Solved using SD card for Reflect backups?

Bob1212 · Oct 28, 2022

Good or bad idea?

I'd been using a USB HDD for the past year for Windows images; I'm thinking an SD card would be much, much faster. But would it wear out the card quickly? Would there be any heat problem?

My thinking is that using an SD card would be greatly more quick and convenient, so then I'd never slack off from making a monthly backup.

Thanks.

(SSD is 512GB but fairly empty so far, being new.)

Berton · Oct 28, 2022

Only issue I have seen, admittedly a bit older machines, was that even though they could boot a Linux LiveUSB drive they couldn't boot to the SDHC card, might make a difference in restoring a backup versus using for simple storage.

Try3 · Oct 28, 2022

Bob1212 said:
My thinking is that using an SD card would be greatly more quick and convenient, so then I'd never slack off from making a monthly backup.

And your backups would be at risk of exposure to malware the whole time.

Personally, I make backups onto two disks that I alternate so that I can cope with a backup disk failure coinciding with a need to restore something.
My backups disks are only ever connected during the act of backing up & I disconnect from the internet until I've finished.

All the best,
Denis

glasskuter · Oct 28, 2022

Would an sd card in an sd slot even be recognized in the pre-boot environment? I really don't know. I bet It might not if it's in an sd slot but it should if it's in a USB card reader.
It's easily proven, You only have to make a backup to the sd card. Then boot from your recovery media to see if it recognizes the sd slot as a valid drive in WinPE.

Try3 · Oct 29, 2022

Good point.
When I boot from my Macrium reflect boot disk, my SD card [in a built-in SD card slot] appears in the list of available drives when I browse to find an image.

Denis

siliconbeaver · Oct 29, 2022

Two kinds of SD interface on computer. USB or PCI/e

If your SD uses USB interface on computer, it can boot, no any issue.
If your SD uses PCI/e interface on computer, it can write/read under Windows. but cannot boot. Indeed I have seen new laptop often uses this PCI/c interface as it's easier to implement using I2C data bus.

Berton · Oct 29, 2022

While waiting for a diagnostic to finish on an old Toshiba Notebook, about 10-12 years, I took the opportunity to run Linux Mint USB Image Writer to create a bootable 4GB SDHC card in a Targus pocketable card reader [$20 at Wal*Mart] in a USB slot on a Gigabyte mother board with Intel i7-4770 CPU. It went good and is now booted to that computer.

cereberus · Oct 29, 2022

The key issue is that SD cards are the least reliable of external media.

I would not trust them as a suitable media for backups.

Anyway, compared to high speed usb drives, they are slow.

hsehestedt · Oct 29, 2022

I've used SD cards to both make and restore image backups. Here are a few things to be aware of:

1) You cite speed as a reason to use an SD card. An SD card may be faster than some of the slower USB sticks, but there are many USB sticks that are way faster than even the fastest SD cards. I own over 100 USB sticks so I assure you that I've experimented with a wide range. Making specialized boot media is one of my specialties so I've tested a wide range of media.

2) Booting from an SD card: As was noted, most systems will not boot from an SD card used in their internal card readers, however, there are a few that will. But, if you use a tiny SD or microSD card reader, it will behave just like any USB stick. I've used the SanDisk MobileMate USB 3.0 card reader. It's approx. $13 on Amazon and it's incredibly tiny.

3) Longevity: This is the part that I have to admit to having a lack of knowledge on. I simply don't know what typical ratings are for the number of write cycles on an SD card or how good the wear leveling technology is. However, I can tell you that there are SD cards specifically made for applications such as video surveillance recording that have higher than standard endurance.

4) More regarding speed: Flash memory, once written to, must first undergo an erase cycle before a cell can be rewritten. This, and others technical factors make rewriting flash memory MUCH slower when a cell is rewritten vs when it is already empty. That is why TRIM is used with SSDs to clean up and erase previously used cells that have been removed from active service. Because of the tiny size of SD and MicroSD cards, there is simply no room for a controller with that kind of sophistication. I've not tested for this specifically, but I'm sure it would be a factor.

5) I noted that I've tried this before. I don't perform regular backups to SD cards, but I do use a MicroSD card and the MobileMate card reader as an emergency recovery mechanism for my laptop. Because it is so tiny, it's perfect for carrying an emergency recovery disk that I made with me at all times. This allows me to boot either Macrium Reflect and restore an emergency image that is also on the same card, or to choose from booting either a standard Win 10 or Win 11 installation disk. I can choose to boot from any one of those all on the same MicroSD card. I even have another BitLocker encrypted partition on the same card with a backup copy of all my important documents and files.

I have to admit that it's been a long time since I researched the issues of longevity or performance degradation on SD cards, so I will try again in the morning to see if there is any new info on the topic that I can find. If I find anything, I will post it to this thread.

cereberus · Oct 29, 2022

hsehestedt said:
I've used SD cards to both make and restore image backups. Here are a few things to be aware of:

1) You cite speed as a reason to use an SD card. An SD card may be faster than some of the slower USB sticks, but there are many USB sticks that are way faster than even the fastest SD cards. I own over 100 USB sticks so I assure you that I've experimented with a wide range. Making specialized boot media is one of my specialties so I've tested a wide range of media.

2) Booting from an SD card: As was noted, most systems will not boot from an SD card used in their internal card readers, however, there are a few that will. But, if you use a tiny SD or microSD card reader, it will behave just like any USB stick. I've used the SanDisk MobileMate USB 3.0 card reader. It's approx. $13 on Amazon and it's incredibly tiny.

3) Longevity: This is the part that I have to admit to having a lack of knowledge on. I simply don't know what typical ratings are for the number of write cycles on an SD card or how good the wear leveling technology is. However, I can tell you that there are SD cards specifically made for applications such as video surveillance recording that have higher than standard endurance.

4) More regarding speed: Flash memory, once written to, must first undergo an erase cycle before a cell can be rewritten. This, and others technical factors make rewriting flash memory MUCH slower when a cell is rewritten vs when it is already empty. That is why TRIM is used with SSDs to clean up and erase previously used cells that have been removed from active service. Because of the tiny size of SD and MicroSD cards, there is simply no room for a controller with that kind of sophistication. I've not tested for this specifically, but I'm sure it would be a factor.

5) I noted that I've tried this before. I don't perform regular backups to SD cards, but I do use a MicroSD card and the MobileMate card reader as an emergency recovery mechanism for my laptop. Because it is so tiny, it's perfect for carrying an emergency recovery disk that I made with me at all times. This allows me to boot either Macrium Reflect and restore an emergency image that is also on the same card, or to choose from booting either a standard Win 10 or Win 11 installation disk. I can choose to boot from any one of those all on the same MicroSD card. I even have another BitLocker encrypted partition on the same card with a backup copy of all my important documents and files.

I have to admit that it's been a long time since I researched the issues of longevity or performance degradation on SD cards, so I will try again in the morning to see if there is any new info on the topic that I can find. If I find anything, I will post it to this thread.

Yeah you can buy more reliable SD cards. This is from one website.

Thwe key issue is sites selling such cards are economical with facts to help one make a rational purchase .

However, I have been looking around and I never found any that woildcwrote at more than 100 MB/s where my fast usb flash drive exceeds 200 MB/s and there are faster still. I went the whole hog and bought a 1GB nvme drive plus external usb caddy.

The microSD form factor was officially launched at the CTIA Wireless 2005 trade show. The reason for the launch at this cellular industry show was to address the growing need for a very small form factor memory card needed for the emerging smart phone market at the time.

Fast forward 10 years and the small form factor advantages of microSD are being used in industrial embedded designs. Unfortunately, many Consumer microSD cards are being used in applications where Industrial Grade microSD (aka SLC microSD) should be used.

Industrial microSD cards are based on SLC NAND flash memory, the most reliable available. They have endurance cycles of >2 Million per logical block and the ability to operate in high duty cycle 24/7 environments.

Consumer microSD cards are designed strictly for cost and in some cases performance. The needs of a consumer device are generally very low duty cycle and do not require the advantages, or cost, of the Industrial microSD products. Endurance cycles for consumer microSD can be as low as a few hundred per logical block.

Bob1212 · Oct 29, 2022

Wow, that's a real gold mine of info. Most is contrary to my initial off-the-cuff assumptions. The takeaway: don't do it. Thanks everybody.

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