About Device Encryption


@hdmi

I very clearly said "So obviously automatic Device Encryption is there in Windows 11 Pro and I am hearing about it now :-)"
 

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So Bitlocker and Device encryption are two different things - that do the same thing? According to Microsoft, device encryption encrypts any fixed disk when it's turned on, but unlike Bitlocker, it is available on more editions.

That doesn't make any sense to me for Pro and above. If they are two different things and you have pro, with Bitlocker and Device Encryption both turned on, wouldn't that mean you have two different sorts of encryption turned on? Using two different keys? Like using Truecrypt and Bitlocker at the same time (not actually possible I believe - but you get the idea.)

And does that mean that Bitlocker recovery key I found on my Win11 Home doesn't do anything to decrypt files? What happens if your Windows becomes unbootable?

Some of my computers Windows install have become unbootable (several times) and only fixed with reinstalls from USB. I think it was due to Windows Updates. I didnt have Bitlocker enabled at those times though, so I could copy my files to another drive with a Live USB. If I see performance issues after updates I turn off Bitlocker in case my install does get corrupted soon after the update, or after any future updates.

Some I know have been able to access Bitlocker encrypted drives with corrupt Windows installations by cloning the drive within a Live USB(or PXE boot.)

Anyway in order to use Bootable Live USB, you have to have secure boot disabled depending on what you are using. Secure boot changes will cause a Bitlocker lockout, but more are finding that after a Secure boot change in the UEFI are causing lockouts on all editions of Windows. These reports could be wrong though. So does Device Encryption on Win11 home(which isn't anything to do with Bitlocker according to some on here) lock you out at boot as well if it detects a change?

There is no way to suspend device encryption either, unlike Bitlocker, it's either on or off. So no way to, suspend, turn off secure boot, and turn back on. That has always worked for me, to tell Windows the UEFI changed are authorised. If you changed secure boot before suspending Bitlocker, some have found only a reset will allow access to Windows. This is assuming your C drive is enxrypted with Bitlocker. But now with Device Encryption, it seems you could be locked out if it is turned on with no way to suspend.

I made a whole post about the secure boot policy thing. It used to be straightforward to image or clone a drive without booting into Windows. Now not so much. I won't do it from live or other OS without knowing more about if or how Device Encryption can prevent unauthorised access by changes to firmware settings.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
No, Microsoft is making BitLocker Device Encryption (not to be confused with BitLocker Drive Encryption) automatically enabled by default for all who do a clean install of Windows 11. The user can still turn it off after the encryption is done. Alternatively, it also is possible to, before it happens, prevent it from automatically getting enabled by Windows Setup during the install. (See this thread.)

Hacky. Morally completely legitimate, but still a hacky fix. Like the way to get around Microsoft sign in at OOBE.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
@hdmi

I very clearly said "So obviously automatic Device Encryption is there in Windows 11 Pro and I am hearing about it now :-)"
I know, but Device Encryption will not be made compulsory in any way.
 

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    11 Home
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    Laptop
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    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
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    i7 13650HX
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    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
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    3840×2160
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    512GB SSD internal
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    Logitech K800
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    11 Home
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    Laptop
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    Medion S15450
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    i5 1135G7
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    16GB DDR4
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    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
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    3840×2160
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    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
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    Logitech K800
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I know, but Device Encryption will not be made compulsory in any way.
... and that would be OK... if the decryption operation was perfectly stable and there weren't obvious risks and multiple BSODs... :facepalm:
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Personal build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7700
    Motherboard
    Asus TUF Gaming B650M-Plus WiFi
    Memory
    32 GB (2x16) Corsair Dominator DDR5 RGB 6000 MT/s
    Graphics Card(s)
    Not yet
    Sound Card
    No
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    Philips BDM3270QP2
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    M.2 = 2 TB Samsung 990 Pro
    SATA = 12 TB Western Digital Red (WD120EFAX, SATA, 5400 rpm)
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    850W Corsair RM850e (2023, ATX 3.0)
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    Corsair Crystal 280X RGB TG White
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    Aerocool Mirage L240 AIO
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    Corsair K55
    Mouse
    Vertical mouse from AliExpress
    Internet Speed
    Fiber
    Browser
    Firefox, Brave, Tor
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    1000VA UPS (Nitram PB1000 LCD) for PC + Monitor + Speakers
So Bitlocker and Device encryption are two different things - that do the same thing? According to Microsoft, device encryption encrypts any fixed disk when it's turned on, but unlike Bitlocker, it is available on more editions.

That doesn't make any sense to me for Pro and above. If they are two different things and you have pro, with Bitlocker and Device Encryption both turned on, wouldn't that mean you have two different sorts of encryption turned on? Using two different keys? Like using Truecrypt and Bitlocker at the same time (not actually possible I believe - but you get the idea.)
No, both Device Encryption and BitLocker Drive Encryption use the same BitLocker encryption technology, but Home editions of Windows do not support BitLocker Drive Encryption.

Device Encryption has a lot fewer settings that can be configured by the user, as most of its advanced settings are managed automatically by Windows so they are basically kept hidden from (and inaccessible to) the user. So, it [Device Encryption] is aiming more towards the kind of user who subscribes to the club of "I just want Windows to encrypt my data and that's it", i.e., unlike BitLocker Drive Encryption. As an example of this, Device Encryption does not provide an ability to select the drive to encrypt, whereas BitLocker Drive Encryption lets you do this via BitLocker management panel.

On Windows editions that support BitLocker Drive Encryption, if Device Encryption has been enabled, it is still possible to change these advanced settings that have been applied automatically as a result of Device Encryption having been enabled. See:

Another difference is that Device Encryption requires a TPM and being logged in with a Microsoft account, but BitLocker Drive Encryption does not.
And does that mean that Bitlocker recovery key I found on my Win11 Home doesn't do anything to decrypt files? What happens if your Windows becomes unbootable?
The recovery key only is needed to be able to get out of BitLocker recovery mode.

In some scenarios, it can happen that there is no way to fix the problem of Windows becoming unbootable, in which case all data stored on the Windows system partition might be permanently lost, but you need to back up all your important data anyway in the first place, i.e., regardless of this fact. Data corruptions can always happen. (Even, if the data hasn't been encrypted in any way.)
Some of my computers Windows install have become unbootable (several times) and only fixed with reinstalls from USB. I think it was due to Windows Updates. I didnt have Bitlocker enabled at those times though, so I could copy my files to another drive with a Live USB. If I see performance issues after updates I turn off Bitlocker in case my install does get corrupted soon after the update, or after any future updates.

Some I know have been able to access Bitlocker encrypted drives with corrupt Windows installations by cloning the drive within a Live USB(or PXE boot.)
The biggest problem with that approach is that it cannot be guaranteed to always work.
Anyway in order to use Bootable Live USB, you have to have secure boot disabled depending on what you are using. Secure boot changes will cause a Bitlocker lockout, but more are finding that after a Secure boot change in the UEFI are causing lockouts on all editions of Windows. These reports could be wrong though. So does Device Encryption on Win11 home(which isn't anything to do with Bitlocker according to some on here) lock you out at boot as well if it detects a change?
Yeah, if it enters recovery mode and you don't have your recovery key, then basically, you are SOL. BitLocker Drive Encryption can be set up in such a specific way that an administrator will still be able to bypass the recovery mode, though, but Device Encryption is essentially just a dumbed down method to allow almost anyone with moderate skills to still utilize BitLocker encryption technology on Windows like I said.
There is no way to suspend device encryption either, unlike Bitlocker, it's either on or off. So no way to, suspend, turn off secure boot, and turn back on. That has always worked for me, to tell Windows the UEFI changed are authorised. If you changed secure boot before suspending Bitlocker, some have found only a reset will allow access to Windows. This is assuming your C drive is enxrypted with Bitlocker. But now with Device Encryption, it seems you could be locked out if it is turned on with no way to suspend.

I made a whole post about the secure boot policy thing. It used to be straightforward to image or clone a drive without booting into Windows. Now not so much. I won't do it from live or other OS without knowing more about if or how Device Encryption can prevent unauthorised access by changes to firmware settings.
 
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System One System Two

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    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
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    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
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    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
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    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
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    FF
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    11 Home
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    Medion S15450
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    i5 1135G7
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    16GB DDR4
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    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
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    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
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    2TB SSD internal
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    Li-ion
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    Logitech G402
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    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
... and that would be OK... if the decryption operation was perfectly stable and there weren't obvious risks and multiple BSODs... :facepalm:
I have said it before, and will keep saying it. Windows with no duct tape is almost as lonesome, morbid and drear as a pub with no beer. lol
 

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System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
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    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
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    Li-ion
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    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
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    Logitech K800
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    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
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    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
I thought bitlocker advanced features were only available in Win11 pro. And I thought that also meant that the ability to lockout due to secure boot policy changing for example, was only available in Win11 pro as well. I'm getting different information on why this happens. I'm told it's actually a memory integrity group policy change, but if you change the secure boot option in the firmware - it will also force a group policy change in Windows. This is because secure boot policy in Windows cannot be set to secure boot only when it is off in the firmware. It will lock you out if you havent suspended Bitlocker protection before changing secure boot settings in the firmware. I thought that was only a feature in Win10 Pro's Bitlocker.

Win10 and Win11 Home do not have group policy settings. Im also told It is because Bitlocker uses a hash generated by hardware and firmware (even how you set your firmware such as the secure boot setting,) similar to how Windows activation works. But that implies it might not be anything to do with the memory protection group policy settings and it will throw a recovery prompt no matter what they are set to, if the firmware settings are changed with bitlocker enabled.

You see where im going with this? What about Device Encryption? You cannot suspend it unlike Bitlocker. And it obviously doesn't need group policy to work because it is on all editions of Windows.


That might be the problem. I didn't even know it was possible to get a recovery prompt in Win10 and Win11 with only Device Encryption enabled. And on the home editions of Windows that is the only form of Encryption you can get. No extra Bitlocker settings, and as I said no way to suspend the encryption. It is either on and the fixed disks are all encrypted, or it is not and no disks are encrypted.

People with different editions of Win11, including home edition like mine, they are reporting that they are getting locked out at a recovery prompt, and they don't have Bitlocker turned on. Or they don't have a Windows edition with Bitlocker. As I said some people are reporting it happening on Win11 Home.


So maybe Win11 Device Encryption is now behaving more like Win10 Pro Bitlocker with that extra security - and hair trigger lockout.

Some are reporting recovery prompts after a UEFI update. And they're getting this every time they start their PC. And Microsoft say to fix this you have to use your recovery key and suspend bitlocker encryption, then re enable later.

That way it will accept the changes made to the computer that caused the lockout in the first place and wont ask for the key again - as long as nothing changes again. Then you have to do it all over again. But with Win11 Home and Device Encryption you cant suspend Bitlocker. As I said I am surprised that Win11 home even throws up a recovery prompt when firmware or hardware changes. I thought that level of protection was Win10 Pro with Bitlocker only. But there are reports of it happening.


ASUS are advising to turn off Device Encryption or suspend Bitlocker before you turn off secure boot, depending on your edition of Windows. That is the advice Microsoft has on various parts of their website as well but they only mention Bitlocker. But if you're already locked out - It says across the Microsoft website to use the recovery key and do the same thing - as I mentioned. But again only Bitlocker is mentioned in these web pages and community posts.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
Both Device Encryption and BitLocker Drive Encryption use multiple detection mechanisms to protect the encryption against tampering attacks. They both also use anti-hammering protection of the PIN, and, the tampering detection mechanisms also include firmware versions of hardware components, firmware configurations of hardware components, a boot sequence integrity check, and, if a TPM is present, the TPM state that is recorded by, and stored within, the TPM and that also includes parameters that define the boot sequence, as that in fact is what Windows Measured Boot is for. That is, among various other factors (e.g., unique hardware identifiers, etc.). These mechanisms are all part of the BitLocker encryption technology that is used by both "flavors" of protection. So yes, if they tell you to suspend BitLocker, then if you are using Device Encryption as opposed to are using BitLocker Drive Encryption, what they factually mean is to turn off Device Encryption.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
@Thorshammer342 let me get this right, and let's all assume that I'm fairly unexperienced at those things. 😅
I intend to create a "Live pen drive" for repair & recovery purposes.
You are saying that if "Secure boot" is enabled in the BIOS (it is for me), I won't be able to boot on my pen drive.
But in that case, I guess I would only need to enter the BIOS, disable "Secure boot" and reboot, right? Or is it more complicated? 😅
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Personal build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7700
    Motherboard
    Asus TUF Gaming B650M-Plus WiFi
    Memory
    32 GB (2x16) Corsair Dominator DDR5 RGB 6000 MT/s
    Graphics Card(s)
    Not yet
    Sound Card
    No
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips BDM3270QP2
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    M.2 = 2 TB Samsung 990 Pro
    SATA = 12 TB Western Digital Red (WD120EFAX, SATA, 5400 rpm)
    PSU
    850W Corsair RM850e (2023, ATX 3.0)
    Case
    Corsair Crystal 280X RGB TG White
    Cooling
    Aerocool Mirage L240 AIO
    Keyboard
    Corsair K55
    Mouse
    Vertical mouse from AliExpress
    Internet Speed
    Fiber
    Browser
    Firefox, Brave, Tor
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    1000VA UPS (Nitram PB1000 LCD) for PC + Monitor + Speakers
@Thorshammer342 let me get this right, and let's all assume that I'm fairly unexperienced at those things. 😅
I intend to create a "Live pen drive" for repair & recovery purposes.
You are saying that if "Secure boot" is enabled in the BIOS (it is for me), I won't be able to boot on my pen drive.
But in that case, I guess I would only need to enter the BIOS, disable "Secure boot" and reboot, right? Or is it more complicated? 😅
That is only true for non uefi fully compliant OSs. Sence Windows 8, any Winpe drive could boot even if secure boot is enabled. Linux distros vary.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro + Win11 Canary VM.
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Zenbook 14
    CPU
    I9 13th gen i9-13900H 2.60 GHZ
    Motherboard
    Yep, Laptop has one.
    Memory
    16 GB soldered
    Graphics Card(s)
    Integrated Intel Iris XE
    Sound Card
    Realtek built in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop OLED screen
    Screen Resolution
    2880x1800 touchscreen
    Hard Drives
    1 TB NVME SSD (only weakness is only one slot)
    PSU
    Internal + 65W thunderbolt USB4 charger
    Case
    Yep, got one
    Cooling
    Stella Artois (UK pint cans - 568 ml) - extra cost.
    Keyboard
    Built in UK keybd
    Mouse
    Bluetooth , wireless dongled, wired
    Internet Speed
    900 mbs (ethernet), wifi 6 typical 350-450 mb/s both up and down
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    TPM 2.0, 2xUSB4 thunderbolt, 1xUsb3 (usb a), 1xUsb-c, hdmi out, 3.5 mm audio out/in combo, ASUS backlit trackpad (inc. switchable number pad)

    Macrium Reflect Home V8
    Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
    Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Personal build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7700
    Motherboard
    Asus TUF Gaming B650M-Plus WiFi
    Memory
    32 GB (2x16) Corsair Dominator DDR5 RGB 6000 MT/s
    Graphics Card(s)
    Not yet
    Sound Card
    No
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips BDM3270QP2
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    M.2 = 2 TB Samsung 990 Pro
    SATA = 12 TB Western Digital Red (WD120EFAX, SATA, 5400 rpm)
    PSU
    850W Corsair RM850e (2023, ATX 3.0)
    Case
    Corsair Crystal 280X RGB TG White
    Cooling
    Aerocool Mirage L240 AIO
    Keyboard
    Corsair K55
    Mouse
    Vertical mouse from AliExpress
    Internet Speed
    Fiber
    Browser
    Firefox, Brave, Tor
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    1000VA UPS (Nitram PB1000 LCD) for PC + Monitor + Speakers
@Thorshammer342 let me get this right, and let's all assume that I'm fairly unexperienced at those things. 😅
I intend to create a "Live pen drive" for repair & recovery purposes.
You are saying that if "Secure boot" is enabled in the BIOS (it is for me), I won't be able to boot on my pen drive.
But in that case, I guess I would only need to enter the BIOS, disable "Secure boot" and reboot, right? Or is it more complicated? 😅

It is more complicated than that.

But basically in a nutshell - yes.

If you try to boot up up a Linux distro or other OS that isn't signed by Microsoft (or one of their emissaries) it will not boot. And that's just OSes installed on a fixed disk. Supposedly you can boot unsigned efi files from Live USB media with secure boot turned on as long as the path and filename is the standard /boot/X64/bootx64.efi - assuming a 64 bit system. However im not sure of this for all bootable USB tools and Live systems.

Some OSes and bootable tools are able to boot with secure boot turned on because they are already signed (By Microsoft or a proxy.) If not, it is possible to enroll a key in firmware NVRAM, using a bootable utility which is already signed. The enrolled key is used to verify the signature of the EFI file you want to boot, which will allow it to do so. That's putting it very simply. Im not sure why, but Hirens boot USB needs to enroll a key before it can be used.

You also need to enroll a key and sign any drivers yourself that you want to use on Linux if they come unsigned and secure boot is enabled.

You can also turn off secure boot, but if you want to still use Windows that is also getting more complicated, due to the security features build into Windows.

With Win11 pro you need to Suspend Bitlocker before turning off secure boot (or on from off), or you will trigger firmware anti tamper, and get the Bitlocker recovery key prompt.

I'm not sure about Device Encryption. Microsoft don't mention anything about it locking out the drives due to secure boot changes as Bitlocker does if it is enabled, but people are reporting it in all editions of Windows, for a number of reasons. Even UEFI updates are triggering a lockout.

But ASUS recommend, if you have Win11 Home - before turning off secure boot turn off Device Encryption, which will decrypt your drives. Im guessing because there is no Bitlocker to suspend you have to decrypt to disable the hair trigger firmware anti tamper features.

To get automatic Windows updates, I believe you need secure boot AND Device Encryption turned on. And you need to turn Device Encryption off before changing the secure boot setting, or you will get that recovery prompt.

Not to mention people are getting BSODs while decrypting. And Device Encryption is enabled automatically at OOBE (you have to sign in now to finish Windows install.)


I mean it is Microsoft.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
Thank you ☺️ Well, my aim is to follow this french tutorial: https://www.malekal.com/creer-live-cd-malekal-depanner-ordinateur/
It's based on a minimalist Windows (11 I guess, judging by the screenshots), with some tools.
So hopefully it will be signed, otherwise it would be pointless, right?


Just been there. You did read my report, right? 😅 😂

Not just you. It's being reported across the Internet and tech support departments the world over. SSDs are being corrupted because of this sh!t.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
To get automatic Windows updates, I believe you need secure boot AND Device Encryption turned on.
No, Windows Automatic Update (WAU) does not have these requirements.
And you need to turn Device Encryption off before changing the secure boot setting, or you will get that recovery prompt.
Disabling Secure Boot in the UEFI settings can indeed trigger Device Encryption to enter recovery mode on the next startup, and, the same also applies to BitLocker Drive Encryption. This is because Secure Boot is part of the system’s integrity checks, and changing its state can be seen as a potential security threat.
Not to mention people are getting BSODs while decrypting. And Device Encryption is enabled automatically at OOBE (you have to sign in now to finish Windows install.)
See my post #20. It is still possible to prevent Device Encryption from, during a clean install of Windows 11, being enabled automatically. If Windows 11 was preinstalled (OEM) by the manufacturer of the computer, the manufacturer also has the option to customize the OOBE in such a way that prompts the user with a question, "Do you want to use BitLocker?".
I mean it is Microsoft.
I heard that Microsoft will soon be acquired by Macrohard.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
"Windows Automatic Update (WAU) does not have these requirements."

Really? I read something on the Microsoft site that said or implied otherwise. Maybe that was another OEM customization.




"Disabling Secure Boot in the UEFI settings can indeed trigger Device Encryption to enter recovery mode on the next startup, and, the same also applies to BitLocker Drive Encryption. This is because Secure Boot is part of the system’s integrity checks, and changing its state can be seen as a potential security threat."


I dont remember this happening in any edition of Windows 10 with Device Encryption enabled. Certainly not Windows 10 Home. Only time it ever happened was. with Bitlocker on Win10 pro computers.

And on Win11 it isn't just next startup. It is over and over again every startup, until either Bitlocker is suspended in Pro and above, or Device Encryption is turned off in Home. Not sure what happens in that edition if you try to turn it back on again. Would people still get that key prompt?

Microsoft don't even mention this about Decice Encryption anywhere on their website. Or how you can change secure boot on Win10 Home without triggering it or decrypting.



They dont even say to decrypt. ASUS do mention it on their website though. But ASUS aren't Microsoft and Microsoft make Windows. So it is more cr@p from Microsoft - with a solution that they don't recommend or even mention.

It's like they want to make it as hard and dangerous to your Windows install as possible without paying a premium.

Yes decryption is a solution but it is dangerous. As someone pointed out here it has been causing BSODs.



Some PCs are being reported with file system corruption. Easily fixed with a Windows reinstall usually yes.

But your OEM pre-boot drivers might have been wiped, and other WinRE OEM tools that can be useful or even required in that environment.

With that OEM driver hash thing in the firmware, you would think Windows Update would be able to download them too but apparently not always.

That's not all though, with repeated encryption and decryption, some SSDs are being reported as not just corrupt, but worn. The NAND flash wore out. The wear levelling couldn't compensate.

If it were as simple as clicking suspend with Bitlocker, it would be fine. Suspend apparently doesn't decrypt the whole drive. It looks like it suspends the firmware threat protection (and other triggers) but doesn't need to decrypt. So for users with a laptop that came with Home Edition, you don't have that option.




"See my post #20. It is still possible to prevent Device Encryption from, during a clean install of Windows 11, being enabled automatically. If Windows 11 was preinstalled (OEM) by the manufacturer of the computer, the manufacturer also has the option to customize the OOBE in such a way that prompts the user with a question, "Do you want to use BitLocker?"


Not likely. Most OEMs follow the party line, so they wont be going against Microsoft recommendations. I don't know any. Every OOBE I have seen looks generic - all the same, with no option to turn off Device Encryption. And if it is asking about Bitlocker, it is probably Win10 Pro asking if you want to use drive encryption. I thought you were mistakenly referring to the way you can use the command prompt during OOBE to skip some settings.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18
"Windows Automatic Update (WAU) does not have these requirements."

Really? I read something on the Microsoft site that said or implied otherwise. Maybe that was another OEM customization.
No, Secure Boot does not need to be enabled in the UEFI settings for Windows Automatic Updates to download and install updates on Windows 11. Secure Boot is a security feature designed to prevent unauthorized software from running during the boot process, but it is not required for the automatic update process itself. However, Secure Boot is a requirement for installing or upgrading to Windows 11, as it helps ensure a secure computing environment. In addition, neither Device Encryption nor BitLocker Drive Encryption need to be enabled for Windows Automatic Updates to download and install updates on Windows 11.
"Disabling Secure Boot in the UEFI settings can indeed trigger Device Encryption to enter recovery mode on the next startup, and, the same also applies to BitLocker Drive Encryption. This is because Secure Boot is part of the system’s integrity checks, and changing its state can be seen as a potential security threat."

I dont remember this happening in any edition of Windows 10 with Device Encryption enabled. Certainly not Windows 10 Home. Only time it ever happened was. with Bitlocker on Win10 pro computers.

And on Win11 it isn't just next startup. It is over and over again every startup, until either Bitlocker is suspended in Pro and above, or Device Encryption is turned off in Home. Not sure what happens in that edition if you try to turn it back on again. Would people still get that key prompt?
I suppose that turning Secure Boot back on again before entering the correct key should stop the key prompt re-appearing on every startup.
Microsoft don't even mention this about Decice Encryption anywhere on their website. Or how you can change secure boot on Win10 Home without triggering it or decrypting.

They dont even say to decrypt. ASUS do mention it on their website though. But ASUS aren't Microsoft and Microsoft make Windows. So it is more cr@p from Microsoft - with a solution that they don't recommend or even mention.

It's like they want to make it as hard and dangerous to your Windows install as possible without paying a premium.

Yes decryption is a solution but it is dangerous. As someone pointed out here it has been causing BSODs.
You don't need to crack any secret puzzle to figure out the fact that BitLocker Drive Encryption has always sucked, and it still sucks. The only good thing about both Device Encryption and it is that you can just keep it disabled forever.
Some PCs are being reported with file system corruption. Easily fixed with a Windows reinstall usually yes.

But your OEM pre-boot drivers might have been wiped, and other WinRE OEM tools that can be useful or even required in that environment.

With that OEM driver hash thing in the firmware, you would think Windows Update would be able to download them too but apparently not always.

That's not all though, with repeated encryption and decryption, some SSDs are being reported as not just corrupt, but worn. The NAND flash wore out. The wear levelling couldn't compensate.

If it were as simple as clicking suspend with Bitlocker, it would be fine. Suspend apparently doesn't decrypt the whole drive. It looks like it suspends the firmware threat protection (and other triggers) but doesn't need to decrypt. So for users with a laptop that came with Home Edition, you don't have that option.
That's one of those reasons why I always stick to the Home edition. Everything that I have stored on my Windows laptops is just not encrypted nor worth stealing.
"See my post #20. It is still possible to prevent Device Encryption from, during a clean install of Windows 11, being enabled automatically. If Windows 11 was preinstalled (OEM) by the manufacturer of the computer, the manufacturer also has the option to customize the OOBE in such a way that prompts the user with a question, "Do you want to use BitLocker?"

Not likely. Most OEMs follow the party line, so they wont be going against Microsoft recommendations. I don't know any. Every OOBE I have seen looks generic - all the same, with no option to turn off Device Encryption. And if it is asking about Bitlocker, it is probably Win10 Pro asking if you want to use drive encryption. I thought you were mistakenly referring to the way you can use the command prompt during OOBE to skip some settings.
On my old Medion laptop (system 2 in my specs), that came with Windows 10 version 2004 preinstalled at the time when I bought it at the local grocery store at the end of the year 2020, during OOBE it did ask me this question. It was just a simple text screen with light grey text on a black background. I aswered yes to see what it was about, as I had never heard of BitLocker on Windows 10 Home before. I turned it off some time after letting Windows 10 update itself to 20H2 along with all the other updates, uninstalling the free McAfee, and getting latest drivers. It's been off ever since.

The Asus (system 1 in my specs) came with Windows 11 Home. On this laptop, Device Encryption was already on by default, but the padlock sign on the drives in This PC was showing unlocked (decrypted). So, all I had to do was turn off Device Encryption, and just keep it that way.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
I'm happy that my Drive Encryption is off now, and that I have survived all the BSODs.
I just hope that such Drive Encryption won't magically and silently turn on again with a future major Windows update.
"Highly unlikely" you'll say. But hey, it's Microsoft. 🤷‍♂️
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Personal build
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7700
    Motherboard
    Asus TUF Gaming B650M-Plus WiFi
    Memory
    32 GB (2x16) Corsair Dominator DDR5 RGB 6000 MT/s
    Graphics Card(s)
    Not yet
    Sound Card
    No
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Philips BDM3270QP2
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    M.2 = 2 TB Samsung 990 Pro
    SATA = 12 TB Western Digital Red (WD120EFAX, SATA, 5400 rpm)
    PSU
    850W Corsair RM850e (2023, ATX 3.0)
    Case
    Corsair Crystal 280X RGB TG White
    Cooling
    Aerocool Mirage L240 AIO
    Keyboard
    Corsair K55
    Mouse
    Vertical mouse from AliExpress
    Internet Speed
    Fiber
    Browser
    Firefox, Brave, Tor
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    1000VA UPS (Nitram PB1000 LCD) for PC + Monitor + Speakers

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024)
    CPU
    i7 13650HX
    Memory
    16GB DDR5
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce RTX 4060 Mobile
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Cooling
    2× Arc Flow Fans, 4× exhaust vents, 5× heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
  • Operating System
    11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Medion S15450
    CPU
    i5 1135G7
    Memory
    16GB DDR4
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel Iris Xe
    Sound Card
    Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme; Emotiva UMC-200; Astell & Kern AK240
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia XR-55X90J
    Screen Resolution
    3840×2160
    Hard Drives
    2TB SSD internal
    37TB external
    PSU
    Li-ion
    Mouse
    Logitech G402
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Internet Speed
    20Mbit/s up, 250Mbit/s down
    Browser
    FF
No, Secure Boot does not need to be enabled in the UEFI settings for Windows Automatic Updates to download and install updates on Windows 11. Secure Boot is a security feature designed to prevent unauthorized software from running during the boot process, but it is not required for the automatic update process itself. However, Secure Boot is a requirement for installing or upgrading to Windows 11, as it helps ensure a secure computing environment. In addition, neither Device Encryption nor BitLocker Drive Encryption need to be enabled for Windows Automatic Updates to download and install updates on Windows 11.

Hmm... Maybe it is another feature I'm thinking of. I do remember a few people mentioning they weren't getting auto updates in Win10 after secure boot was turned off. And I thought i read the same recently about Win11 device encryption on the Microsoft website - regardless of secure boot status I was assuming. There are definitely third party programs such as Adobe CSS which are mentioned as requiring secure boot turned on to work. Can't find anything official about that from adobe though. Some EA games require require secure boot on.. Apparently Valorent, is even stranger. The consensus is that it requires secure boot off. Maybe that's all anti piracy and anti cheating design logic?


I suppose that turning Secure Boot back on again before entering the correct key should stop the key prompt re-appearing on every startup.

Not what's being reported. Think that's why people are turning it off and on so many times causing SSD damage. People might want it back on without the prompt appearing, so they try to undo the changes that cause it.

It would probably be the order of


Turn off device encryption

Make changes that could otherwise trigger anti tamper

Turn device encryption back on with the assumption that it will now accept the changes as legit

Recovery prompt appears every boot now.


And to fix it so you might try


Turn off device encryption again - so you don't need your recovery key to boot every f*#!#*g time

Undo changes which cause the recovery prompt to appear, or try something else with the assumption when you turn encryption back on, you won't get recovery prompt,

Turn device encryption back on

Recovery prompt appears

Rinse and repeat.



That's one of those reasons why I always stick to the Home edition. Everything that I have stored on my Windows laptops is just not encrypted nor worth stealing.

Not sure that's relevant to what you are quoting. I was simply saying in that quote that reinstalling Windows will easily fix any corruption of the file system that an unbootable Windows is installed on. But you might trash your OEM preboot drivers by doing so, and they can be useful. Image your drive from within Windows before it can go bang. That means the partition Windows is installed on, the WinRE, OEM and EFI partitions as well.


On my old Medion laptop (system 2 in my specs), that came with Windows 10 version 2004 preinstalled at the time when I bought it at the local grocery store at the end of the year 2020, during OOBE it did ask me this question. It was just a simple text screen with light grey text on a black background. I aswered yes to see what it was about, as I had never heard of BitLocker on Windows 10 Home before. I turned it off some time after letting Windows 10 update itself to 20H2 along with all the other updates, uninstalling the free McAfee, and getting latest drivers. It's been off ever since.

I don't know anybody who has a Medion. don't get many for tech support either. And I'm not surprised really. I had a Medion desktop with XP years ago. Memory was toast after a year. Installed Linux on a Medion USB HDD though. That drive still works for backups to this day.

I have reinstalled Win11 on some Medion laptops I think, but I don't remember that OOBE setting. Maybe if you reinstall from a Windows USB it removes any OEM customizations, including the OOBE? The SSD was toast though, so no OEM partitions.


The Asus (system 1 in my specs) came with Windows 11 Home. On this laptop, Device Encryption was already on by default, but the padlock sign on the drives in This PC was showing unlocked (decrypted). So, all I had to do was turn off Device Encryption, and just keep it that way.

My most recent laptop is a ASUS G18. The padlock shows locked.

Honestly, what is the point of turning it on at install, even showing it in security settings as turned on just for it to actually be off anyway? Apart from the honest padlock, it's straight up lying to you. I mean what if you actually want it on? You would think it's on when it's actually off. And what else do you have to do if the padlock does show unlocked to actually turn it on? 😄
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS ROG Strix G18

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