Windows 12 ! Already....

johnlgalt · Aug 9, 2023

Thanks. I've actually upgraded it a bit.

Replaced GTX 970 with RTX 3080 Ti last year (this was the original plan when I built it, before the 30x0 series was released, but we all know how that release went, so it took longer than expected)
Replaced the 3x Sabrent 1 TB NVMe SSDs with 3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe SSDs last year (put the Sabrents in their own enclosures and use all three as external drives)
Switched to the NZXT CAM Beta software for the AIO CPU cooler - it now has both CPU and GPU temps SxS
Replaced the dual 1080p monitors with triple 4K monitors
Removed all non NVMe drives out of the setup (old 960 GB SATA drive went to my primary laptop, the others into older laptops)

One reason the LEDs don't bother me is that it sits on the ground (on the wheeled stand), under my desk. But I did avoid LED fans for all the fans in this rig, thank goodness. That got old quick on the previous rig.

Lemme get the glass cleaned up and I'll post a pic of the current setup, both on and off, with adequate lighting. Actually, I'll probably post it in the Share your computer pics thread lol. We've run around multiple circles here, and mebbe we should try to get back to talking about Win 12. Maybe. Or not. Lol.

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

In the pictures you can clearly see that your Fractal Design case is taller than the good lookin' Thermal Take Lvl 10 GT. So it's gotta be over two feet tall. Too rich for my blood. I've got four females to think of here and if I don't watch it they'll put me in the poor house. Thanks for sharing the pix. I thoroughly enjoyed viewing them. And on that note, Did you say you're running Windows 12 on that unit? :zany:

johnlgalt · Aug 9, 2023

Since I'm out of likes for the day also

Yeah, 604 mm == 23.8"

I dunno if I could handle a 36" tall tower, much less anything larger than that, as it is this thing is only 4.5" below my desk surface, but only 0.5" underneath the keyboard tray lol.

re: WIn12: well, kinda? I mean I'm on Windows 11 Moment 3, or whatever the hell Microsoft is calling it these days....

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Side by side. The Level 10 GT is also on a vinyl floor mat, the Define 7 XL is on carpet, so it loses at least a quarter inch.

View attachment 67250

Of course, I'm not measuring to the handle (and you might want to check that - the Level 10 GT was a lot more plastic than metal - and that 'handle' was part of it. Take the front face off if you hever have some downtime and look where the handle is attached). But the handle is not functional for me in any way, as I didn't make a habit of setting up LAN parties and thus need to cart it around - I basically only used hte handle when I took it outside to blow out the dust bunnies.

If ever there was a topic worthy of escalation....

BTW, I mentioned putting my rig on wheels - this is the one I bought 3 years ago:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083DMYKC9/

And, for Ss & Gs, here is the album for the original build:

The Beast-A

154 new items · Album by John L Galt

photos.app.goo.gl

Okay. You don't want to include the handle which brings it to a full 23". Fine. I won't pack my bags and go home to mother. I'll just sulk. The handle is encased in plastic. Underneath the plastic it's solid metal. And good thing because I don't think I could lift 82lbs with a cheap plastic handle. How do I know this about the handle? *cough*

:smirk:

Well, you caught me. You see, way back in the day I was so obsessed with owning this case that when I got it I broke my rule about lights. That red transparent clear plastic racing stripe on the top of the handle was just too tempting not to mod. This quick snapshot doesn't do it justice. At night it glows a deeper red and the LED's in the handle are reminiscent of the tail lights of traffic at night when driving down a long stretch of highway, in keeping with the Level 10 GT theme. So there you have it: A rare moment when Scannerman succumbed to the vanity of LED's strictly for aesthetics. Caught red-handed. Not sure if this is Windows 12 compliant or not.

*Editor's note* - I was very grateful for this handle when I had to haul the bloody thing down two flights of stairs when I moved. Even though I pulled most of the drives it was still awkward to carry because as you already know, this is not a small PC. Seems like we are both into EATX. Meh. It's a guy thing.

And the design really was based on a driving theme!

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Since I'm out of likes for the day also

Yeah, 604 mm == 23.8"

I dunno if I could handle a 36" tall tower, much less anything larger than that, as it is this thing is only 4.5" below my desk surface, but only 0.5" underneath the keyboard tray lol.

re: WIn12: well, kinda? I mean I'm on Windows 11 Moment 3, or whatever the hell Microsoft is calling it these days....

Perhaps they'll call it WINDOWS FS (short for Final Solution). The OS could be completely modular (apart from the basics, like paint, notepad, the browser etc.) You could go to the Windows store to pick and choose and customize your operating system. They could sell the license to this bare bones modular framework for $49.95 and still make a killing because everyone would be able to afford it. People would be delighted with the idea of customizing their OS to be exactly the way they want it and they could buy extra aps cheap and just keep on building as they grew. After all not everyone wants One Drive or Office but that could also be an option just as it is now. Then they could announce that they won't be releasing any new operating systems again (just like they did last time) and everyone would get their panties in a bunch (just like they did last time) and they would have impetus to ruin the whole scheme all over again and charge a bundle for a bundle of issues (just like they did last time).

Whaddayathink?

Good idea?

johnlgalt · Aug 9, 2023

Scannerman said:
Okay. You don't want to include the handle which brings it to a full 23". Fine. I won't pack my bags and go home to mother. I'll just sulk. The handle is encased in plastic. Underneath the plastic it's solid metal. And good thing because I don't think I could lift 82lbs with a cheap plastic handle. How do I know this about the handle? *cough*

Huh. I could have sworn I actually removed it and there is nothing underneath it - but you're right, plastic versus weight and plastic loses, so it must have the metal in it.

Scannerman said:
Well, you caught me. You see, way back in the day I was so obsessed with owning this case that when I got it I broke my rule about lights. That red transparent clear plastic racing stripe on the top of the handle was just too tempting not to mod. This quick snapshot doesn't do it justice. At night it glows a deeper red and the LED's in the handle are reminiscent of the tail lights of traffic at night when driving down a long stretch of highway, in keeping with the Level 10 GT theme. So there you have it: A rare moment when Scannerman succumbed to the vanity of LED's strictly for aesthetics. Caught red-handed. Not sure if this is Windows 12 compliant or not.

Lol! I considered the exact same mod, but later on I'm glad I did not go there.

One other thing about my current rig - I also got the SteelSeries Apx Pro keyboard, and it has lights a-plenty.

Apex Pro

The world's fastest gaming keyboard with ultimate adjustability for every key in full size form.

steelseries.com

Then, I later bought the black-top PrismCaps for it:

PrismCaps Universal Double Shot PBT Keycaps

Built for extreme durability with enhanced RGB lighting and compatible with the widest range of mechanical keyboards.

steelseries.com

So, I got plenty of LED in my face lol. But I like it, as it gives me a nice visual indication of when I press a key (and certain keys give a slight different visual impulse) all in my peripheral vision (but also turn off aftger 5 minutes of no key presses).

So, there's that.

Scannerman said:
Perhaps they'll call it WINDOWS FS (short for Final Solution).

Never happen. It would confuse people who buy FS 2025 versus FS 2030 that has completely different minimum system requirements.

Scannerman said:
Whaddayathink? Good idea?

They are kinda moving toward this now, similarly as Google is doing with Android, removing as many of the system apps and putting them in the play store.

With Microsoft, you have more than a couple of apps that were always bundled with the OS itself (Notepad is a big one) that is now directly available from the Microsoft Store. It seems every year more and more are de-coupled from the OS itself.

spapakons · Aug 9, 2023

The problem with a modular system is that not everyone would know how to add/remove modules and a novice would be limited to the basics or use third party applications. Also I wouldn't like the idea of being charged for every extra module. Now all bundled applications come for no extra cost.

johnlgalt · Aug 9, 2023

You don't get charged for Notepad now.

spapakons · Aug 9, 2023

johnlgalt said:
You don't get charged for Notepad now.

Thanks goodness. I use it a lot to keep notes.

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

spapakons said:
The problem with a modular system is that not everyone would know how to add/remove modules and a novice would be limited to the basics or use third party applications. Also I wouldn't like the idea of being charged for every extra module. Now all bundled applications come for no extra cost.

That may be true but it would be the exception these days. Even grandma and grandpa are using tablets these days. The exception only proves the rule. People don't like paying for what they don't need. The thrill of downloading and installing an ap on their device and personalizing it has always been a selling feature. This isn't really a new idea, but it has been tried and tested and is obviously successful or the Windows Store wouldn't still be a thing. The point about my modular idea is that it would make Windows operating systems more affordable to the public. The initial cost of an OS could be easily justified and the repeat business of ap sales make the reduction in the initial cost worthwhile for Windows. In fact, profit margins could actually be increased this way over time due to an increase in initial sales volume and in the repeat business of applications purchased by clients who want them.

*dawgone... Microsoft should hire me*

spapakons · Aug 9, 2023

Instead of a modular system, I would prefer all the features to be there but disabled. The user could then go at Applications and Features, Windows Features section and enable only the ones he needs. This way Windows would be light and fast by default. No missing features, just not enabled. The user can enable what features he needs any time. More sophisticated features would be locked and unlocked for a small extra.

TM21 · Aug 9, 2023

I once had a friend, who could not find a case big enough to suit him, so he wound up hanging all the components on his wall, and setting up a 20" box fan to blow on it. NO Case? No Problem! Without a case, his PC still ran just fine!

Right now, it's 94 degrees F, here in the room where I use my PC. This Gigabyte mobo doesn't seem to care. If I had a water cooler, it would be brewing coffee! Using a coffee pot as a cpu cooler, might even work!

Winuser · Aug 9, 2023

Scannerman said:
That may be true but it would be the exception these days. Even grandma and grandpa are using tablets these days. The exception only proves the rule. People don't like paying for what they don't need. The thrill of downloading and installing an ap on their device and personalizing it has always been a selling feature. This isn't really a new idea, but it has been tried and tested and is obviously successful or the Windows Store wouldn't still be a thing. The point about my modular idea is that it would make Windows operating systems more affordable to the public. The initial cost of an OS could be easily justified and the repeat business of ap sales make the reduction in the initial cost worthwhile for Windows. In fact, profit margins could actually be increased this way over time due to an increase in initial sales volume and in the repeat business of applications purchased by clients who want them.

*dawgone... Microsoft should hire me*

I have to disagree with most your post. The average computer user bought their computer with Windowsl already installed so there is no cost for the OS. The average user will use the preinstalled software. The thrill of downloading and installing apps isn't there. It only scares them. Why do you think that MS includes the programs and apps that they do? Why do you think MS is making it mandatory to use an MS account when setting up a new computer? They know that the average user doesn't know that they have a choice. The part that really ticks me off is the mandatory MS account when setting up a new computer. By doing this everyones User Folders are on OneDrive and there is a very limited amount of storage space. The average user dosen't know that their User Folders can be moved to a local drive and they don't have to be forced to pay MS for more storage space. I hope that MS is challenged in court and is forced to make OneDrive storge an option.

Winuser · Aug 9, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
I once had a friend, who could not find a case big enough to suit him, so he wound up hanging all the components on his wall, and setting up a 20" box fan to blow on it. NO Case? No Problem! Without a case, his PC still ran just fine!

Right now, it's 94 degrees F, here in the room where I use my PC. This Gigabyte mobo doesn't seem to care. If I had a water cooler, it would be brewing coffee! Using a coffee pot as a cpu cooler, might even work!

@94 degrees I wouldn't even be in the room, let alone running my computer. The only place that I use a computer that would get anywhere near that hot is in my shed. When it's to hot or to cold I stay in my house where the temps are controlled. I won't suffer and neither will my computers.

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Huh. I could have sworn I actually removed it and there is nothing underneath it - but you're right, plastic versus weight and plastic loses, so it must have the metal in it.

Lol! I considered the exact same mod, but later on I'm glad I did not go there.

You did what??

How could you mutilate such an awesome looking computer case?? (Says the guy who permanently removed the fan shroud so he could view the Q-Code logger through the fan without having to open the door.) Yes, the handle consists of a beam of metal which makes it so easy to run wire through as it can easily nest in the recess of the beam, or rail, or whatever it's called. I'm pretty sure the handle is riveted to the case but perhaps I'm mistaken. Unlike some people's kids, I left mine on.

As for not going there, well... You sure went a lot of other places! lol *Let's just tear off this appendage. We don't need it.*

Aaaw c'mon. Live a little. It's a driving experience dont'cha know. Vroom... vroom!

The SteelSeries Apx Pro keyboard has had many good reviews. It also comes with a steep price tag. Admittedly, I considered it but the way I burn out keyboards I'm probably better off with the Chinese knockoffs. There's not a keyboard in the world that's Scannerman proof. Just ask Justin Case. He knows.

johnlgalt said:
So, I got plenty of LED in my face lol. But I like it, as it gives me a nice visual indication of when I press a key (and certain keys give a slight different visual impulse) all in my peripheral vision (but also turn off aftger 5 minutes of no key presses).

So, there's that.

Yes, there is. And those LEDs serve a purpose. I have my num keys in violet, standard in green, and the rest in blue. Helps me orient when I'm half asleep at the keyboard. BTW.. Have you ever woken up at your desk with the keyboard imprinted on the side of your face? (Just curious. No need to ask why I asked.) As far as I know notepad was always bundled with the OS. My brain goes a little fuzzy when I have to think back to 95/98 but that's how I remember it. Anyway, I just thought Windows 12 might be due for a minimalist approach since most operating systems are geared to things like tablets these days. I haven't seen Microsoft come out with anything that resembles a real OS (IMO) since Win 7.

Scannerman · Aug 9, 2023

Winuser said:
I have to disagree with most your post. The average computer user bought their computer with Windowsl already installed so there is no cost for the OS. The average user will use the preinstalled software. The thrill of downloading and installing apps isn't there. It only scares them. Why do you think that MS includes the programs and apps that they do? Why do you think MS is making it mandatory to use an MS account when setting up a new computer? They know that the average user doesn't know that they have a choice. The part that really ticks me off is the mandatory MS account when setting up a new computer. By doing this everyones User Folders are on OneDrive and there is a very limited amount of storage space. The average user dosen't know that their User Folders can be moved to a local drive and they don't have to be forced to pay MS for more storage space. I hope that MS is challenged in court and is forced to make OneDrive storge an option.

This is grandma and grandpa thinking. Millennials know how to d-load apps and freely do so. My 85 year old aunt is afraid to download stuff and even she uses devices. MS includes the programs and aps that they do to hopefully make the OS more attractive (and more expensive). MS is trying to make it mandatory to use an MS account when setting up a new computer to get users to use the Windows store and people would use that store more if they got to pick and choose the aps they needed instead of being inundated with a bundle including many aps they likely won't even use. They should also know that clients love options and even the illusion of choice is a major selling point. Hey, I'm just tossing around some ideas here about Windows 12. The main feature would be the price and I'm quite sure the public could certainly relate to paying for an inexpensive OS with the option to upgrade via modules. They could even have the option of buying bundles that appeal to them. These days downloading and installing aps has never been easier. Microsoft needs to get with the future. This is standard proceedure in elementary schools today.

My suggestion also makes One Drive an option because the bare bones framework for the modular OS won't have it. I agree that what MS is doing right now with accounts is down right nasty and it removes the element of choice which is precisely the opposite of what I'm suggesting here. Yes, I agree that One Drive should definitely be a storage option in the strictest sense of the word.

johnlgalt · Aug 9, 2023

Scannerman said:
The SteelSeries Apx Pro keyboard has had many good reviews. It also comes with a steep price tag. Admittedly, I considered it but the way I burn out keyboards I'm probably better off with the Chinese knockoffs. There's not a keyboard in the world that's Scannerman proof. Just ask Justin Case. He knows.

I'm not hard on keyboards. And that one brought me the perfect balance of mechanical-style switches with electrically adjustable actuators, so I can turn it way high on, say, the caps lock, so it is not easy to enable (and I hit it all the time when not meaning to).

My last KB was the Logitech G-15 gen 2, and it lasted me almost 9 years. Technically it was still working when I built this machine, but it had a few weak spots, and I was ready for a change.

Scannerman said:
And those LEDs serve a purpose.

Bingo. Mine do a nice rainbow wave when nothing is pressed, and do a nice baby blue splash when a key is pressed, and the lock keys do a red splash.

Scannerman said:
Have you ever woken up at your desk with the keyboard imprinted on the side of your face? (Just curious. No need to ask why I asked.)

Many moons ago. Now, I can't sleep in my chair, though it is definitely comfortable for extended use.

Scannerman said:
As far as I know notepad was always bundled with the OS. My brain goes a little fuzzy when I have to think back to 95/98 but that's how I remember it.

Yes it has, but never before was it also available to install from elsewhere. Now it is.

Scannerman said:
MS is trying to make it mandatory to use an MS account when setting up a new computer to get users to use the Windows store and people would use that store more if they got to pick and choose the aps they needed instead of being inundated with a bundle including many aps they likely won't even use.

Except, of course, the apps it wants you to use. Like Phone Link.

Scannerman said:
The main feature would be the price and I'm quite sure the public could certainly relate to paying for an inexpensive OS with the option to upgrade via modules.

Nah, they're looking at subscription models instead.

The way things are going, Windows 365 is gonna be the norm in under 10 years. Subscription just like Office.

spapakons · Aug 10, 2023

Like when setting up a smartphone you are asked to create a Google account or an iCloud account, when installing Windows 11 you are asked for a Microsoft Account. Yes, it is rather annoying for all of us that are used to a local account in earlier Windows versions, but new users find it normal. And like in an Android phone you can bypass the user account and install your applications from APK files, in Windows 11 you can also bypass the Microsoft account and create a local account instead. One method is to type a fake Microsoft account, Windows won't be able to confirm it and offer you to create a local account. I have not tried it, so I cannot tell if it works every time. Another method is to press SHIFT+F10 to open a command prompt and type oobe\bypassnro command. This will make some changes and restart the computer. You will be asked your location and keyboard layout again but this time the hidden "I don't have an internet connection" option will be enabled at the network screen. So you click this and you are offered to create a local account. For these hacks to work you must be disconnected from the internet during the initial configuration.

That's it what this forum is for. To solve our issues and learn new tricks.

Wynona · Aug 10, 2023

Winuser said:
I'm almost 68 and I'm planning on buying a new desktop. I was thinking about doing it next year but I decided to hold off until the next version of Windows is released. If the next version is too restrictive I will stay with Windows 11 for as long as I can. I don't consider myself on borrowed time. I just look at it as being past the mid point of my life.

And I'm 85, and will buy new stuff when it comes out.

Age is just a number and mine's unlisted! Well, until I outed myeself.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Nah, they're looking at subscription models instead.

The way things are going, Windows 365 is gonna be the norm in under 10 years. Subscription just like Office.

If the price is right a subscription might not be such a bad deal.

Windows 12 ! Already....

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