24H2 - Very large hanging/system lag when opening programs on modern PC.

Almighty1 said:

I can't use one mainly for caching because it only allows one SSD as it has only one slot on the notebook motherboard, this is a Dell XPS 15 9570 notebook, it doesn't even support more than one drive. I would probably buy a new computer with current specs first as 61% is after using it for almost 5 years so it's not a big issue as I am not installing anything new on it. A majority of the space is taken by things like Windows Subsystem for Linux, Windows Subsystem for Android and Hyper V which is running the Windows Canary Insiders Build. So even if I cloned the drive to a newer one, it will still be a single newer drive. In my older machines, I replaced the spindles which were a pair of WD Black 500GB with a pair of SanDisk Pro 2.5" 2TB SSD's but even those drives were slow compared to this.

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I see.... horrible cooling and same goes for supporting only 1 SSD. Even changing the thermal paste dropped the temperatures only by around 5*C. Only thing that helped (kinda, since it comes at a cost) - undervolting + setting the Max CPU frequency to 2600 Mhz (a TurboBoost/OC of only 400 Mhz). Lower performance for that CPU - "but constant" - which was still better than dealing with aggressive throttling while reaching triggering temps.

Laptops=You need an external fan for blowing air into the bottom vents! That's where the CPU fan gets the air!

neves said:

Datasheets are nice (: quite useful as referral - when selling a products with a high millage). But was talking from experience: close to 50% - some SSDs proved to be hit or miss (supposedly more recent models - are doing better - improved in one way or the other). As for brand - mostly Samsung and, yeah... sounded a lot better on paper (even the most praised brand). Close to 4 years went down to 58% (summer time) - so was pretty sure it would last at least 2 more years, yet... by December (when needed the most) - it started failing in a weird way corrupting even a big part of the backed-up data. Again, that was older SSD tech too so.... who knows - but pain/trauma can be a good teacher - so i prefer not to risk it with important data (better safe than sorry). Used as cache, for downloads and temporary files - is still good enough for me (be if it last 5 more years or just 1 - at least i won't be worried in all that time). But hey, that's just me (: you do you).

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Not sure about NVMe types but the pair of Samsung 2TB 980 Pro's I had in the 2.5", I only actually used one of them and there were errors after 1 year or so. Specs on paper means nothing as it's when they tested it in the lab and not in the real world where it's YMMV. I wonder if Kingston's are good or not since that was what was in the Acer Aspire 3 machine I just returned which was also 1TB.

neves said:

I see.... horrible cooling and same goes for supporting only 1 SSD. Even changing the thermal paste dropped the temperatures only by around 5*C. Only thing that helped (kinda, since it comes at a cost) - undervolting + setting the Max CPU frequency to 2600 Mhz (a TurboBoost/OC of only 400 Mhz). Lower performance for that CPU - "but constant" - which was still better than dealing with aggressive throttling while reaching triggering temps.

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Yep, Dell XPS 15 seems to have a pretty poor thermal design in all their models. This machine was free so can't complain too much. I an using HoneyWell PTM7950 Phase Change Thermal Pad, the same thing the use in the Lenovo Gaming laptops and my temps went from 98C-100C down to 58C at the lowest or it used to when I first put it in two months ago but that could be the two pens I used on each side to lift the rear of the machine up so air can get in and in the 80C's most of the time. Undervolting does not work when one is also using Hyper-V as the MSR registers are blocked. I'm running with the Ultimate Performance Power Profile.

RJARRRPCGP said:

Laptops=You need an external fan for blowing air into the bottom vents! That's where the CPU fan gets the air!

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Not if only 20% of the vents are actually opened, where each fan is. The middle section is solid plastic and have no air that can get into them. Perhaps they did that on purpose so the fans can draw air in a suction like manner versus air from all over the place on the bottom.

Almighty1 said:

Yep, Dell XPS 15 seems to have a pretty poor thermal design in all their models. This machine was free so can't complain too much. I an using HoneyWell PTM7950 Phase Change Thermal Pad, the same thing the use in the Lenovo Gaming laptops and my temps went from 98C-100C down to 58C at the lowest or it used to when I first put it in two months ago but that could be the two pens I used on each side to lift the rear of the machine up so air can get in and in the 80C's most of the time. Undervolting does not work when one is also using Hyper-V as the MSR registers are blocked. I'm running with the Ultimate Performance Power Profile.

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Temperature Wise - Dell XPS using i7/i9 from 8th -> 11th Gen were some of the worst models on the market - especially since they were sold at Premium prices (2x or even 3x higher compared to models from other brands - while having similar specs "except for the Display"). Barely used - and the owners struggled to sell them at less than half the price with 2 Years Warranty. Then again, i left that type of work behind - around the time Intel released 12th gen - so, not really sure how much they improved after that. Indeed, Undervolting was problematic - cause of BIOS updates intended for Plundervolt (worked before apply the latest BIOS). But there was way to edit the BIOS and revert that change.

How old was the laptop - when you changed the paste and in what state was the past and fans?!

Kept hearing good things about this PTM7950 - but the only one selling them where i lived - had a scamming price of around 40$ (at that price - could buy enough paste to repaste 10x systems). On Aliexpress are like 4$ - but what if they send me napkins?! 40*C - 30*C temp drops is a lot. Only time i've seen such results - the laptops in question had clogged fans and dry paste - after years of use. The Dell XPS i mentioned in my previous post - was barely 2 months old - the fans in pristine condition and the paste was actually more than necessary - but switched it anyway with Arctic MX-4. Around 5*C drop - and not even sure if it's cause of the past - or simply because Dell's employees exaggerated with the quantity....

@neves - No problems with undervolt even with the latest version of the BIOS as all one needs to do is load Factory defaults after updating. You are right the display was probably the only good thing. LOL.

Well, the machine was bought on May 4, 2019 and I think the first time I changed the paste after it was slow was on July 20, 2021. I replaced the fans and keyboard in June 2024, the thermal paste I used was the Honeywell PTM7950. Machine was extremely slow the past 2 days as the outside temps were hitting 100F and I don't have AC here. The PTM7950 I used may be fake but the current one is from LTT store at https://www.lttstore.com/products/ptm7950-phase-change-thermal-pad?_pos=1&_psq=PTM7050&_ss=e&_v=1.0 and they no longer have it in stock for a few months... The other thing is that I didn't exactly apply the PTM7950 correctly as it kept peeling so on the last attempt, I borrowed pieces from the one that got torn and just put it in the empty spots and it performed well so I just left it that way. LOL.

I didn't know what else to use because there is the Pump Out issue as I have used SYY and it was fine for a month and then the temperatures were high again.

I wonder what thermal paste did Dell use in the XPS 15's.

Almighty1 said:

I wonder what thermal paste did Dell use in the XPS 15's.

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If it had a whitish color - that's probably something like Arctic Silver Ceramique 2, if greyish - then could be anything under the Sun (depends who the factory managers - made contract with). Depends on region too, since Dell is a big corporation - when in high demand - they split the production between different factories (that's who applies the paste - some going for cheaper - while others seem to care more about quality). Only warranty related stuff - is handled by the closest service company/firm representing Dell (each country has their own).

neves said:

If it had a whitish color - that's probably something like Arctic Silver Ceramique 2, if greyish - then could be anything under the Sun (depends who the factory managers - made contract with). Depends on region too, since Dell is a big corporation - when in high demand - they split the production between different factories (that's who applies the paste - some going for cheaper - while others seem to care more about quality). Only warranty related stuff - is handled by the closest service company/firm representing Dell (each country has their own).

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Hmmm, no idea what color it was. I know for desktop XPS's back in the 1990's, they did use Shin Etsu. This was the first time I opened the machine in July 2021 but I don't have a photo with the original thermal paste used, only the SYY-157 I used but even this one only lasted for a month or so before the paste pumped out...




Dell machines are usually made by either Quanta or Compal. I just knew the original thermal paste seems to last longer than the ones people buy. But anyways, I am getting the 50C's temps again despite the outside temperature hitting at 100F from the normal under 70F.



Are the temps on the cores supposed to vary like that?

Almighty1 said:

Dell machines are usually made by either Quanta or Compal. I just knew the original thermal paste seems to last longer than the ones people buy. But anyways, I am getting the 50C's temps again despite the outside temperature hitting at 100F from the normal under 70F.

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In EU there's still a Dell production line in Poland. They had one in Ireland too - but was closed and moved part the workload to Poland - while the majority was probably handled by Foxconn (whom acquired the polish factory). Quality wise - the paste seem decent (safe and performance wise somewhere in the middle). I used mostly ARCTIC MX-4 - due to longevity and also fairly decent thermal connectivity wise - just not the best performer. Not so long ago - they also released ARCTIC MX-6 - which is supposedly a better performer, tho - hope i can get the hands on that HoneyWell stuff too - at least for my personal machines. :)

Almighty1 said:

Are the temps on the cores supposed to vary like that?

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Yes, definitely. In HWiNFO - click on Core VIDs (below the CPU - that being the requested voltage - as determined by power handling & saving features - like C States but also Windows Power Plan - which by default has most of this features hidden) - and you'll see why that is happening (each core having its own individual power needs - depending on usage/requirements). On my PC have all cored unparked - so they're all running - but in general there's two cores carrying the heavier weights - while the others are watching (just chilling - while putting minimum effort) - till a demanding app is started - to put all cores to Work. It's 2024 and many apps have multi-core support by now - but very few are actually optimized to use all cores efficiently. For example Cinebench - since this app was actually designed with this purpose (to test a CPU as good as possible - to get some accurate performance score). And yet - the temperatures will oscillate still - since multi-core performance is determined by frequency (which indeed will work at max value defined) - not voltage/power (which again - oscillates - since some core can achieve the same frequency at slightly lower voltage - while other use more for same frequency).

@neves - I didn't mean Dell's production lines as they have those in the U.S. as well but the actual machines are usually from a Compal or Quanta design which Dell buys from those OEMs and then add in whatever components are needed by the Dell customer by Dell. The thing with pastes is finding one that does not pump out. I never tried Arctic MX-4 as I used to have a lot of Arctic Silver 5 but not sure where I put it.

This is what Core VIDs show:

Not sure why my thread got hijacked into seomthign about SSD health and laptop overheating. But I have another computer that patched from 23h2 to 24h2 through windows update and its having the same issue where certain apps, or random 80% of the time, apps or certain tasks will also have the "take forever to open" bug. There's nothing exposed in event viewer to suggest something. I have plenty of free space over 900GB, and nothing is overheating or overloading (70% of ram free, 30c on idle, maybe 60-80c cpu temps on load depending on the load). the hardware is perfectly healthy and not overloaded.

some tasks that take forever are opening GPU-Z, opening 3dmark, opening chrome, uninstalling chrome, re-installing chrome, opening desktopok (an tiny standalone app to save desktop icon placements).

it was working perfectly fine on 23h2. just updating to 24h2 started causing the problems. 2 other work pc's, one with an IDENTICAL hardware configuration and SAME apps installed with the same style/type of configuration (not 100% identical, but intended to be identical with the same apps installed since it's used for identical work) , had no problems with the update and doesnt have the "load forever" bug.

Try a clean install.

Hi @ssateneth.

Have you considered carrying out a repair install of Windows 11 with an in-place upgrade? I've used this option more than once when my computer has had niggling issues, and I don't want to do a clean install. Remember an in-place upgrade keeps all user accounts, apps, and personal data.

There is a tutorial here at ElevenForum which gives all the necessary steps to complete. There are two ways to do this. I normally use Option One which is via Windows Update.

ssateneth said:

some tasks that take forever are opening GPU-Z, opening 3dmark, opening chrome, uninstalling chrome, re-installing chrome, opening desktopok (an tiny standalone app to save desktop icon placements).

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From this list of slow-opening apps, have you considered replacing the graphics driver? The first 3 apps depend on HW acceleration (unless you've disabled it in Chrome).

I have only one small question.. how many were hanged?

just made an account to say that am dealing with the same "bug" updated from 23h2 were everything was smooth to 24h2 but then opening apps sometimes take some time, steam doesnt open anymore just hangs for a while in task manager and if i waited then some games just wont launch

i did a rollback to earlier build and it put me back to 23h2 and everything is back to being fast and smooth, the thing is am not sure wat the hell the problem is just in case i wanted to update in the future....resetting PC also kinda sucks

am using a amd 9800X3D with a 4090 and 64gb ram