Windows 12 ! Already....

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

Wynona said:
And I'm 85, and will buy new stuff when it comes out.

Age is just a number and mine's unlisted! Well, until I outed myeself.

Technically, we're all living on borrowed time anyway. Nobody knows when check out is until it comes. Even then, some check out before they even know their time is up. Aside from this, I have a question.

Are you afraid to download a program or to install it?

spapakons · Aug 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
If the price is right a subscription might not be such a bad deal.

In an Ideal World, subscription might not be too bad, but in real World we are always charged more than we should, so no thanks! I prefer a full bundled Windows version, no subscription for me. Besides if we already have a digital license for Windows 10 or 11, we shouldn't care about the cost! Hopefully we will be able to upgrade from 11 to 12 and activate it with our digital license FOR FREE.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

I'm also a writer so if it came with OFFICE and only cost $35.99 a year I'd only be too happy to pay.

spapakons · Aug 10, 2023

You can use the free bundled application WordPad for simple writing with formats and images. For enything more advanced and for professional use you have to buy or rent Office. Why put it in the price of Windows 12 when you can upgrade from Windows 11 to Windows 12 for free? Don't give them bad ideas please!

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

aaaw, C'mon. Those hard working boys at Microsoft need to make a living too!

Actually, I think my modular idea has merit. We can finally escape the annoyance of One Drive once and for all. Windows 12 Lite would give us the bare butt minimum for aps, would be ad free, would require less updates, would not need a plethora of bogus requirements, would not be a resource hog (at least not while it was running in bare bones mode) and still give the user the option of building it up if they wanted to. Everyone loves a smorgasbord!

spapakons · Aug 10, 2023

Sounds a lot like Linux. Sacrilege! I don't think Microsoft would ever doing it.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

Microsoft could stand to take a few tips from Linux.

Bree · Aug 10, 2023

Wynona said:
And I'm 85, and will buy new stuff when it comes out.
Age is just a number and mine's unlisted! Well, until I outed myeself.

Quite right. All this new tech, new OS's and new challenges just keeps the mind young and active.
I'm in my early 70's, still happily playing with Insider Beta, Dev and Canary builds

johnlgalt · Aug 10, 2023

Wynona said:
And I'm 85, and will buy new stuff when it comes out.

Age is just a number and mine's unlisted! Well, until I outed myeself.

I knew you were older from previous conversations at the other sites, but still, good on ya for still doing all that you do, especially with the classes for seniors that you conduct!

Scannerman said:
If the price is right a subscription might not be such a bad deal.

Uh, last I checked the Windows 365 (which is, arguably, aimed at corporations and enterprise, not private sector) was way more than you're thinking. Like 3 to 4 times more.

Scannerman said:
Technically, we're all living on borrowed time anyway. Nobody knows when check out is until it comes. Even then, some check out before they even know their time is up. Aside from this, I have a question.

Are you afraid to download a program or to install it?

LMFAO - no, she most certainly is not.

Scannerman said:
I'm also a writer so if it came with OFFICE and only cost $35.99 a year I'd only be too happy to pay.

I doubt they would even offer Windows 365 Starter edition for that price. I don't see it being less than $9.99 / month / $99 / year.

I may be wrong, and when they finally start rolling it out for the private sector, we;ll know more. But my gut says not gonna be that cheap.

Bree said:
Quite right. All this new tech, new OS's and new challenges just keeps the mind young and active.
I'm in my early 70's, still happily playing with Insider Beta, Dev and Canary builds

Indeed. While I'm a generation behind you (and 2 behind Wynona) this stuff does keep me young - if not young looking....lol

Bree · Aug 10, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Indeed. While I'm a generation behind you (and 2 behind Wynona) this stuff does keep me young - if not young looking....lol

Yeah, about your age I was getting bored and could feel my brain slowing down a gear. I had just the one Windows 7 laptop which I just used for browsing, boringly reliable and no real challenges left to keep my grey cells exercised.

Then it got the free upgrade to Windows 10 in August 2015 - boy was that some wake-up call! :lmao:

TM21 · Aug 10, 2023

Why buy something when you can get it for FREE? Office? What a piece of crap.
Open office or Libre Office either one can work just fine for 99.99% of users, and there is no fee, no lic, no keys and little to NO updates.
I dumped MS Office back at Office 2007, cleaned their crap out of the registry (30mb) and never looked back.
At that time, I had tested Wordperfect 8 and found it could do things that Office could not even do, so I got a copy and used that for many years, for all my correspondence. I guess I quit installing and using Wordperfect when I started using Open Office.
On my last Win-11 install, just for grins, I installed Libre Office, and I really like it. It runs my Excel spreadsheet, that I keep my car expenses on, just fine. And getting into it, and out of it, is a little quicker than Open Office.

Keyboards? I found this Mechanical, Lighted keyboard at a wholesale outlet, for $7.99 and it's exactly what I've been looking for. So, I bought four of them.
Those soft mushey keyboards just don't get it for me. I did a net search for the K-101 keyboard, and some places sell it as a Gaming Keyboard, for $100 or more. NOW, that's just a complete Rip Off. This one came with a little bag of replacement key swithes. Solder in, of course.
I've done key switch replacements on the big IBM keyboards but never on a home keyboard, although I've dissassembled and cleaned many of them.
@Winuser " @94 degrees I wouldn't even be in the room, let alone running my computer. The only place that I use a computer that would get anywhere near that hot is in my shed. When it's to hot or to cold I stay in my house where the temps are controlled. I won't suffer and neither will my computers."

I commiserate, but, What you don't understand is that my house is NOT air conditioned, and this room with my PC in it is the coolest room in the house. I just strip down to a comfort level and have fans to keep me cool. When it's 100 + outside, it will always be 90 something in here.
I do have a Window Air Conditioner that I could turn on, but then my Electric bill will go sky high.
For thousands of years, residents of this tropical peninsula have thrived without air conditioning, and I just figure I can too. Call me brave, or call me foolish, but I AM keeping my electric bill down to less than $75 per month, while I have neighbors who pay over $300 a month for their electricity. So who's the foolish one?

Do y'all have any clue, how much personal data that Google has on you?
I went digging lately, into the saved data at Google, when they sent me an email telling me that I had used up almost ALL of my free storage space.
I've had no clue, as to what all they save. But, then who does?
There were pic's and emails in there going back eons. So I spent several hours, digging through the old saved data, and deleting all that I could find. I'm sure I didn't get it all, but at least I made a dent in it.
So if you're a Google user, in any way, check it out, on just what they save, where you go on-line, what you look at, etc.
It can boggle one's mind!!!

Wynona · Aug 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
Technically, we're all living on borrowed time anyway. Nobody knows when check out is until it comes. Even then, some check out before they even know their time is up. Aside from this, I have a question.

Are you afraid to download a program or to install it?

Nope! I teach Windows 11 at our local Senior Activity Center. So, I teach downloading and installing along with pretty much everything Windows 11. Taught 'em Windows 10, and by vote, we moved to Windows 11 when it was released.

spapakons · Aug 10, 2023

After using the rather difficult Star Writer for MS DOS, I used WordPerfect 5.1 for MS DOS. Since Microsoft Word wasn't very well known back then, I also installed some version of WordPerfect Suite in Windows 95/98, don't remember which. Then I switched to Microsoft Office, first 97, and then every new version up to 2021.

Winuser · Aug 10, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
I commiserate, but, What you don't understand is that my house is NOT air conditioned, and this room with my PC in it is the coolest room in the house. I just strip down to a comfort level and have fans to keep me cool. When it's 100 + outside, it will always be 90 something in here.
I do have a Window Air Conditioner that I could turn on, but then my Electric bill will go sky high.
For thousands of years, residents of this tropical peninsula have thrived without air conditioning, and I just figure I can too. Call me brave, or call me foolish, but I AM keeping my electric bill down to less than $75 per month, while I have neighbors who pay over $300 a month for their electricity. So who's the foolish one?

I grew up without air conditioning so I do know what it's like. My job of more than 37 years required me working outside no matter what the weather was. Part of the perks of being a Public Works employee. I retired in 2010 and was asked to come back to work part time mowing grass. I work in the heat but I refuse to live in a hot house and use only fans to cool off. I'll turn everything off that I can, hang our laundry outside and skip a meal or two before I set in a house that's over 90 degrees.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Uh, last I checked the Windows 365 (which is, arguably, aimed at corporations and enterprise, not private sector) was way more than you're thinking. Like 3 to 4 times more.

LMFAO - no, she most certainly is not.

I doubt they would even offer Windows 365 Starter edition for that price. I don't see it being less than $9.99 / month / $99 / year.

I may be wrong, and when they finally start rolling it out for the private sector, we;ll know more. But my gut says not gonna be that cheap.

Indeed. While I'm a generation behind you (and 2 behind Wynona) this stuff does keep me young - if not young looking....lol

My dear friend, one can always dream can one not? I mean consider computer costs in the past for mere megabytes.
Programs (aps) have gotten cheaper too. Software is becoming more affordable. Who knows?
Your gut is likely right on the mark and I'm just playing the eternal optimist but hey, it was only a ball park figure.

I'm a Baby Boomer but I'm also a Joneser and we Jonesers are quite distinct from other generational groups. We are kids that grew up in the 60's but hardly remember the 50's (some of us didn't even exist in the 50's). Jonesers tend to be cursed with idealism and are given to altruism despite all their dedicated efforts to remain skeptical. Perhaps that might be one reason I'm married to a Xenial. She's a skeptic striving to be optimistic.

Nothing works like balance.

Wynona (also one of my daughter's names) and the Wizard (sounds like a book title) are from the Silent Generation. They are true survivors and pretty much capable of tackling everything and anything. Society today could stand to benefit from a few extra doses of that spirit. Now there is a reason I asked Wynona if she was afraid to download and install programs. I was informed here that people are afraid to do this and I'm wondering what generation of people might have this issue. Grandma and Grandpa come to mind but, even people old enough to be my grand parents, people like my aunt, are using devices these days. I don't think that people in general are afraid of downloading aps and installing them anymore.
Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but the exception only proves the rule.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

Wynona said:
Nope! I teach Windows 11 at our local Senior Activity Center. So, I teach downloading and installing along with pretty much everything Windows 11. Taught 'em Windows 10, and by vote, we moved to Windows 11 when it was released.

Thank you for answering my question. I rather thought it would be in the negative. I also think what you're doing is fabulous!

Futurdreamz · Aug 10, 2023

I don't consider it likely that Windows would go subscription - only, as many many users would refuse to upgrade from the last permanent license OS. Plus linux is getting pretty viable. I was running Zorin OS for a month or so and it is perfectly good OS that has done a lot of work to be user friendly and make things like running Windows games a snap. If you prefer Fedora-based OSs there is Nobara, but it's a bit more rough. I ended up switching back to Windows as I actually take advantage of the online Microsoft cloud services and Microsoft 365. But if forced I could migrate away pretty easily.

What I would expect Microsoft to do with this cloud Windows thing is to rely on a form of X11 forwarding, where the application is installed and runs on a server elsewhere but is rendered and displayed on your computer. So you could have a fairly lightweight computer but can still run Blender or other intensive apps, as they run on more powerful hardware you subscribe to. Or companies or individuals could set up their own servers for these apps.

Microsoft might choose to make a free Windows Lite or Edge OS that strips out all legacy application support, meaning only PWAs and maybe some highly restricted API access. Worst case scenario is one where disabling S mode requires a subscription

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
Why buy something when you can get it for FREE? Office? What a piece of crap.
Open office or Libre Office either one can work just fine for 99.99% of users, and there is no fee, no lic, no keys and little to NO updates.
I dumped MS Office back at Office 2007, cleaned their crap out of the registry (30mb) and never looked back.
At that time, I had tested Wordperfect 8 and found it could do things that Office could not even do, so I got a copy and used that for many years, for all my correspondence. I guess I quit installing and using Wordperfect when I started using Open Office.
On my last Win-11 install, just for grins, I installed Libre Office, and I really like it. It runs my Excel spreadsheet, that I keep my car expenses on, just fine. And getting into it, and out of it, is a little quicker than Open Office.

Keyboards? I found this Mechanical, Lighted keyboard at a wholesale outlet, for $7.99 and it's exactly what I've been looking for. So, I bought four of them.
Those soft mushey keyboards just don't get it for me. I did a net search for the K-101 keyboard, and some places sell it as a Gaming Keyboard, for $100 or more. NOW, that's just a complete Rip Off. This one came with a little bag of replacement key swithes. Solder in, of course.
I've done key switch replacements on the big IBM keyboards but never on a home keyboard, although I've dissassembled and cleaned many of them.
@Winuser " @94 degrees I wouldn't even be in the room, let alone running my computer. The only place that I use a computer that would get anywhere near that hot is in my shed. When it's to hot or to cold I stay in my house where the temps are controlled. I won't suffer and neither will my computers."

I commiserate, but, What you don't understand is that my house is NOT air conditioned, and this room with my PC in it is the coolest room in the house. I just strip down to a comfort level and have fans to keep me cool. When it's 100 + outside, it will always be 90 something in here.
I do have a Window Air Conditioner that I could turn on, but then my Electric bill will go sky high.
For thousands of years, residents of this tropical peninsula have thrived without air conditioning, and I just figure I can too. Call me brave, or call me foolish, but I AM keeping my electric bill down to less than $75 per month, while I have neighbors who pay over $300 a month for their electricity. So who's the foolish one?

Do y'all have any clue, how much personal data that Google has on you?
I went digging lately, into the saved data at Google, when they sent me an email telling me that I had used up almost ALL of my free storage space.
I've had no clue, as to what all they save. But, then who does?
There were pic's and emails in there going back eons. So I spent several hours, digging through the old saved data, and deleting all that I could find. I'm sure I didn't get it all, but at least I made a dent in it.
So if you're a Google user, in any way, check it out, on just what they save, where you go on-line, what you look at, etc.
It can boggle one's mind!!!

Says the Wizard.

Well, for one thing there are characters in Word (Office) that only Word (Office) can emulate, such as BST Hebrew and BST Greek, which many of my manuscripts use. (Please don't ask. I don't want to get into long explanations about why I'm writing in Greek and Hebrew.) Yes, I'm paying for it now but I'm stuck with it. I'm also accustomed to using Office.

Mechanical keyboards have also come down in price and I'm using a rather impressive mechanical keyboard that just might be Scannerman proof. So far it has lasted me two years despite the coffee spills and basement dust and mishaps that typify an uncoordinated old man. It's purdee, the keys are colour coded, and the colours are indicative of function. I've also disassembled and rebuilt keyboards. I try to avoid doing this as much as possible.

I live in the north land where the weather keeps you real. One day it can be 85 above F and the next it can be a balmy 52 in the dead of summer. We have to stay flexible up this way. A couple of years ago we actually reached 120 in the shade. I saw the thermometer myself. Fortunately, it only lasted a couple of hours. Death Valley in the Great White North! We're a family of five here, and we have a dishwasher and at least half a dozen PCs running full bore all the time. So, yeah, I'm paying double what you're paying in US dollars. She-who-must-be-obeyed insisted on my getting an air conditioner so I complied. What a power hog that thing is! Now if it were just me here things would be different but my PCs never get too hot because my computer room is in the basement. Even on a warm day my CPU will hover at around 52° C in full use and we're talking about an over clocked chip here.

I am not a GOOGLE user per se. I use Start Page and on occasion I'll use Duck-Duck-Go. Alas, I do use YouTube. I've lied to GOOGLE about my age and a ton of personal information because my personal information is NONE OF THEIR BIZZNIZ. If everyone did this GOOGLE would have quite the statistics, eh?

So as far as GOOGLE is concerned I'm a 21 year old African American born on the 4th of July with two wives, ten children, and I live on a houseboat. Hey, we're all entitled to our fantasies.

johnlgalt · Aug 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
My dear friend, one can always dream can one not?

Pipe dreams, man. Pipe dreams.

Scannerman said:
I mean consider computer costs in the past for mere megabytes.

But we don't build by the megabyte, now, we build by the gigabyte.

RAM is in GB, 4 being probably what I would consider bare minimum for a modern computer.
Storage is in GB, with 1000 GB (1 TB) being the norm for storage, and 256 GB (or even 512) being the normal for boot drives.
And most systems that still come with an optical drive have, at the very least, DVD drives, which starts at 4.7 GB.

But if you take that tack, then you have to realize that today's software is probably billions of times more code then the software of the days when we were paying by the MB. And that's not even touching upon all of the things it can do.

Futurdreamz said:
What I would expect Microsoft to do with this cloud Windows thing is to rely on a form of X11 forwarding, where the application is installed and runs on a server elsewhere but is rendered and displayed on your computer. So you could have a fairly lightweight computer but can still run Blender or other intensive apps, as they run on more powerful hardware you subscribe to. Or companies or individuals could set up their own servers for these apps.

That hardware where Blender runs, for example? It ain't cheap. And neither is the bandwidth required to transfer just the image renders of the OS interface back and forth. Both of those together require maintenance, too. It's not a one time thing and it's done for life - like any of the computers we use.

Futurdreamz said:
Microsoft might choose to make a free Windows Lite or Edge OS that strips out all legacy application support, meaning only PWAs and maybe some highly restricted API access. Worst case scenario is one where disabling S mode requires a subscription

If they do, it would be a direct competitor for ChromeOS. But I doubt Microsoft is heading in that direction.

They want users to use robust OSs, not pared down net interfaces.

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

Futurdreamz said:
I don't consider it likely that Windows would go subscription - only, as many many users would refuse to upgrade from the last permanent license OS. Plus linux is getting pretty viable. I was running Zorin OS for a month or so and it is perfectly good OS that has done a lot of work to be user friendly and make things like running Windows games a snap. If you prefer Fedora-based OSs there is Nobara, but it's a bit more rough. I ended up switching back to Windows as I actually take advantage of the online Microsoft cloud services and Microsoft 365. But if forced I could migrate away pretty easily.

What I would expect Microsoft to do with this cloud Windows thing is to rely on a form of X11 forwarding, where the application is installed and runs on a server elsewhere but is rendered and displayed on your computer. So you could have a fairly lightweight computer but can still run Blender or other intensive apps, as they run on more powerful hardware you subscribe to. Or companies or individuals could set up their own servers for these apps.

Microsoft might choose to make a free Windows Lite or Edge OS that strips out all legacy application support, meaning only PWAs and maybe some highly restricted API access. Worst case scenario is one where disabling S mode requires a subscription

We don't talk about S mode. :::shudders::: I have to say I agree. Linux has been making advances in leaps and bounds and I'm using Windows for many of the same reasons you are. (Although, I despise One Drive.) I keep on forgetting I'm not typing on the Windows 12 Forum but I really do think Windows Lite is a concept that has met its time. People really do like to pick and choose for themselves and so much of the old bloatware curse could be circumvented this way. Now I'm more of a Ubuntu guy myself, having been baptized in Windows, and I prefer Mint; but there are a ton of distros out there that are suited to whatever niche one feels comfortable using. I really like this idea of yours: a free MS OS. Wouldn't that be something? My only stipulation on using it would be that it didn't kill my Linux boot. I'm so fed up with fighting for this and I am so done with TPM requirements.

Windows 12 ! Already....

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