-created UEFI images > 4 GB. But the old story persists, because very few people bothered to share the news. It's clearly documented in Rufus' release notes.

If you're stuck with the OLD Rufus versions, it's still broken for you.

When MS rolls out their new UEFI blocklist to disallow older boot loaders, Rufus will be in the same boat as everyone outside of MS.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
When using a program like Rufus, that operates on the cutting edge of technology, (so to speak) it's always a good idea to keep the program up to date. I do use Rufus quite a bit, but I never use it without first making sure that I have the latest version. Eh?
 

My Computer

System One

i have newer system , did not need disable secure boot, my older system from 2017, 6th gen i7, need to disable secure boot or it hangs. so might have to do with TPM version,
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
A lot of pcs cannot boot from NTFS in EUFI.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro + Win11 Canary VM.
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Zenbook 14
    CPU
    I9 13th gen i9-13900H 2.60 GHZ
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB soldered
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop OLED screen
    Screen Resolution
    2880x1800 touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    1 TB NVME SSD (only weakness is only one slot)
    PSU
    Internal + 65W thunderbolt USB4 charger
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois (UK pint cans - 568 ml) - extra cost.
    Keyboard
    Built in UK keybd
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wireless dongled, wired
    Internet Speed
    900 mbs (ethernet), wifi 6 typical 350-450 mb/s both up and down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0, 2xUSB4 thunderbolt, 1xUsb3 (usb a), 1xUsb-c, hdmi out, 3.5 mm audio out/in combo, ASUS backlit trackpad (inc. switchable number pad)

    Macrium Reflect Home V8
    Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
    Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)
cereberus said:
A lot of pcs cannot boot from NTFS in EUFI.
Click to expand...
100% true. I have systems that fall into this category. Once again, this is something documented on the RUFUS web site. It is noted there that there is no technical reason why boot from USB removable media formatted with NTFS should not work, it's as simple as some manufacturers choosing not to implement this.

But this is so easy to work around that it should be a non-issue. Simply use the method that create two partitions, one small FAT32 partition, and then the bulk in a second NTFS partition. That method always works on legacy BIOS and UEFI based systems.

I create all my bootable using that method so that I can guarantee that it works on every system, every time.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Kamrui Mini PC, Model CK10
    CPU
    Intel i5-12450H
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    No GPU - Built-in Intel Graphics
    Sound Card
    Integrated
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP Envy 32
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    1 x 2TB NVMe SSD
    1 x 4TB NVMe SSD
    1 x 4TB 2.5" SSD
    PSU
    120W "Brick"
    Keyboard
    Corsair K70 Mechanical Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    1Gb Up / 1 Gb Down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Win11 Pro 23H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo ThinkBook 13x Gen 2
    CPU
    Intel i7-1255U
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC3306-CG codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    13.3-inch IPS Display
    Screen Resolution
    WQXGA (2560 x 1600)
    Hard Drives
    2 TB 4 x 4 NVMe SSD
    PSU
    USB-C / Thunderbolt 4 Power / Charging
    Mouse
    Buttonless Glass Precision Touchpad
    Keyboard
    Backlit, spill resistant keyboard
    Internet Speed
    1Gb Up / 1Gb Down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    WiFi 6e / Bluetooth 5.1 / Facial Recognition / Fingerprint Sensor / ToF (Time of Flight) Human Presence Sensor
No , if you turn off secure boot it will work, nothing to do with uefi and ntfs
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
hsehestedt said:
100% true. I have systems that fall into this category. Once again, this is something documented on the RUFUS web site. It is noted there that there is no technical reason why boot from USB removable media formatted with NTFS should not work, it's as simple as some manufacturers choosing not to implement this.

But this is so easy to work around that it should be a non-issue. Simply use the method that create two partitions, one small FAT32 partition, and then the bulk in a second NTFS partition. That method always works on legacy BIOS and UEFI based systems.

I create all my bootable using that method so that I can guarantee that it works on every system, every time.
Click to expand...
It was me who wrote the tutorial in www.tenforums.com LOL.

www.tenforums.com

Create bootable USB installer if install.wim is greater than 4GB

Information As discussed in tutorial DISM - Split install.wim file | Windows 10 Tutorials, it is not possible to create a bootable flash drive in fat32 format if the install.wim file is over 4GB in size. That tutorial presents a method to spl
www.tenforums.com www.tenforums.com
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro + Win11 Canary VM.
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Zenbook 14
    CPU
    I9 13th gen i9-13900H 2.60 GHZ
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB soldered
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop OLED screen
    Screen Resolution
    2880x1800 touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    1 TB NVME SSD (only weakness is only one slot)
    PSU
    Internal + 65W thunderbolt USB4 charger
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois (UK pint cans - 568 ml) - extra cost.
    Keyboard
    Built in UK keybd
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wireless dongled, wired
    Internet Speed
    900 mbs (ethernet), wifi 6 typical 350-450 mb/s both up and down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0, 2xUSB4 thunderbolt, 1xUsb3 (usb a), 1xUsb-c, hdmi out, 3.5 mm audio out/in combo, ASUS backlit trackpad (inc. switchable number pad)

    Macrium Reflect Home V8
    Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
    Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)
computerdave911 said:
No , if you turn off secure boot it will work, nothing to do with uefi and ntfs
Click to expand...
Nope - it has everything to do with UEFI and how manufacturers implement it. Many (most in fact) just have not implement UEFI boot from NTFS.

Don't you think regulars here would have tested it with and without secure boot?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro + Win11 Canary VM.
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Zenbook 14
    CPU
    I9 13th gen i9-13900H 2.60 GHZ
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB soldered
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop OLED screen
    Screen Resolution
    2880x1800 touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    1 TB NVME SSD (only weakness is only one slot)
    PSU
    Internal + 65W thunderbolt USB4 charger
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois (UK pint cans - 568 ml) - extra cost.
    Keyboard
    Built in UK keybd
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wireless dongled, wired
    Internet Speed
    900 mbs (ethernet), wifi 6 typical 350-450 mb/s both up and down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0, 2xUSB4 thunderbolt, 1xUsb3 (usb a), 1xUsb-c, hdmi out, 3.5 mm audio out/in combo, ASUS backlit trackpad (inc. switchable number pad)

    Macrium Reflect Home V8
    Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
    Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)
UEFI:NTFS is NOT compatible with SecureBoot GOOGLE it
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
i repair 20 comptuers per day, and have never seen a computer that could not boot using rufus, as long as you turn off secure boot , some new systems work though with it on, many do not,
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
i notice most who post in forums have no idea what they are talking about, lol
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
there is not a windows 7 or 8 .10 computer on the planet that you cant install windows 11 on using rufus ntfs as long as you turn off secure boot with uefi during windows setup. then turn back on after.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.4249
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
computerdave911 said:
there is not a windows 7 or 8 .10 computer on the planet that you cant install windows 11 on using rufus ntfs as long as you turn off secure boot with uefi during windows setup. then turn back on after.
Click to expand...
You can't install Windows 11 on a computer that has a 32-bit processor. And you can't install Windows 11 on one with a 64-bit processor IF it has a 32-bit BIOS! And nobody has more posts in this thread than you, so you are right on one thing.

🤣😂​

 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 24H2 26100.2894
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Swift SF114-34
    CPU
    Pentium Silver N6000 1.10GHz
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    SSD
    Cooling
    fanless
    Internet Speed
    150 Mbps
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Webroot Secure Anywhere
    Other Info
    System 3

    ASUS T100TA Transformer
    Processor Intel Atom Z3740 @ 1.33GHz
    Installed RAM 2.00 GB (1.89 GB usable)
    System type 32-bit operating system, x64-based processor

    Edition Windows 10 Home
    Version 22H2 build 19045.3570
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 22631.2506
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Mini 210-1090NR PC (bought in late 2009!)
    CPU
    Atom N450 1.66GHz
    Memory
    2GB
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Webroot
Should I select NTFS or FAT32 in Rufus?

By default, Rufus uses the NTFS file system to format USB drives, but sometimes you may need to use the FAT32 file system. This may be necessary if the device you are trying to boot has limited compatibility with the NTFS file system, or if you need to create a bootable drive for an older computer or device. , If you use Microsoft's Media creation tool it will always use fat32 even with Windows 11,
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 23h2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP dk1018ca
cereberus said:
It was me who wrote the tutorial in www.tenforums.com LOL.

www.tenforums.com

Create bootable USB installer if install.wim is greater than 4GB

Information As discussed in tutorial DISM - Split install.wim file | Windows 10 Tutorials, it is not possible to create a bootable flash drive in fat32 format if the install.wim file is over 4GB in size. That tutorial presents a method to spl
www.tenforums.com www.tenforums.com
Click to expand...
One of my all-time favorite tutorials. When I saw it, my head nearly exploded. It's one of the reasons I love these forums so much, because I get educated by really knowledgeable people like you every day!

I owe you a huge thanks for that.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea how you came upon that information?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win11 Pro 24H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Kamrui Mini PC, Model CK10
    CPU
    Intel i5-12450H
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    No GPU - Built-in Intel Graphics
    Sound Card
    Integrated
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP Envy 32
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    1 x 2TB NVMe SSD
    1 x 4TB NVMe SSD
    1 x 4TB 2.5" SSD
    PSU
    120W "Brick"
    Keyboard
    Corsair K70 Mechanical Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    1Gb Up / 1 Gb Down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Win11 Pro 23H2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo ThinkBook 13x Gen 2
    CPU
    Intel i7-1255U
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC3306-CG codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    13.3-inch IPS Display
    Screen Resolution
    WQXGA (2560 x 1600)
    Hard Drives
    2 TB 4 x 4 NVMe SSD
    PSU
    USB-C / Thunderbolt 4 Power / Charging
    Mouse
    Buttonless Glass Precision Touchpad
    Keyboard
    Backlit, spill resistant keyboard
    Internet Speed
    1Gb Up / 1Gb Down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    WiFi 6e / Bluetooth 5.1 / Facial Recognition / Fingerprint Sensor / ToF (Time of Flight) Human Presence Sensor
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Support Threads

Latest Tutorials

Back
Top Bottom