Personal PC: Microsoft Account yes or no?

Bree · Jun 19, 2023

cereberus said:
Of course, if your mobo fails, you will need to buy a new licence if you do not have a full retail key, as you will not be able to transfer the digital licence if you use a local account.

To get your PC recorded in your MS account there's no requirement that you have to sign in to your PC with your Microsoft account. It is sufficient to sign in to your MS account just from an app such as Widgets or the Store.

All of my machines, physical or virtual, only have local accounts. All of them are listed as 'Devices' in my MS account.

TraderGary · Jun 19, 2023

Bree said:
To get your PC recorded in your MS account there's no requirement that you have to sign in to your PC with your Microsoft account. It is sufficient to sign in to your MS account just from an app such as Widgets or the Store.

All of my machines, physical or virtual, only have local accounts. All of them are listed as 'Devices' in my MS account.

Since I subscribe to Microsoft 365 and have all of Microsoft Office and a Terabyte of Microsoft OneDrive through my Microsoft Account, it would seem that a local account would be a problem for me.

pparks1 · Jun 19, 2023

TraderGary said:
Since I subscribe to Microsoft 365 and have all of Microsoft Office and a Terabyte of Microsoft OneDrive through my Microsoft Account, it would seem that a local account would be a problem for me.

it works with a local account. That how I am setup. I installed Windows and used a local account.

I then linked my microsoft account to my local account. This ties the two of them together. I still use the local account for local logins to the box, but the store, onedrive, Office365, etc....all use my MS account instead.

There is no advantage to you changing at this point. I do it mostly so that my home folder is C:\users\pat rather than C:\users\patpa (or whatever my MS account would make it). It's just they way i have always done it, and i do what i know.

cereberus · Jun 19, 2023

Bree said:
To get your PC recorded in your MS account there's no requirement that you have to sign in to your PC with your Microsoft account. It is sufficient to sign in to your MS account just from an app such as Widgets or the Store.

View attachment 62814

All of my machines, physical or virtual, only have local accounts. All of them are listed as 'Devices' in my MS account.

View attachment 62816

Yes but that is not the same as a digital licence being linked to your MS account. Look in the activation menu.

If you have a local account, it does not say you have a digital licence linked to your MS account.

Without that specific statement, you cannot transfer your digital licence if the mobo fails.

You have to have an MS account on your pc permanently to retain the digital licence link. You can set up a second login account keeping the MS account.

If you simply change an MS account to a local account, the digital link is lost.

pparks1 · Jun 19, 2023

cereberus said:
Yes but that is not the same as a digital licence being linked to your MS account. Look in the activation menu.

If you have a local account, it does not say you have a digital licence linked to your MS account.

Without that specific statement, you cannot transfer your digital licence if the mobo fails.

I can verify when I get home, but i'm 99.9% sure that mine says digital license linked to my MS account for activation. I use a local account. but I also have my ms account tied in on the machine for services like OneDrive, Office365, Store, etc.

Winuser · Jun 19, 2023

One can always do like I do on both of my mini pcs. They have two users. one user is setup with a local account and the other with a MS account. This way if I ever find the need to access my MS account all I have to do is switch to the other user. I did it this way because I didn't want to setup the mini pcs with a MS account and have my username to be the first five characters of my email address. When it comes to the username I don't know if MS is just being too lazy to fix this problem or just being stupid.

badrobot · Jun 19, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
I'll run Windows, but not from Microsoft, and my association stops there.
NO MS Account, NO Clouds, No Licenses, No keys, No BS!

Excuse me, but my mortician is calling.

TM

Using MS account or paying MS for license will not put you at risk.
Using unlicensed OS with no security updates will.

Edwin · Jun 19, 2023

"To each his own"

Scannerman · Jun 19, 2023

Ghot said:
I don't use it. I use a local account, just like every other Windows version.

Honestly... every day on these forums, I see people having problems with an MS account.
It "may" have been a good idea, but if you don't "need" it... take it out back, kill it, and bury it.

A Microsoft account incorporates some good ideas, but the implementation is pretty bad.

It shouldn't be "forced" on folks, and it should be more like... registering hardware/software at a website... with perks.

Nothing, other than maybe Windows activation, should be "forced" on consumers.
Google is the leader in invasive practices, and Microsoft seems to be trying to emulate Google.

/end rant

Wow, Ghot. You hit the nail on the head with dead on accuracy. I'm guessing it really depends on just how much one desires to own their own hardware. I have one PC with an MS account because I've had an MS account for decades. The rest (well over a dozen) are local. So one might say that I have the best (and worst) of both worlds.

Having put myself in a position where I can speak from experience it behooves me to say that I much prefer having a local account. I also agree that an MS account should be treated like an AP, with the built in right to accept or decline. The hubris that I've seen exemplified in Microsoft's aggressive marketing tactics is APpalling IMO and I am grateful that there are still ways around being coerced into signing up for an MS account in order to have access to the latest operating system. Well, barely.

There is no easy answer to the OP. The the principle of ethics employed here is that with liberty comes responsibility and personal accountability. I would like to say that if George is computer illiterate perhaps an MS account might be a wiser choice. George might also be better off running his updates on automatic as well, and letting the operating system do his thinking for him. To do this, George must be willing to give up a considerable amount of control. Before long George might well be getting things on his PC that he does not want.

I've heard it said that the trust agreements with Microsoft are not about whether the user trusts Microsoft so much as whether Microsoft can trust the user. The same could easily be said of TPM. Although some might insist that this is a horse of a different colour, the same ethics apply. What I find disturbing is the obvious progression toward the monopolization of access to hardware at the user end. Evidently, I can trust Microsoft to take ownership of my hardware to such an extent that I can only run their operating system on my PC to the exclusion of all others, for example. I don't regard this as ethical. I should be free to run as many operating systems on my PC as I like in a multi-boot format without having to reset my UEFI.

Yes, I know I sound as though I'm nit picking, but the direction this is taking is alarming to say the least. The "Don't be evil" people at GOOGLE are yet another example of the blatant hypocrisy that these corporate monopolies engage in. For this reason I refuse to use a GOOGLE browser. No, I do not trust GOOGLE. Or, rather I trust GOOGLE to assume ownership of my PC and do with it what they will. For me, that's not ethical.

My view is that we are encountering an archetypal paradigm that continuously rears its ugly head at practically every level of functionality: Do we want to trade off liberty for security? Because this is the precedent that so many of these corporate pillars are leaning upon today it has become cliche to say the least. Evidently the security they offer is hardly adequate as they continually fail to deliver. It would be prudent to bear in mind that these assurances of security always require the end user to give up more and more of their own liberty and autonomy. If it continues down the road it has been taking we might soon discover that Klaus Schwab lied: We will own nothing and we will NOT be happy.

/end rant/end liberty/end free enterprise

pparks1 · Jun 20, 2023

Well, secure boot is there and is intended to help prevent low level attacks, root kits, etc. The vast majority of Windows user's aren't going to be running more than 1 operating system.

i have no concerns with Google. I'm on chrome now. I use Windows, Mac OS and Linux. All have their own unique challenges and configurations. I typically use a local account, but tied into my Microsoft account. I've had no real concerns.

Scannerman · Jun 20, 2023

pparks1 said:
Well, secure boot is there and is intended to help prevent low level attacks, root kits, etc. The vast majority of Windows user's aren't going to be running more than 1 operating system.

i have no concerns with Google. I'm on chrome now. I use Windows, Mac OS and Linux. All have their own unique challenges and configurations. I typically use a local account, but tied into my Microsoft account. I've had no real concerns.

The UEFI user interface to BIOS was indeed designed for this purpose. Despite efforts to thwart these low level attacks it is common knowledge that root kits, low level attacks etc. still occur. Even with TPM2 security keys have been stolen from victims and TPM is over a decade old. I did state that my rant might sound as though I am nit picking, but it makes a point. My point is that I should not have to jump through so many needless hoops and hurdles simply to run a multi-boot on who's hardware?? A: My hardware.

I was merely using this as an example. There are multiple examples of groups like GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, FARCEBOOK, and the like exploiting the end user and essentially assuming ownership of the hardware. Admittedly, this used to be more of a software issue but not so much anymore. Lenovo got caught with their hand in the cookie jar more than once. I chose the multi-boot example because it was something that I experienced first hand. These days it isn't so easy to run Linux and Windows together on a PC even with Microsoft's bogus Ubuntu kernel. The fact that only a small % of users desire to run Windows and non-Windows operating systems in multi-boot on the same PC is immaterial. Either they own their own hardware and are free to do so or they simply don't. (Or can't.)

The fact that this Consortium has elected to mess with the hardware at the level of BIOS in a manner that generates so many issues for the end user (whether they are aware of it or not) I find greatly disturbing. You may not have any concerns with GOOGLE sinking their hooks into your personal business so deep, but many people are not okay with this. This is a matter of principle. Clearly the "Don't Be Evil" people are not really so principled as they would have the end user think they are. That aside, when it comes to hardware I'm even more adamant over ownership and the liberties such companies are prepared to take with my property. Software is one thing, hardware is another.

AND I find that is really the crux of it: ownership. Not unlike Apple's interference with the right to repair, liberties are being stripped from the end user for proprietary reasons. Well, I like to think that the hardware I purchase is my property. Evidently it isn't enough for these fat cat corporations to leave it at the licensing level of software. No, they want the hardware too. Evidently they have been brainwashed by the likes of Klaus Schwab and Co., who want us all to think that eventually all of us (we, the plebs) will own nothing and be happy. Furthermore they are using this excuse in the promotion of AI as though they are the only ones who can be trusted. Poppycock and balderdash! They've already consistently proven what a sorry excuse they are for security at the hardware level. They have nothing left to trade with so now they just take it. Not ethical at all.

TM21 · Jun 20, 2023

Key words "mobo failure" , "locked out of account" and "lost my password".
As a PC tech of 40+ years, I've had to deal with all of those, and it ain't pretty!
All too often they involve loss of valuable data, family photos, etc. that are irreplaceable.
I had one lady sit down and cry like a baby, when I had to tell her that all her wedding pictures, that she had never backed up, were GONE.

So, mostly with experience dealing with other people's computers, I've set out to avoid all the Pitfalls that running a computer can entail.
Probably 90+% of the cries for HELP on these forums could be avoided by just some simple application of what we used to call Common Sense.
There are some simple rules in life that seem to go unheeded. Like, Don't spit into the wind, When painting the floor, Don't paint yourself into a corner, Don't tug on Supermans's cape, and for Goodness sake, Don't tie yourself to a Corp. bent on World Domination.

All my data files are NEVER on my C: drive, and backed up to several external media, either daily or when the data changes. A DOS Batch file, using XCOPY, does the job very nicely, in just a few seconds.
And I never use passwords on my computer for either the BIOS or Windows.
And, I try to keep my contact with MS down to a bare minimum. If that raises the ire of some folks, so be it.

It's good to see you again, Scannerman!

pparks1 · Jun 20, 2023

Scannerman said:
These days it isn't so easy to run Linux and Windows together on a PC even with Microsoft's bogus Ubuntu kernel. The fact that only a small % of users desire to run Windows and non-Windows operating systems in multi-boot on the same PC is immaterial. Either they own their own hardware and are free to do so or they simply don't. (Or can't.)

Just last week, I took my Beelink Mini-PC which is running Windows 11 Pro, I shrunk the C drive by 40GB, booted from a Rocky Linux USB key and installed that into the 40GB of available space. When i boot up, I get the linux boot loader and can pick either Windows or Linux. I guess I'm just confused as to where the big challenge is, or how my hardware or Windows is preventing me from doing other things with my hardware.

TraderGary · Jun 20, 2023

It's interesting to read the interpretations of others. I read Microsoft's EULA and understand that Microsoft owns their operating system. I do not. I can only do with their operating system what Microsoft allows.

I also understand that Microsoft cannot modify the physical hardware that I own. They can only modify software/firmware that runs on my hardware.

I'm good with my decision to use Microsoft's Windows 11 Pro operating system on my hardware. I have no problems with my understanding of how my hardware works with Microsoft's software.

Scannerman · Jun 20, 2023

pparks1 said:
Just last week, I took my Beelink Mini-PC which is running Windows 11 Pro, I shrunk the C drive by 40GB, booted from a Rocky Linux USB key and installed that into the 40GB of available space. When i boot up, I get the linux boot loader and can pick either Windows or Linux. I guess I'm just confused as to where the big challenge is, or how my hardware or Windows is preventing me from doing other things with my hardware.

That's good news. I hope your dual boot lasts at least a year. If you have time I would really be interested in reading step-by-step instructions on how to run Linux Mint on a multi-boot system in conjunction with Windows 11 on a completely separate drive with TPM and secure boot enabled. :)

Scannerman · Jun 20, 2023

TraderGary said:
It's interesting to read the interpretations of others. I read Microsoft's EULA and understand that Microsoft owns their operating system. I do not. I can only do with their operating system what Microsoft allows.

I also understand that Microsoft cannot modify the physical hardware that I own. They can only modify software/firmware that runs on my hardware.

I'm good with my decision to use Microsoft's Windows 11 Pro operating system on my hardware. I have no problems with my understanding of how my hardware works with Microsoft's software.

I understand that Microsoft is part of a Consortium that has agreed to develop hardware that functions specifically with TPM2.0 to the exclusion of other hardware at the domestic end user level. I understand that TPM is one of the non-optional requirements for running Windows 11 although Microsoft provides step-by-step instructions on how to install Windows 11 on older hardware that does not furnish TPM2 at the end user's own risk. I understand that TPM is over a decade old and has failed consistently in its efforts to provide the sort of security that it has been unable to deliver. Furthermore I am aware that I cannot purchase any new system boards that do not include TPM 2 in UEFI and I am well aware of the fact that it is not as secure as the Consortium would lead users to believe it is.

As a PC builder for over two decades I would not say that I am a novice although I don't assume to know everything. I have no problems with comprehending how my hardware works with Microsoft's new software and that is precisely my reason for objecting to the way some companies use their software to hijack my hardware.

TraderGary · Jun 20, 2023

Scannerman said:
I understand that Microsoft is part of a Consortium that has agreed to develop hardware that functions specifically with TPM2.0 to the exclusion of other hardware at the domestic end user level. I understand that TPM is one of the non-optional requirements for running Windows 11 although Microsoft provides step-by-step instructions on how to install Windows 11 on older hardware that does not furnish TPM at the end user's own risk. I understand that TPM is over a decade old and has failed consistently in its efforts to provide the sort of security that it has been unable to deliver. Furthermore I am aware that I cannot purchase any new system boards that do not include TPM 2 in UEFI and I am well aware of the fact that it is not as secure as the Consortium would lead users to believe it is.

As a PC builder for over two decades I would not say that I am a novice although I don't assume to know everything. I have no problems with comprehending how my hardware works with Microsoft's new software and that is precisely my reason for objecting to the way some companies use their software to hijack my hardware.

Interesting viewpoint. I'm quite sure that Microsoft hasn't hijacked my hardware.

Scannerman · Jun 20, 2023

TraderGary said:
Interesting viewpoint. I'm quite sure that Microsoft hasn't hijacked my hardware.

I don't think it will be necessary if the Consortium continues to have their way. Instead the competition will just be completely muscled out as hardware developers continue to bow to Microsoft. This man here, probably puts it better than I do. He speaks my language:

zebal · Jun 20, 2023

@Scannerman

Microsoft can lock you out of your own disk ... (if you don't have recovery key for bitlocker) that's the problem with secure boot and TPM

@6:29

I in general disagree with most of the video regarding these new security features, if a user lost recovery key it's their fault isn't?

@22:50 is far more interesting though, I agree that Microsoft uses unreasonable search and seizure

If you store data on your computer it's your property.

But MS designed windows in such a way to allow access to your data by default, so yes, it's unreasonable.

badrobot · Jun 20, 2023

TraderGary said:
Interesting viewpoint. I'm quite sure that Microsoft hasn't hijacked my hardware.

When you install Windows OS, it comes with all the drivers and updates to make the OS work on any hardware. That to me is voluntarily allowing MS to "hi-jack" your hardware. I don't have any issue with that. If that's what it takes to enjoy the hardware I built. What is a hardware for without a software anyway?

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