the option to remove using pin for sign on is greyed out


bbxrider

Member
Local time
10:57 AM
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11
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windows 11
trying to change my current login from pin to username/pswd,
the option to remove using pin for sign on is greyed out. per gemini, to fix that suggests runniing sfc , and 3 DISM tools, I ran sfc, no issues there and I have tried running the 1st, DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth, but it doesn't finish after 2 hrs, so not sure how to continue to be able to remove pin. there are 2 other DISM's to run, after this. anybody know how to resolve this?
    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth</span>
    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth</span>

    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth</span>
    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth</span>
    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth</span>
    • <span>DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth</span>
 

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Did you re-enable all the Windows Hello settings after your last RDP thread?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.5039
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    PC/Desktop
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    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
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    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
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    Onboard
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    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
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    All over the place
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    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
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    Silverstone 1500
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    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
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    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
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    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
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    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Antivirus
    Defender / Malwarebytes
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    …still on a horse.
Logged in with Admin account or User Account?
Since you logged in with a Password, you should be able to now log in with a pin and RDP should continue to work


IMG_5365.webp
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.5039
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Antivirus
    Defender / Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
Just curious. Does it say anything in your settings page that the settings are run by your administrator?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.5039
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Antivirus
    Defender / Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
thanks for all the time your spending on this

not sure what your getting at with "Did you re-enable all the Windows Hello settings after your last RDP thread?", I didn't knowingly disable any windows hello settings, just getting familiar with this whole "windows hello" concept, it appears to be a tool to manage different ways to login and there seems to be ramifications for choosing one method vs another, when I realized I could use a 4 digit pin I took that, even though it seems far less secure than a username and complex big password

the local acct I created to test establishing pc2pc connectivity is not an admin acct

I have not seen anything in settings about being run by my administrator, I am the only admin acct, in the gemini info it mentions that domain sys admins can disable the ability to change login protocols for seeming obvious security reasons, I got this pc brand new and have kept all the sys admin stuff as setup by dell, until my problems trying to establish connections, I have not even looked the sign options in settings

my sign-in options are different from your post

sign-in.options.webp
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    dell inspiron 15 5530
    CPU
    intel gen 12, I7 1255U
    Memory
    16gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics
    Sound Card
    Cirrus Logic High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    1tb NVMe BG6 KIOXIA 1024GB
    Case
    laptop
    Keyboard
    manhattan
    Mouse
    manhattan
    Internet Speed
    300mbps
    Browser
    chrome
    Antivirus
    comodo
Your account is required to have a password to remove a pin (I believe)

not sure what your getting at with "Did you re-enable all the Windows Hello settings after your last RDP thread

My appologies, I confused your credentials thread with someone else's RDP thread.

even though it seems far less secure than a username and complex big password

Debatable. Please read this:
(Also read my next post about Pin complexities)


How is a PIN different from (and better than) a password? On the surface, a PIN looks much like a password. A PIN can be a set of numbers, but enterprise policy might allow complex PINs that include special characters and letters, both upper-case and lower-case. Something like t758A! could be an account password or a complex Hello PIN. It isn't the structure of a PIN (length, complexity) that makes it better than a password, it's how it works.
  • PIN is tied to the device
    One important difference between a password and a Hello PIN is that the PIN is tied to the specific device on which it was set up. That PIN is useless to anyone without that specific hardware. Someone who steals your password can sign in to your account from anywhere, but if they steal your PIN, they'd have to steal your physical device too!

    Even you can't use that PIN anywhere except on that specific device. If you want to sign in on multiple devices, you have to set up Hello on each device.
  • PIN is local to the device
    A password is transmitted to the server -- it can be intercepted in transmission or stolen from a server. A PIN is local to the device -- it isn't transmitted anywhere and it isn't stored on the server. When the PIN is created, it establishes a trusted relationship with the identity provider and creates an asymmetric key pair that is used for authentication. When you enter your PIN, it unlocks the authentication key and uses the key to sign the request that is sent to the authenticating server.
  • PIN is backed by hardware
    The Hello PIN is backed by a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip, which is a secure crypto-processor that is designed to carry out cryptographic operations. The chip includes multiple physical security mechanisms to make it tamper resistant, and malicious software is unable to tamper with the security functions of the TPM. All Windows 10 Mobile phones and many modern laptops have TPM.

    User key material is generated and available within the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) of the user device, which protects it from attackers who want to capture the key material and reuse it. Because Hello uses asymmetric key pairs, users credentials can't be stolen in cases where the identity provider or websites the user accesses have been compromised.

    The TPM protects against a variety of known and potential attacks, including PIN brute-force attacks. After too many incorrect guesses, the device is locked.
  • PIN can be complex
    The Windows Hello for Business PIN is subject to the same set of IT management policies as a password, such as complexity, length, expiration, and history. Although we generally think of a PIN as a simple four-digit code, administrators can set policies for managed devices to require a PIN complexity similar to a password. You can require or block: special characters, uppercase characters, lowercase characters, and digits.
  • What if someone steals the laptop or phone?
    To compromise a Windows Hello credential that TPM protects, an attacker must have access to the physical device, and then must find a way to spoof the user's biometrics or guess his or her PIN—and all of this must be done before TPM anti-hammering protection locks the device. You can provide additional protection for laptops that don't have TPM by enabling BitLocker and setting a policy to limit failed sign-ins.
  • Why do you need a PIN to use biometrics?
    Windows Hello enables biometric sign-in for Windows 11: fingerprint, iris, or facial recognition. When you set up Windows Hello, you're asked to create a PIN first. This PIN enables you to sign in using the PIN when you can't use your preferred biometric because of an injury or because the sensor is unavailable or not working properly.

    If you only had a biometric sign-in configured and, for any reason, were unable to use that method to sign in, you would have to sign in using your account and password, which doesn't provide you the same level of protection as Hello.


Your account is required to have a password to setup/remove a pin.



I also believe you need to setup a password to remove a pin:
(Read this right through, it contains important information. I did quote above from that tutorial by Brink)




So you mention that the local account isn’t an admin account, then you mention that “ I am the only admin acct” so I am not sure which is which, doesn’t really matter.


I have not seen anything in settings about being run by my administrator

OK. Some settings can be greyed out if your PC is run by a systems admin or possibly an education account. Resetting group policies can help with that, but it doesn’t seem relevant if your settings page doesn't say that the settings are run by your administrator
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.5039
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Antivirus
    Defender / Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
Just to mention:

In Windows 11, you can make your PIN as complex as you like, allowing for letters, numbers, and special characters, and the length can be up to 127 characters

As I mentioned in my previous post above; Your account is required to have a password to remove a pin (I believe)

You may need this: (Note: Enable Password Sign-in Option for Local Accounts)


Once you’ve setup a password, you can proceed to this:

 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build 22631.5039
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Sin-built
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (4th Gen?)
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus VI Formula
    Memory
    32.0 GB of I forget and the box is in storage.
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super OC 6GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    4 x LG 23MP75 - 2 x 24MK430H-B - 1 x Wacom Pro 22" Tablet
    Screen Resolution
    All over the place
    Hard Drives
    Too many to list.
    OS on Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SATA
    PSU
    Silverstone 1500
    Case
    NZXT Phantom 820 Full-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15 Elite Class Dual Tower CPU Cooler / 6 x EziDIY 120mm / 2 x Corsair 140mm somethings / 1 x 140mm Thermaltake something / 2 x 200mm Corsair.
    Keyboard
    Corsair K95 / Logitech diNovo Edge Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech G402 / G502 / Mx Masters / MX Air Cordless
    Internet Speed
    100/40Mbps
    Browser
    All sorts
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky Premium
    Other Info
    I’m on a horse.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 Build: 22631.4249
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    LENOVO Yoga 7i EVO OLED 14" Touchscreen i5 12 Core 16GB/512GB
    CPU
    Intel Core 12th Gen i5-1240P Processor (1.7 - 4.4GHz)
    Memory
    16GB LPDDR5 RAM
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe Graphics Processor
    Sound Card
    Optimized with Dolby Atmos®
    Screen Resolution
    QHD 2880 x 1800 OLED
    Hard Drives
    M.2 512GB
    Antivirus
    Defender / Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    …still on a horse.
Just info, if that Remove Pin is greyed out then scroll down to Additional settings and turn off "for improved security, only allow Windows Hello sign-in for Microsoft account on this device". Then reboot.


(Which is missing on the Canary version for me :eek1: )
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Win 11 Home & Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Vivobook
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen™ 7 7730U
    Motherboard
    M1605YA
    Memory
    15.0GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @ 1596MHz (22-22-22-52)
    Graphics Card(s)
    512MB ATI AMD Radeon Graphics (ASUStek Computer Inc)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Generic PnP Monitor (1920x1200@60Hz) - P1 PLUS (1920x1080@59Hz)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 X 1200
    Hard Drives
    953GB Western Digital WD
    PSU
    45 Watts
    Mouse
    Lenovo Bluetooth.
    Internet Speed
    500 Mbps
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ACER NITRO
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 5800H / 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    CZ Scala_CAS (FP6)
    Memory
    32 GB DDR4 SDRAM 3200 MHz
    Graphics card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 6 GB GDDR6 SDRAM
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio. NVIDIA High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6" LED backlight 1920 x 1080 (Full HD) 144 Hz
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 (Full HD)
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB NVMe M.2
    PSU
    180 Watt, 19.5 V
    Mouse
    Lenovo Bluetooth
    Internet Speed
    500 Mbps
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
Just info, if that Remove Pin is greyed out then scroll down to Additional settings and turn off "for improved security, only allow Windows Hello sign-in for Microsoft account on this device".


(Which is missing on the Canary version for me :eek1: )
I checked both of my desktops that are running the Canary builds and they still have the option. I'm not sure why but on my main computer the only allow Windows Hello is turned on and on the other computer it is turned off. I turned it back on.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec B746
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    16GB (8GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM x2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    #1. LG ULTRAWIDE 34" #2. AOC Q32G2WG3 32"
    Screen Resolution
    #1. 3440 X 1440 #2. 1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    NVMe WDC WDS100T2B0C-00PXH0 1TB
    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
    PSU
    750 Watts (62.5A)
    Case
    PowerSpec/Lian Li ATX 205
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270
    Mouse
    Logitech M185
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge and Firefox
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G156
    CPU
    Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz
    Motherboard
    AsusTeK Prime B360M-S
    Memory
    16 MB DDR 4-2666
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Speptre HDMI 75Hz
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 EVO 500GB NVMe
    Mouse
    Logitek M185
    Keyboard
    Logitek K270
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge and Edge Canary
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
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