Windows 12 ! Already....

Scannerman · Aug 10, 2023

spapakons said:
After using the rather difficult Star Writer for MS DOS, I used WordPerfect 5.1 for MS DOS. Since Microsoft Word wasn't very well known back then, I also installed some version of WordPerfect Suite in Windows 95/98, don't remember which. Then I switched to Microsoft Office, first 97, and then every new version up to 2021.

There really is something about Microsoft Word that the others just don't have.

johnlgalt · Aug 10, 2023

WordStar FTW, before I went to WordPerfect.

I only started using Word after Microsoft rebranded their suite as Microsoft Office 2003. But I've been an Office user since.

Winuser · Aug 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
Now there is a reason I asked Wynona if she was afraid to download and install programs. I was informed here that people are afraid to do this and I'm wondering what generation of people might have this issue. Grandma and Grandpa come to mind but, even people old enough to be my grand parents, people like my aunt, are using devices these days. I don't think that people in general are afraid of downloading aps and installing them anymore.

HmmmI I bet the person that said that will stay with what they posted. As for what generations? The same generations that will click on anything, get conned into turning over control of their computers, send gift cards or Bit Coins to get someone they know out of trouble and give away their personal info.

TraderGary · Aug 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
There really is something about Microsoft Word that the others just don't have.

Agree! I've been a Microsoft Office user since 1990. Today I subscribe to Microsoft 365 for the full Office Suite and, of course, for the Terabyte of Microsoft OneDrive. I'm a heavy user of Word, Excel, Outlook, and OneNote. I've been a OneDrive user since 2007.

Scannerman · Aug 11, 2023

Winuser said:
HmmmI I bet the person that said that will stay with what they posted. As for what generations? The same generations that will click on anything, get conned into turning over control of their computers, send gift cards or Bit Coins to get someone they know out of trouble and give away their personal info.

Aaah, you mean the "uninitiated". Wow. We really are talking exceptions here. Well, they exist and indubitably there is a market in finding suckers as P.T. Barnum would remind us. That aside, as a rule, most people who are PC users are not afraid to download and install an ap — especially aps recommended by Microsoft in the Windows Store. Here, in Canada, you would be hard-pressed to find an elementary school student that did not know how to do this. (Mine could do it when they were 5 years old but again, we are not talking exceptions.)

At the turn of the Millennium there were a lot of people terrified of downloading and installing applications. There were also a lot of people who were still uninitiated. (I don't want to say 'computer illiterate' because IMO I am also 'computer illiterate'.) A lot has changed in 20 years. (Or, 23 years. Or...) The time has come. Microsoft has been talking around this subscription idea for quite the while and yes, they even stuck their big toe in the water by making brash announcements that they seem to have retracted. To be true, they're only testing the waters. Whether we like it or not subscriptions do make sense. The real challenge MS has is to make it affordable and convenient. . . And appealing. For the time being, it is appalling.

Admittedly, I probably would not be speaking so boldly if I were not also a Linux user. If Windows got too expensive I could always switch to Linux and learn how NOT to be computer illiterate. But let's at least be honest: Most people using Windows are still riding their proverbial bicycles with the training wheels on. Most of us, including myself, couldn't even write a line of code if our lives depended on it. I salute those who can because they are definitely NOT computer illiterate. They know how to speak the language of numbers.

Scannerman · Aug 11, 2023

johnlgalt said:
WordStar FTW, before I went to WordPerfect.

I only started using Word after Microsoft rebranded their suite as Microsoft Office 2003. But I've been an Office user since.

I remember when they did that.

lol I wasn't a happy camper. Can't even remember the details about why I was so annoyed.

I'm guessing you must be a late Gen X or a Millennial, John. Most Antidisestablishmentarianists are, I find.

Me, I just want to be a non-conformist like everybody else.

spapakons · Aug 11, 2023

I don't think people are afraid to download applications, but they are afraid to be charged for previously FREE modules. If Windows 12 will be modular, this means that we won't be able to upgrade from Windows 11 (full version) to Windows 12 (modular). This means that we would all be forced to do a clean installation which is not convenient for most of us with tons of data to backup and tons if applications to reinstall. The alternative would be that all respective modules are installed automatically in order to upgrade and we would be charged for all of them in order to activate Windows irrespective if we need them or not. Of course you realize the final cost would be larger than buying the full version in the first place! A third alternative would be that all extra modules would be deactivated after the upgrade from Windows 11 to 12 and we would have to pay separately for each one we want to activate. This would also be inconvenient and more expensive than buying the full version.

So please refrain from your modular Windows idea, as I already said, don't give them bad ideas!

Also I don't understand why are you so much concerned about Windows 12 cost! Are you going to buy a licence for it? As long as I can upgrade for free from Windows 11 to 12, I couldn't care less about the Windows 12 license price. Even if I had Windows 10 l would upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 for free and then from Windows 11 to 12 for free. So who gives a damn about the cost of the license? Under these circumstances I prefer the full bundled version of Windows 12, not a modular system. I have the experience to disable components and make it as light as I want. The extra features will be standby any time I need them at no extra cost.

Regarding OneDrive, just disable it or configure it not to backup all your personal files so it doesn't get out of space.

johnlgalt · Aug 11, 2023

lol. Not worried about price, but worried about clean installation times.

Backups exist for a reason. I do 2-3 clean installs a year. I'm never down a full day, ever.

johnlgalt · Aug 11, 2023

Scannerman said:
I remember when they did that.

lol I wasn't a happy camper. Can't even remember the details about why I was so annoyed.

I'm guessing you must be a late Gen X or a Millennial, John. Most Antidisestablishmentarianists are, I find.

Me, I just want to be a non-conformist like everybody else.

I refused to install Works, which I believe is where Word started. I may be wrong, but that is what I remember.

Born in '71, so Gen-X, I think. I don't keep up with all that. I know I'm not a millennial. Lol.

I use the Antidisestablishmentarianist as a moniker, nothing more.

I'm young enough to know better and old enough to not care anymore.

Wynona · Aug 11, 2023

@johnlgalt

Microsoft Word, word-processor software launched in 1983 by the Microsoft Corporation. Software developers Richard Brodie and Charles Simonyi joined the Microsoft team in 1981, and in 1983 they released Multi-Tool Word for computers that ran a version of the UNIX operating system (OS). Later that year, the program was rewritten to run on personal computers (PCs), such as the IBM PC, under Microsoft’s version of DOS (disk operating system), or MS-DOS, and was renamed Microsoft Word. The product was in direct competition with WordPerfect and WordStar, both of which were introduced for PCs in 1982.

Like WordStar, Word was WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get), meaning that formatting tags were hidden and whatever a document looked like on a user’s computer screen was how it would look when printed—or at least semi-WYSIWYG, as screen fonts were not of the same quality as printer fonts. Microsoft’s program was the first to make extensive use of the computer mouse to display styles on-screen (italic, bold, and underlined text), and to feature style sheets and multiple windows (i.e., separate work spaces for editing multiple documents). Version 2.0, released in 1985, included spell-check and word-count options; subsequent versions included significant upgrades and improvements. In 1989 Microsoft released the first version of Word for the Windows OS, two years ahead of WordPerfect for Windows.

To effectively compete with WordPerfect, Microsoft Word needed a standard interface across multiple platforms. In 1985 Microsoft released Macintosh Word 1.0, and its early Macintosh versions were adapted directly from Microsoft Word for DOS. To combat the ensuing glitches and incompatibility concerns, Microsoft began to develop original code for the Word for Macintosh software in the 1990s. In 2003 both the Windows and Macintosh versions were renamed Microsoft Office Word to align with the Microsoft Office suite, which is built around Word, Excel (a spreadsheet program), and PowerPoint (a visual presentation program).

Throughout the 1980s WordPerfect ranked as the most popular word-processing software on PCs, but since the 1990s Microsoft Word has become the leading word processor for both Windows and Macintosh users. In that decade, Word had very little competition, though there were budget-friendly options available such as OpenOffice. In the 21st century, Word has received some competition from companies such as Google. Microsoft has responded to this by introducing a cloud-based version of Word. Office 365, the full suite of products by Microsoft, still controls 65 percent of the office software market globally.

johnlgalt · Aug 11, 2023

Ahh, thank you, I was mis-remembering then.

I looked it up, according to Wikipedia, Works had its own word processor but was made to work with Microsoft Word documents, so perhaps that is what I remember.

antspants · Aug 11, 2023

Winuser said:
If the user doesn't know how to or even that they can move their User Folders to a local drive

It only took one fail of windows to teach me that a seperate local drive was the only way to go. I believe it was Windows Millennium

antspants · Aug 11, 2023

Scannerman said:
Me, I just want to be a non-conformist like everybody else.

Actually, I’m a Naturist.

TM21 · Aug 11, 2023

Boy, I feel like I just stepped into a fifth grade history class.
Now children, this is how we build a Flip Flop, an AND gate and a NAND gate. Yes, I had to know how to build all those computer circuits with discrete components. (resistors, diodes, Transistors and capacitors) I grew up building crystal radios and selling them to my High School friends.
At just 14, I took a home study course in Electronics, from DeVry Tech.

I used to write my own test routines in an NCR 399 computer, in ones and zeros. I think that they called that Machine language.
My Hero is Steve Gibson, who writes his software in Machine Language. I love his "Decombobulator"!

I might tweak and tune the heck out of Windows xx but I don't write those routines, I leave that to someone smarter than me.
I gave up re-writing an operating system with the Commodore 64.

Before I got Wordperfect 8, years ago, I wrote everything, letters, signs, etc. in Wordpad. I still keep a shortcut to that on my Task Bar today, for any quick note that I might need to type.

When I install a new version of Windows, I don't have to download any software. I have every program I need, and all my setup routines, on a single Flash Drive. All my data files are on another Flash Drive. I try to do everything I can, using the old KISS method.

It just seems to this old Tech, that way too many people Enjoy doing everything the most complex and difficult way possible. Ergo their 12 step program for installing Windows. But my whole life has been dedicated to simplifying every process I come in contact with.
I've saved my employeers Millions of $'s over the years, by developing simpler ways of doing things, but only occasionally even got an Atta Boy.

Old guys do have a tendency to ramble on, don't they?

TM

antspants · Aug 11, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
Old guys do have a tendency to ramble on, don't they?

It’s OK old timer, people generally respect their elders and can identify the onset of senility. But don’t worry about what we think, you’re your biggest fan.

Scannerman · Aug 12, 2023

antspants said:
It only took one fail of windows to teach me that a seperate local drive was the only way to go. I believe it was Windows Millennium

That was the first Windows OS I used on my first purchase of a Windows PC. Before that I used my boss's PC and he had Win 98.
Mistake Edition was a great OS to learn on. You learned everything an OS shouldn't do.

Scannerman · Aug 12, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
Boy, I feel like I just stepped into a fifth grade history class.
Now children, this is how we build a Flip Flop, an AND gate and a NAND gate. Yes, I had to know how to build all those computer circuits with discrete components. (resistors, diodes, Transistors and capacitors) I grew up building crystal radios and selling them to my High School friends.
At just 14, I took a home study course in Electronics, from DeVry Tech.

I used to write my own test routines in an NCR 399 computer, in ones and zeros. I think that they called that Machine language.
My Hero is Steve Gibson, who writes his software in Machine Language. I love his "Decombobulator"!

I might tweak and tune the heck out of Windows xx but I don't write those routines, I leave that to someone smarter than me.
I gave up re-writing an operating system with the Commodore 64.

Before I got Wordperfect 8, years ago, I wrote everything, letters, signs, etc. in Wordpad. I still keep a shortcut to that on my Task Bar today, for any quick note that I might need to type.

When I install a new version of Windows, I don't have to download any software. I have every program I need, and all my setup routines, on a single Flash Drive. All my data files are on another Flash Drive. I try to do everything I can, using the old KISS method.

It just seems to this old Tech, that way too many people Enjoy doing everything the most complex and difficult way possible. Ergo their 12 step program for installing Windows. But my whole life has been dedicated to simplifying every process I come in contact with.
I've saved my employeers Millions of $'s over the years, by developing simpler ways of doing things, but only occasionally even got an Atta Boy.

Old guys do have a tendency to ramble on, don't they?

TM

Aaaah, the days of crystal radios! I still have a package of diodes handy in case I get in the mood to make another. I also remember the days of side band radio, linear amplifiers, Yaesus, and VFOs. I used to love dx'ing when those Northern Lights were up out at the cabin on our Moon Raker. :::sigh::: The good ole daze. Ramble away, I'm on your heels.

TraderGary · Aug 12, 2023

Scannerman said:
Aaaah, the days of crystal radios! I still have a package of diodes handy in case I get in the mood to make another. I also remember the days of side band radio, linear amplifiers, Yaesus, and VFOs. I used to love dx'ing when those Northern Lights were up out at the cabin on our Moon Raker. :::sigh::: The good ole daze. Ramble away, I'm on your heels.

What memories. I got my ham radio license at 13 and couldn't get enough of learning about radio. I was glued to W1AW every night for code practice. It was the "in" technology of the day for nerds. Today I'm licensed as W9VJ Extra Class.

Futurdreamz · Aug 13, 2023

Scannerman said:
We don't talk about S mode. :::shudders::: I have to say I agree. Linux has been making advances in leaps and bounds and I'm using Windows for many of the same reasons you are. (Although, I despise One Drive.) I keep on forgetting I'm not typing on the Windows 12 Forum but I really do think Windows Lite is a concept that has met its time. People really do like to pick and choose for themselves and so much of the old bloatware curse could be circumvented this way. Now I'm more of a Ubuntu guy myself, having been baptized in Windows, and I prefer Mint; but there are a ton of distros out there that are suited to whatever niche one feels comfortable using. I really like this idea of yours: a free MS OS. Wouldn't that be something? My only stipulation on using it would be that it didn't kill my Linux boot. I'm so fed up with fighting for this and I am so done with TPM requirements.

Honestly the only reason WHY there are so many distros is because the developers behind the GNOME desktop environment are extremely difficult and refuse to add badly needed features and capabilities.
Generally think of Linux like Windows 3.1 and DOS, where the Windows graphical interface and the DOS core are generally separate things.
Debian, Fedora, and Archlinux are the three main cores, distinguished by how installing applications work. Ubuntu is based on Debian but offers more proprietary customizations to be more user friendly.
GNOME is the graphical interface. You can install it on any of these cores and they will generally look and feel the same with the same GUI programs available. It's generally the default, but it's cumbersome and clunky and not really advised.
KDE's Plasma is a completely different interface, well known for being more familiar to Windows users and being highly customizable and efficient it. Most cores will offer it as an option, such as Kubuntu or Fedora KDE Spin. Because Plasma is not based on GNOME, some applications don't run as well on it
Then you have more derivatives, which are generally a fork of both the Ubuntu core and the GNOME interface in a single package, adding features and abilities to GNOME that make things much better. That would be like Elementary OS, Linux Mint, Pop! OS, and Zorin OS.

Which leads to a rather complicated list of recommendations, solely because the most user friendly core (Ubuntu) defaults to a really really terrible interface (Gnome). Elementary OS, Linux Mint, Pop! OS, Zorin OS, and Kubuntu are all recommended OSs, but with slight nuances that would make one or another better in any situation. This would collapse to one Distro if Ubuntu wsitched it's default desk enviroment, but it tried it once with Unity to emulate Windows 8 and it didn't go great. Generally I find that Zorin OS tries to find a balance between being flexible and user friendly, and offers combined app packages for running Windows apps and games on it.

One thing i would wonder is, if Microsoft chose to create a Edge OS or Windows Lite free, would Microsoft consider porting it's app services like office and onedrive to linux? Even if they stay as proprietary tarballs.

Scannerman · Aug 13, 2023

Futurdreamz said:
One thing i would wonder is, if Microsoft chose to create a Edge OS or Windows Lite free, would Microsoft consider porting it's app services like office and onedrive to linux? Even if they stay as proprietary tarballs.

Short answer: Probably not.

Windows 12 ! Already....

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