Are there means to add TPM 2 to non supported laptops ?

Dru2 said:

Perhaps having supported hardware has skewed me, but I applaud Microsoft for pushing security and creating an OS that requires modern hardware. What's wrong with that?

As someone asked, is Microsoft supposed to support old/aging hardware/software forever? Are they not allowed to take advantage of the tools available now (no matter the tool has been around for years)?

And Microsoft isn't forcing anyone into Windows 11 as they did not the previous OS's. They're simply stating the new minimum requirements to run their latest OS.

That said, I'm fairly certain a majority of forum members here will have new PCs/builds before EOL of Windows 10 (2025) so all this worriation is just an exercise in fortune telling

Anyway, as stated my desktop is fully supported, my laptop isn't (7th gen CPU), but I plan on buying a new one once 11 is released :)

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hsehestedt said:

Dru2, same exact situation for me. My desktop will handle 11 fine (latest gen Intel CPU, a physical TPM, etc.), but my laptop is 7th gen although it does have a TPM, and some really decent hardware.

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Someone elsewhere in a thread accused me of being supportive of the new security requirements because of my build fully supporting Windows 11, as well.

It makes me laugh when people consider me to be that shallow.

I have to agree, though, even if it is smoke and mirrors, they are trying to look like they are doing something, rather than just sitting there plodding on supporting all sorts of outdated hardware with critical security flaws that will never be fixed.

johnlgalt said:

Someone elsewhere in a thread accused me of being supportive of the new security requirements because of my build fully supporting Windows 11, as well.

It makes me laugh when people consider me to be that shallow.

I have to agree, though, even if it is smoke and mirrors, they are trying to look like they are doing something, rather than just sitting there plodding on supporting all sorts of outdated hardware with critical security flaws that will never be fixed.

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I'd have to disagree with the "smoke and mirrors" sentiment since I fully expect not only Microsoft, but all software and hardware vendors to enhance and call for tighter security measures, and well as take advantage of the tech and hardware of today.... even at the expense of leaving some old tech behind. That is the nature of technology - to continually improve even at the expense of leaving now incompatible stuff behind.

And yeah, I'm not apologizing for being supportive where Windows 11 is headed. In fact, I welcome it :)

My two cents.

Only reason I said smoke and mirrors is that there is no clear cut indication (as of yet) that these enhanced security measures will actually do anything that a simple BitLocker / 3rd party full disk encryption won't already do without TPM.

Especially in light of the recent article on Ars showing that direct access to the laptop with on-board firmware-based TPM was hacked in under 30 minutes. Granted, it was physical access to the machine to enable this. But what that could hold for the future down the line is yet to be determined.

As I've said for a long time - if it is digital, it can be hacked.

johnlgalt said:

Only reason I said smoke and mirrors is that there is no clear cut indication (as of yet) that these enhanced security measures will actually do anything that a simple BitLocker / 3rd party full disk encryption won't already do without TPM.

Especially in light of the recent article on Ars showing that direct access to the laptop with on-board firmware-based TPM was hacked in under 30 minutes. Granted, it was physical access to the machine to enable this. But what that could hold for the future down the line is yet to be determined.

As I've said for a long time - if it is digital, it can be hacked.

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Yet we find Microsoft insisting on TPM. That says they do plan on using TPM to further security features. The only unknown is to what extent and what features. At this early stage in the game it's all speculation and guesswork (on both sides).

As for the ARS, they didn't say anything anyone doesn't know.... anything can be hacked given the time and resources. What is missed by those touting the article (yes, you mentioned it, others haven't) is the fact that the hacker would need "physical" control of the machine. So....

At any rate, as the old saying goes.... locks are there to keep honest people honest. Those determined enough will find a way in, no matter the security. That's the nature of humans - crime :)

And agree, if it's computer code it can be hacked.

Exactly. Well articulated.

johnlgalt said:

Exactly. Well articulated.

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Agreed. The H/W security key is pretty much useless once the software is running... i.e the software is exposed post boot .. so.

(I posted a PowerShell Bitlocker hack which bypasses the security keys..be they firmware contained or not)

Not surprised. I had a feeling it was doable.

nIGHTmAYOR said:

Like I understood Microsoft plan to make TPM 2 mandatory for Windows 11 to install , surprisingly I checked 3 of my laptops that were manufactured in years 2011 , 2015 , 2017 respectively which are all made by Lenovo to the surprise that non of them have TPM what so ever , not even the 1.2 version .

So the question is , will this mean that all these laptops will undergo planned obsolescence ? Or rather that we are about to await certain modders cracking windows to over-ride the TPM function ? Or that there will be some dongles , M2 modules to compensate for the lack of TPM ?

Bare in mind all those laptops perform optimally under Windows 10 as I managed to increase their rams to max on each , mind you upgraded their hdds to ssds and even their PCI-E / M2 Wifi cards to AX standard !

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Hi there

Using a VM can get round the problem in some cases:

1) ensure VM has TPM V2 emulation (on Ms Hosts the emulator is provided by Ms - On Linux Hosts it's provided by IBM and also on Linux ensure the tpm daemon is started before booting the VM - you don't need to do anything else with it either on Windows or Linux Hosts- the VM will handle all the communication required with the "Virtual" TPM).

2) even on MBR bioses ensure VM is created with UEFI

3) ensure the VM boots with secure boot (on Linux Hosts install package OVMF for VM UEFI boot and secure boot)

4) in the VM's config if you can then "Poodlefake" the CPU topology - choose one that "works" - in most cases unless the CPU is incredibly new the HYPERVISOR running the VM will be able to emulate the CPU instructions for your virtual CPU when those cpu instructions don't exist in the real cpu -- this will cost a bit but probably not a huge amount of performance. If the CPU is really old then you will probably get a BSOD in the Windows VM if it runs at all e.g I woudn't try emulating a gen 7 or 8 i7 CPU on a Pentium IV !!!

The VM's virtual BIOS and hardware should then pass the tests for W11.

I'm sure people will also find a "get around" on Real hardware too. The easiest VM's to "Poodlefake" the hardware are on Windows Hosts - HYPER-V and on Linux use KVM/QEMU. I've no idea on VMWare or VBOX . As the old textbooks used to say "This is left as an exercise for our readers". !!

Cheers
jimbo

Superfly said:

(I posted a PowerShell Bitlocker hack which bypasses the security keys..be they firmware contained or not)

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Meaning what? You wrote a program that bypasses the need to provide a BitLocker key to access an encrypted drive??? Not clear what you (or johnlgault) are implying.

You know, it is all software, it never ends...

nIGHTmAYOR said:

Like I understood Microsoft plan to make TPM 2 mandatory for Windows 11 to install , surprisingly I checked 3 of my laptops that were manufactured in years 2011 , 2015 , 2017 respectively which are all made by Lenovo to the surprise that non of them have TPM what so ever , not even the 1.2 version .

So the question is , will this mean that all these laptops will undergo planned obsolescence ? Or rather that we are about to await certain modders cracking windows to over-ride the TPM function ? Or that there will be some dongles , M2 modules to compensate for the lack of TPM ?

Bare in mind all those laptops perform optimally under Windows 10 as I managed to increase their rams to max on each , mind you upgraded their hdds to ssds and even their PCI-E / M2 Wifi cards to AX standard !

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on Dynabook's side (formerly Toshiba), no.
Dynabook is only bringing Win11 support to Portege, Tecra & Satellite Pro series of laptops which many of them should already have some TPM support (either TPM 1.2 or 2.0)

my dad's Toshiba Satellite (not Satellite Pro) 2013 laptop is UEFI based but no TPM (not even a TPM connector on the system board) - so I can forget about nor worry about TPM on there cuz it will never have it