Macrium with Acronis and restic + plus real time ViceVersa PRO

lenovomi · Apr 15, 2023

Hello,
I went thru many threads, tried various tools, etc.. but i cant see that such a complex thing can be done via one tool/backend. so thats what i come up with.

1) backup regularly pc via scheduler as bare metal image; (HOT backup assuming utilizing vss...)
using Macrium and Acronis, lets say Macrium monday-wednesday-sat;
Acronis tuesday; thursday; friday

both backups goes via local network to NAS and viac rclone encrypted from NAS to some cloud storage.

2)
use restic to backup OS on file level ; (3-4h schedule?)
from machine to NAS ; then sync encrypted restic repo to cloud - amazon s3; or something similar.

3)
real time ViceVersa PRO

User folder should be real time monitored via viceversa pro - and dump data to NAS;
once per day to cloud.

Any idea / advice/ comments welcome!

thank you

cereberus · Apr 15, 2023

Frankly, I have read your post several times and I have no idea of what you are trying to achieve, let alone understanding what restic , ViceVersa PRO is?

As far as I can tell, you are mixing up file syncing requirements with image backup requirements.

This forum is largely for domestic users with relatively simple backup needs.

So what exactly are you trying to do, how and why?

lenovomi · Apr 15, 2023

Hi @cerberus,
i think image backup is not enough (bc of its not frequent schedule/execution and size)

You need to go with 3-2-1 backup strategy, and push image backup all the time to the cloud is insane, to store it on local NAS is fine.

I need to have solution that can backup machine on image level for a quick restore (and push it also to cloud not that frequently) and also on file level ... ie basic daily work where u need to backup changes or accidental files deletions ... that one has to be synced to cloud / deduped/ encrpyted etc.

You execute image backup not that often .. so thats why i need something as real-time file monitoring / backup to NAS and Cloud ...

thx

TM21 · Apr 15, 2023

Ditto! Cereberus.

lenovomi · Apr 15, 2023

@TechnoMage2021 i dont think so ... there are many discussions,,, but havent see any working "architecture" and complex solution instead of specific tools, partial solutions etc....

cereberus · Apr 15, 2023

lenovomi said:
Hi @cerberus,
i think image backup is not enough (bc of its not frequent schedule/execution and size)

You need to go with 3-2-1 backup strategy, and push image backup all the time to the cloud is insane, to store it on local NAS is fine.

I need to have solution that can backup machine on image level for a quick restore (and push it also to cloud not that frequently) and also on file level ... ie basic daily work where u need to backup changes or accidental files deletions ... that one has to be synced to cloud / deduped/ encrpyted etc.

You execute image backup not that often .. so thats why i need something as real-time file monitoring / backup to NAS and Cloud ...

thx

You are still not being clear.

You have to describe your setup, how is data stored, how much, how is NAS setup etc. etc. Is it for company use and so on, why is it so critical.

What are you expecting from us?

You seem to have decided on the answer but we do not know what the question is?

lenovomi · Apr 15, 2023

cereberus said:
You have to describe your setup, how is data stored, how much, how is NAS setup etc. etc. Is it for company use and so on, why is it so critical.

@cereberus got your point now.

I have laptop running win11, but machine is critical for me, its my working machine with important files on and since time to time i just upgrade... lets say from hp gen7 to gen8 9 etc... so have to be able to restore to new machine / hw easily/ restore in case of hw failure.
Also running full drive encryption via verarcrypt. Machine comes with 2tb ssd nvme, 64g ram.

NAS is 40TB truenas ZFS (fully encrypted) so easily for backup within local network.
All is personal stuff/data etc.

Data is critical, time is limited - so dont have time to do brand new install customization etc...

cereberus said:
What are you expecting from us?

Just was wondering if someone was trying to solve similar problem / scenario and if that makes a sense.

cereberus said:
answer but we do not know what the question is?

ah, posted it with intention that that answer can be modified/criticized/ etc.

1) so i need image backup
2) file level backup
3) User dir - ideally real time backup

1-3 -> to NAS unecrypted ; and async from NAS to another 2 geo location (encrypted) ideally Cloud - aws, etc.

thanks

Bree · Apr 15, 2023

lenovomi said:
i think image backup is not enough (bc of its not frequent schedule/execution and size)

Incremental images are by their nature small, only backing up changes since the last image. You can schedule Reflect to make an Incremental every 15 minutes.

Macrium Reflect v8.0 now includes Intra-Daily scheduling of backups for a minimum of 15 minute intervals between start times for selected days.....

....The default template defines the following backups:

Full at 09:00 on the first Monday of each month.

Differential every weekday morning at 09:00

Incrementals between 09:00 and 17:30 every weekday.

Intra-Daily Schedules - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

ThrashZone · Apr 15, 2023

Hi,
Trouble is dude doesn't like acronis so of course he's being difficult :lmao:

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
What's up with this ?
Why are you excluding acronis to good/ to bad

cereberus said:
Not free unless you buy a hard drive plus I have had bad experiences with it .

glasskuter · Apr 15, 2023

I do not know your situation but for a normal user it seems like overkill to me. it's fine to use 2 backup apps but both Acronis and Macrium can do scheduled incrementals or differentials. A full image once a week with scheduled differentials each of the other 6 days makes sense if storage is not a problem. Otherwise, though taking longer to restore, incrementals rather than differentials would work. I'm a believer in KISS.

cereberus · Apr 16, 2023

Ok, much clearer what you are doing but you do not say if data is kept on separate drive or partition.

As you are using pc for business,,you should keep data on a separate partition.

Then you can image backup OS plus programs independently of data.

For a 2 TB drive, I would partition (max) 500 TB for OS plus programs and rest for data.

You can use Reflect incrementals as low as 15 minutes but that is probably overkill - OS plus programs drive partition rarely change that frequently (if you keep data separate).

Then you can use any of a number of file backup/syncing tools for the data drive partition even in real time.

But again that could be overkill. Do you need to sync all data in real time, or only a small subset for example.

In other words, you need to determine a backup strategy and it seem you have done it.

Why are you using veracrypt though - Bitlocker is native and tools like Macrium Reflect handle bitlocker but you need Pro (for business, it would be ridiculous to be using Home).

Frankly I would not trust my critical data with 3rd party encryption tools. Veracrypt has been known to fail following updates. I have never heard of bitlocker failing (provided recovery keys are kept safe).

Re redeploy of pc to new hardware - it is an unrealistic expectation to do that instantly as it woukd take a few hours depending how to do it.

Re. NAS, I leave that up to other users with NAS experience to make comments.

lenovomi · Apr 16, 2023

Bree said:
Incremental images are by their nature small, only backing up changes since the last image. You can schedule Reflect to make an Incremental every 15 minutes.

yeah but for a critical data that changes constantly 15min is too much / big.

lenovomi · Apr 16, 2023

cereberus said:
Ok, much clearer what you are doing but you do not say if data is kept on separate drive or partition.

As you are using pc for business,,you should keep data on a separate partition.

Then you can image backup OS plus programs independently of data.

hello, just wondering why its better to keep it on separate partition? IS there any benefit for it?

cereberus said:
You can use Reflect incrementals as low as 15 minutes but that is probably overkill - OS plus programs drive partition rarely change that frequently (if you keep data separate).

yes, there is no point, only for User folder makes sense to do it realtime i guess.

cereberus said:
Why are you using veracrypt though - Bitlocker is native and tools like Macrium Reflect handle bitlocker but you need Pro (for business, it would be ridiculous to be using Home).

bc bitlocker is vulnerable and trash. :)

cereberus said:
Frankly I would not trust my critical data with 3rd party encryption tools. Veracrypt has been known to fail following updates. I have never heard of bitlocker failing (provided recovery keys are kept safe).

could u elaborate on this? I havent heard about such failure, or what fail do u mean?

cereberus said:
Re redeploy of pc to new hardware - it is an unrealistic expectation to do that instantly as it woukd take a few hours depending how to do it.

yeah that correct, but just not to do some manual tweaking customization again... just restore wait some time and continue with work.

cereberus · Apr 18, 2023

The p

lenovomi said:
hello, just wondering why its better to keep it on separate partition? IS there any benefit for it?

yes, there is no point, only for User folder makes sense to do it realtime i guess.

bc bitlocker is vulnerable and trash. :)

could u elaborate on this? I havent heard about such failure, or what fail do u mean?

yeah that correct, but just not to do some manual tweaking customization again... just restore wait some time and continue with work.

Keeping data on a separate partition means you can sync it in real time.

It is really overkill backing up OS plus programs more than daily.

Rem bitlocker - nonsense it is use by mega corporations all round the world.

Re. veracrypt failures - just google "veracrypt failure windows upgrades" and see dozens of stories of woe. How much is user error I cannot say but I would not putcall my eggs in ine basket.

I have never heard of bitlocker failing after an upgrade as it is native to Windows and any failure would be picked up in testing.

In the end, your choice but plan for veracrypt failure as a possibility.

Same applies to bitlocker to be fair, but I doubt this is likely to be an issue. Nearly all bitlicker issues relate to lost passwords or recovery keys (user error).

lenovomi · Apr 18, 2023

cereberus said:
Keeping data on a separate partition means you can sync it in real time.

what exactly do u mean by realtime? u cant in case its on one partition?

cereberus said:
It is really overkill backing up OS plus programs more than daily.

agree, thats why I want to backup more frequently only User folder.
whole drive with OS only 1x per day.

cereberus said:
Rem bitlocker - nonsense it is use by mega corporations all round the world.

well but i read its not safe... cant recall, for example ... https://www.sec4you.com/pentest-attack-or-data-recovery-from-bitlocker-encrypted-systems/
yes i googled vera might cause issues, not good... thanks

still not clear on bitlocker.

cereberus · Apr 19, 2023

lenovomi said:
what exactly do u mean by realtime? u cant in case its on one partition?

agree, thats why I want to backup more frequently only User folder.
whole drive with OS only 1x per day.

well but i read its not safe... cant recall, for example ... https://www.sec4you.com/pentest-attack-or-data-recovery-from-bitlocker-encrypted-systems/
yes i googled vera might cause issues, not good... thanks

still not clear on bitlocker.

1. If you keep data on a separate partition, it is easily backed up in real time with any of a number of tools like FreeFileSync

2. You can back up user files on C drive same way but C drive just grows and grows and image backups get larger and larger.

3. Those "proof of concept" security articles are largely overhyped bs to sell their services.

The method used is the TPM sniffing attack on the TPM chip described in March 2019.

The attack requires physical access to the PC, with a specially prepared FPGA (a Field Programmable Gate Array) being attached to the TPM 1.2 or TPM 2.0 as part of the intrusion attempt. During Windows boot with Microsoft encryption enabled, the Volume Master Key (VMK) is transmitted from the TPM to the Windows system, where it is intercepted and logged by the FPGA. This key is used to decrypt the Full Volume Encryption Key (FVEK) of the system drive.

What are the odds, somebody is going to burgle your house with a special device to get your data. Your data would have to be worth millions to an unscrupulous rival!

Unless you are engaging in serious spying or drug dealing, even agencies like MI5 who might have such technology would not even be interested.

The articles do not tell you you can set a Bitlocker PIN that has to be entered BEFORE Windows boot or PC WILL NOT BOOT.

Any thief stealing pc will just wipe drive, but you can also set a bios password to make that more difficult, so they would have to remove drive. Once drive is removed, a TPM sniffer is useless. The drive can only be wiped.

So Strong Bitlocker PIN, Strong Bios Password, Strong Windows Password, Strong Windows (alphanumeric PIN) and your pc is as secure as it can be realistically.

No system is 100% secure, but most security weakness usually comes down to poor user practice.

Of course, some security experts will say I am wrong, but remember they are in the business of selling systems. If you do not think you can make your data secure enough with the simple methods above, then you need to invest in professional systems - Veracrpyt is NOT the answer.

lenovomi · Apr 20, 2023

cereberus said:
1. If you keep data on a separate partition, it is easily backed up in real time with any of a number of tools like FreeFileSync

so are there also some better toos then freefilesync?

cereberus said:
2. You can back up user files on C drive same way but C drive just grows and grows and image backups get larger and larger.

but with incremental .. you dont backup data that hasnt changes, so it doesnt matter, i assume.

cereberus said:
3. Those "proof of concept" security articles are largely overhyped bs to sell their services.

maybe u are right, i need to do some bit more research on it ... i thought veracrypt is safe and now as i googled these issues am skeptic.

thanks

cereberus · Apr 21, 2023

1) google it
2) incrementals are min 15 mins not real time. Also incrementals are till fairly big.
3) Virtually all major corporations use bitlocker - you are overthinking things.

JohnnyFire · Apr 21, 2023

Macrium ALL THE WAY!

jimbo45 · Apr 21, 2023

OK you have a NAS

So :

FROM Windows - Image system as and when - daily if you like and send image to NAS

For DATA - simply on the NAS run rsync or the GUI version (grsync) against data files / disks / directories you need FROM presumably the Windows Machine. rsync has enough options in it (plus the gui version) to backup / overwrite changed data or whatever. --

On the NAS use crontab (or any other job scheduling software --crontab is free and easy to use - but any that gets the job done) to send what you want to the cloud.

Simple -- end of --job done.

BTW do check from time to time especially for system image dumps that a restore (including from a cloud copy) work correctly.

Don't forget that also data held on a NAS should itself be backed up from time to time -- large capacity old school spinners are cheap enough for that job especially if you can attach them via SATA->USB connectors or a "powered HDD enclosure). Note 3.5 inch "Spinners" will need a powered connector if using SATA->HDD via USB connection.

Not sure what the problem is -- seems easy and simple enough to me -- especially if it's a domestic or small home office set up. As others have said you seem to have made this operation over complicated. !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Macrium with Acronis and restic + plus real time ViceVersa PRO

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