Problems using the Back up and Restore (Windows 7) feature in Windows 11

FrankW · Aug 1, 2022

Bree said:
Who's bashing Microsoft? We are just following Microsoft's own recommendation, first announced in 2017. Surely you'd agree the average user should follow Microsoft's recommendations?

Feature Details and mitigation Deprecation announced
System Image Backup (SIB) Solution We recommend that users use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors. 1709

Deprecated features in the Windows client

Review the list of features that Microsoft is no longer actively developing in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

docs.microsoft.com

As far as I'm aware Microsoft have not recommended any third party anti-spyware, AV, Media Player, encryption or VPN.

My (awkward) remark about some people bashing windows on this forum was not directed at you Bree!
File History (I never got it to work) was depreciated at the same time as W7 Backup & Restore but is still present in Windows 11. With the early W10 versions (2015-2016) having only MS Defender running as AV you would get a stern warning after booting that the system was unprotected and that you should immediately install 3rd party AV software: I always ignored that and never had a virus or malware attack but did get a few warnings from MS Defender that it had disabled/deleted malware. Look up the other apps that I mention and you will find some 3rd party recommendations for those as well.

ThrashZone · Aug 1, 2022

scott784 said:
Well, your instructions worked like a charm.

The only problem I ran into was the fact that after going to "Other Tasks" and "Create Rescue Media", I never had the option to choose CD/DVD burner. However, I had a spare 8GB Kinston USB stick. So I just stuck that into my PC and I then had the option of choosing my spare USB stick to create the bootable rescue media. Perhaps a lot of CDs don't have enough space; and therefore can't accommodate the creation of the media? But the USB stick worked great; and I am sure it's a better choice anyway. And, as you said, faster to create the media on a USB device versus a CD/DVD. Btw, the creation tool defaulted to "WinRE" so I just left it at that since I don't know the differences anyway.

I did test the bootable media; and it works (F8 key in my case) to access the boot menu on my PC. Now, my "last task" will be to simply ensure that I understand how to correctly use an image backup from Macrium Reflect, in the event I ever need to reinstall Windows 11 from a backup image. I've done it before using Window's built-in software, but not using Macrium Reflect. I see there's TONS of information about Macrium Reflect in the manual. But I really only need to become familiar with the basics of doing imaging and separately file/folder backups and restores for home use.

Macrium Reflect does appear to be a very popular program choice for backups; and I see there's a paid version too. Although I am not entirely sure I need a paid version. My trial is for 30 days before it reverts to the free version without payment.

Thanks again :)

Hi,
I usually create both cd and usb recovery winpe media

Not sure what all the fuss is about winpe recovery media has always been reliable restoring and creating system images so why switch to winre when winpe is not broken.

Think the fuss was about adding the winpe recovery boot option and relying on it because it might get corrupted but that is why you always create the cd/ usb recovery winpe

I use usb winpe primarily to create system images as well while the os is not active might as well get used to the boot media environment one day you will need it and you'll be more familiar with it if you use it a lot.

ThrashZone · Aug 1, 2022

scott784 said:
I've been using Macrium Reflect since I posted this thread in May. It's very easy to use, and just works! I would highly recommend Macrium Reflect to others. Of course, as cereberus said, best to also have another backup method as well. And Cloud storage is good these days.

Hi,
Cloud is for stuff you don't care what happens to it is not for critical personal files.
Mainly because terms of use/ space or in the latest example amazon is ending free storage

Only secondary backup worth beans is a second/.. system image or simple copy/ paste of personal files to another hdd in another location on the extreme otherwise just a second would suffice.

SIW2 · Aug 1, 2022

If the macrium buffs eventually manage to scare enough people away from using sib, then MS might remove it. They have renegged before, so it is hard to tell. Users that want to make vhd(x) images can do so with wbadmin and continue to have all the advantages of the format, and though it is a bit fiddly doing restores via cmdline it also adds flexibility.

cereberus · Aug 1, 2022

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
I usually create both cd and usb recovery winpe media

Not sure what all the fuss is about winpe recovery media has always been reliable restoring and creating system images so why switch to winre when winpe is not broken.

Think the fuss was about adding the winpe recovery boot option and relying on it because it might get corrupted but that is why you always create the cd/ usb recovery winpe

I use usb winpe primarily to create system images as well while the os is not active might as well get used to the boot media environment one day you will need it and you'll be more familiar with it if you use it a lot.

With regards to Reflect, WinRe is the recommended (default) method now for W10/11.
Its key plus is it enables backup over wifi (a feature I use with my travel laptop), and avoids 1 GB downloads of wadk files.

It is also better in identifying drivers needed for a Rescue drive. On my pc, WinPE has to manually add the dreaded Intel IRST drivers to a Winpe Rescue drive whereas the WinRe Rescue drive picked it up automatically.

In the end, it does not matter which you select so long as it works for you.

Of course, as you say you still need a physical backup drive.

Try3 · Aug 1, 2022

FrankW said:
With the early W10 versions (2015-2016) having only MS Defender running as AV you would get a stern warning after booting that the system was unprotected and that you should immediately install 3rd party AV software

Frank,

Something non-Windows was generating that warning.
WD would warn you if it was turned off but it soon restarted itself anyway when people tried that and would not have recommended 3rd party software in any case.
Malwarebytes can generate warnings similar to yours when it starts but would have recommended upgrading to their full package.

Denis

FrankW · Aug 1, 2022

Try3 said:
Frank,

Something non-Windows was generating that warning.
WD would warn you if it was turned off but it soon restarted itself anyway when people tried that and would not have recommended 3rd party software in any case.
Malwarebytes can generate warnings similar to yours when it starts but would have recommended upgrading to their full package.

Denis

Hi Denis,
Windows Defender (Spyware protection only) replaced Microsoft Security Essentials (W7 full AV) in 2015 (W8-W10). In 2016 Windows Defender evolved in Microsoft Defender (full AV). During this transition period, if no other AV installed, you would get a warning in W10 that your system was unprotected and you should download a 3rd party AV program. This message was not generated by malware while the Windows Security icon in the Notification Area would always stay red during sessions.

Frank

Try3 · Aug 1, 2022

Frank,

Windows defender [later renamed] has been a full anti-malware [including anti-virus] application throughout the life of Windows 10 from its Preview versions onwards.
The Windows 10 version of Windows defender was never just an anti-spyware utility.
The change from Windows defender to Microsoft defender was just a change of name not of capability.

My Windows 10 computers have never had any real-time protection other than Windows defender and have never had any MS-generated third-party recommendation.

All the best,
Denis

FrankW · Aug 1, 2022

Hi Denis,
This is 7 years back and perhaps I am confusing the issue from before I upgraded to W10 from W7. But Windows Defender in W7 was Spyware only, that is why I had Microsoft Security Essentials running on top of Windows Defender in W7. The evolvement to Microsoft Defender in 2016 was not just the name it became an AV platform, possibly you had an advanced version of W10 or this may all have happened during W8.1

Cheers
Frank

Try3 · Aug 1, 2022

Frank,

Windows defender in Windows 10 was a full AV utility from the start, including its 2013/4-2015 Preview period.
It was not well-regarded at first but it improved dramatically within a few years.
The change of name came later and was not associated with any advance in capability. It was not an evolution, merely a name change.

I never had Windows 8. I believe that Windows defender in Windows 8 became a full anti-malware utility at some stage but whether it was throughout its life I do not know.

Whatever was generating the warning that you referred to, it was not Windows 10.

I started using normal release versions of Windows 10 at its release in 2015. I left the Preview [Insiders] programme then. July 2015 I think it was. So my Windows 10 has never been 'advanced'.
Neither has my Windows 11.

All the best,
Denis

PerpetualCycle · Aug 2, 2022

FrankW said:
I am not knocking Macrium or other BU software on the market other than Seagate's Dashboard 2018 (that was a disaster). But I find it a bit hollow that some posters on this largest (and best) Windows forum are plugging 3rd party apps (while bashing windows). IMHO if you have a Windows 11 PC (factory configuration) connected with W11 compatible devices you don't need any 3rd party software to use Windows 11 to its fullest extent (excluding gaming, technical or customized applications) and BTW VSS is working fine in Windows 11; as I stated before I never had issues with W7 Backup & Restore but had almost no need to restore from external image files either: I just used the internal System Restore app in Windows 10 a few times between 2015-2018 after editing the Registry, installing bad software or deleting a system file. When MS decides to discontinue W7 BU & Restore in Windows I may well buy a trusted BU licence like Macrium Reflect or use the Cloud like Apple is doing to backup and restore.

No offense to you, but Windows System restore and Windows 7 backup were always crap in my book. I never had so many problems trying to use them to restore system state. They just failed quite often. I turned away from them to third party backup software a long time ago and have never looked back.

FrankW · Aug 2, 2022

Try3 said:
I started using normal release versions of Windows 10 at its release in 2015. I left the Preview [Insiders] programme then. July 2015 I think it was. So my Windows 10 has never been 'advanced'.
Neither has my Windows 11.

All the best,
Denis

Denis
In 2015 I migrated (online) from W7 with MSE (AV) to W10 v. 1507 and maybe Windows Defender was not included (had to be downloaded separately). That would explain these warnings I was getting. When I upgraded to later W10 versions Microsoft defender was automatically downloaded and I now had AV protection (no more warnings). That is the only explanation I can think of, thanks for straightening me out on this.
Frank

Dru2 · Aug 2, 2022

FrankW said:
Hi Bree,

Likewise I can also share “horror” stories about non-Windows Backup software, plenty posted......

As you see anyone daring to mention Windows Backup and that it works is committing a great sin here worthy of the wrath you see. And if you aren't using, as well as pushing, Macrium and acknowledging Windows backup actually still works.... that's blasphemy.

On the serious (not that the above wasn't), there is some truth that Microsoft depreciated the program and suggests you look elsewhere; however, if you're not doing anything outside of the basic design of the app and it works good on you. All that said, it is an app no longer maintained, so....

Anyway, I myself use Acronis for my backup and recovery. Even though Acronis is also a bad name here

FrankW · Aug 2, 2022

geneo said:
No offense to you, but Windows System restore and Windows 7 backup were always crap in my book. I never had so many problems trying to use them to restore system state. They just failed quite often. I turned away from them to third party backup software a long time ago and have never looked back.

No offense taken, my experience with W7 BU & Restore is limited to restoring personal files and creating Image files only. In all those years I made maybe 1 or 2 complete System Restores from a backed up image file using the Recovery USB app. All my other System Restores were done with the internal Windows System Restore app (see picture below), so I have no way of knowing how reliable these W7 backups actually are. Judging from all the negative reactions and Microsoft's own recommendation to use 3rd party Backup software it would seem not very reliable. The W7 BU & Restore interface is straight forward and almost automatic once used (with a simple HDD only setup, no Dual boot and same external HDD used as before). I wonder why posters on this thread restore exclusely from USB/Safe Mode and not with the W11 System Restore utility, do people crash that often, W11 is one of the most stable OS I have ever used.

FrankW · Aug 2, 2022

Dru2 said:
As you see anyone daring to mention Windows Backup and that it works is committing a great sin here worthy of the wrath you see. And if you aren't using, as well as pushing, Macrium and acknowledging Windows backup actually still works.... that's blasphemy.

On the serious (not that the above wasn't), there is some truth that Microsoft depreciated the program and suggests you look elsewhere; however, if you're not doing anything outside of the basic design of the app and it works good on you. All that said, it is an app no longer maintained, so....

Anyway, I myself use Acronis for my backup and recovery. Even though Acronis is also a bad name here

Thanks Dru2, I needed a bit of support

.
Frank

Dru2 · Aug 2, 2022

FrankW said:
No offense taken, my experience with W7 BU & Restore is limited to restoring personal files and creating Image files only. In all those years I made maybe 1 or 2 complete System Restores from a backed up image file using the Recovery USB app. All my other System Restores were done with the internal Windows Sytem Restore app (see picture below), so I have no way of knowing how reliable these W7 backups actually are.
View attachment 35451

Have to ask, but you are aware the image you present above has nothing to do with backing up a PC, right?

System Restore only creates a snapshot of the Registry and system files. It does NOT backup personal files and folders. Hope you're not thinking that as a "backup program" cause if you are, you have no backups!!!

FrankW · Aug 2, 2022

Dru2 said:
Have to ask, but you are aware the image you present above has nothing to do with backing up a PC, right?

System Restore only creates a snapshot of the Registry and system files. It does NOT backup personal files and folders. Hope you're not thinking that as a "backup program" cause if you are, you have no backups!!!

Apples & Oranges? Yes I get your point, just the Registry and some settings will be restored with Sytem Restore (my picture) and none of the other Windows controls (services, tasks, etc.). Ofice and all other programs will also not be backed up, so that explains why people make complete computer backups (that was dumb....). I do monthly backups after an update with W7 BU and hope it will restore 100% my system.

Dru2 · Aug 2, 2022

FrankW said:
Apples & Oranges? Yes I get your point, just the Registry and some settings will be restored with Sytem Restore (my picture) and none of the other Windows controls (services, tasks, etc.). Ofice and all other programs will also not be backed up, so that explains why people make complete computer backups (that was dumb....)

Ok. Just making sure you know what app does what.

FrankW said:
I do monthly backups after an update with W7 BU and hope it will restore 100% my system.

While it's always good to hope, it's not so good for backups!!! Here "hope" is a dangerous thing as it leaves "doubt". I don't need doubt when I'm trying to recover my critical files. I need to know the process works! Peace of mind is testing to insure it works. No "hoping" involved.

Good luck

Bree · Aug 2, 2022

FrankW said:
Hi Denis,
This is 7 years back and perhaps I am confusing the issue from before I upgraded to W10 from W7. But Windows Defender in W7 was Spyware only, that is why I had Microsoft Security Essentials running on top of Windows Defender in W7.

That is completely true....

FrankW said:
The evolvement to Microsoft Defender in 2016 was not just the name it became an AV platform, possibly you had an advanced version of W10 or this may all have happened during W8.1

Defender became a full AV for Windows 8 and above. Since then the only real changes have been to the name given to it, and the extra layers on top of it like Windows 10/11's ransomware protection. See this article from 2013:

Can I use Microsoft Security Essentials with Windows 8? | Microsoft Security Blog

A reader writes: Can I use Microsoft Security Essentials with Windows 8? No—but you don’t need to. Windows 8 includes Windows Defender, a program that provides enhanced protection against viruses and spyware. Learn more about Windows 8 If your computer is running Windows 7, Windows Vista, or...

www.microsoft.com

As a matter of interest, the only updates Win7 still gets to this day are for the AV protection, MSE and the MSRT. MSE in W7 uses the same scan engine and virus definitions as W11's Windows Security. Only the Client Version (the graphical user interface) is different.

FrankW · Aug 3, 2022

Dru2 said:
Anyway, I myself use Acronis for my backup and recovery. Even though Acronis is also a bad name here

You got me worried now and I am browsing software to quickly check the integrity of my BU image files, I reaf that AOMEI does that (not for creating backups, just to check my existing ones? I believe AOMEI is trusted by the windows community. MS states that the only way is to restore the image file: "by removing the drive (simply disconnect the SATA cable) and install a new (fresh out of the box) hard drive. Then restore the image to the new hard drive and see if you can boot the computer and Windows functions properly without any problems."
Thanks

Problems using the Back up and Restore (Windows 7) feature in Windows 11

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