read only directories 24H2

jepi · Jan 15, 2025

From the 24H2 update, all directories seen by Windows Explorer are checked read-only.
This attribute is not actually active. Indeed, the display of attributes in Windows Explorer indicates the 'DA' attributes for these same directories and in no case the 'R' attribute. So it is possible to create and modify files in these directories.
However some applications like Jriver MC29 (or Vortex it seems as indicated in https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-11-folder-keeps-reverting-back-to- read/982dc5db-bb60-4d77-aabe-6094a8e90e1a?page=1) can no longer delete, modify files from their databases.
Having recently performed the 24h2 update, I was able to return to the 23H2 version. Unfortunately the read-only checkmarks remain and I can no longer use Jriver under version 23H2. I have tried many methods to get around this problem, in vain!
What can I do?
Translate from french by google

antspants · Jan 15, 2025

Hi, welcome. Unless its a tick you;’re good to go.

Do you mean this solid box?

It shouldn’t prevent you from accessing or using your files in the folder.

LesFerch said:
Note that item is labelled "Read-only (Only applies to files in the folder)"

That means it has absolutely nothing to do with the read-only status of the folder itself. You can see that for yourself with the Attrib command. If you look carefully, you will see that the box is always a solid block, on ALL folders, even if there are zero files marked read-only within the folder.

It is, in fact, not an indicator at all! It is just a dual-purpose command, implemented as a checkbox. Microsoft should never have used a checkbox for a command because it just causes confusion (there are many other posts like yours).

This is all it does:

When you click that box clear, you're telling Windows that you want to unset read-only from any files that may be read-only within the folder and its subfolders. When you check the box, you're telling Windows you want to set all files within the folder and its subfolders to read-only. Whether you set or unset, it only affects files. The read-only state of the folder, and any of its subfolders, is not affected. Only files are affected.

So, the item labeled "Read-only (Only applies to files in the folder)" does not indicate anything.

Unless you are actually having some problem, you can completely ignore this item.

If you are having some problem, that is causing one or more files within a folder to be changed to read-only, then this item may be used to provide relief (possibly temporary) by unsetting the read-only attributes of files within the folder. The problem with this bad Microsoft interface design is that it is misleading you into believing that Windows "keeps resetting my folder to read-only". And that certainly distracts from finding the root cause of whatever problem you may be having.

You cannot view or change the Read-only or the System attributes of folders in Windows Server 2003, in Windows XP, in Windows Vista or in Windows 7 - Microsoft Support

Provides step-by-step instructions on how to use the "Attrib" command to work around the inability to view or to remove the Read-only or the System attributes of folders in Windows Server 2003, Windows XP, and Windows Vista.

support.microsoft.com

I can’t tell you why jriver has issues. Reinstall or update it?

LesFerch · Jan 15, 2025

Thanks @antspants. @jepi also posted this question on answers.microsoft.com. My reply:

The item labelled "Read-only (only applies to files in folder)" does NOT indicate that your folders are read-only. That may seem counterintuitive, but as I stated many times previously, it's just a poorly designed interface that confuses people and it has not changed in 24H2. Please read my previous replies for further details.

As stated previously, the issue with some applications, such as Vortex, is most likely caused by OneDrive. If your application's data is in a folder that OneDrive is involved with, that could be the cause. AV software or restrictive settings, such as Controlled Folder Access, may also be the cause. There may have been some change in 24H2 that is making the issue worse (TBD), but it's nothing to do with that checkbox control.

dacrone · Jan 15, 2025

LesFerch said:
Thanks @antspants. @jepi also posted this question on answers.microsoft.com. My reply:

The item labelled "Read-only (only applies to files in folder)" does NOT indicate that your folders are read-only. That may seem counterintuitive, but as I stated many times previously, it's just a poorly designed interface that confuses people and it has not changed in 24H2. Please read my previous replies for further details.

As stated previously, the issue with some applications, such as Vortex, is most likely caused by OneDrive. If your application's data is in a folder that OneDrive is involved with, that could be the cause. AV software or restrictive settings, such as Controlled Folder Access, may also be the cause. There may have been some change in 24H2 that is making the issue worse (TBD), but it's nothing to do with that checkbox control.

it's always been a poor design that Microsoft refuses to remedy. a Check means that dir and all subdir are Read-Only. a Square like the above image means that some of the subdir are Read-Only. just another half-measure by the dev team (for decades now)

LesFerch · Jan 16, 2025

dacrone said:
it's always been a poor design that Microsoft refuses to remedy. a Check means that dir and all subdir are Read-Only. a Square like the above image means that some of the subdir are Read-Only. just another half-measure by the dev team (for decades now)

Yup, a solid block is supposed to mean "one or more", so they are breaking there own standards because it's a solid block even when there are zero read-only files in the folder.

The Microsoft engineers probably didn't want to have the overhead of a recursive scan of the entire folder to enumerate the files for read-only status every time you select Properties, which is fine, but then they should not have used a checkbox. The interface should simply be two buttons. One that sets the read-only attribute for all files, and one that clears the attribute from all files. There should be no implied status when there is absolutely zero actual status.

If I were in charge I would get rid of it altogether. Attributes can be set/unset easily via the command line if actually needed. It currently just causes no end of XY problem posts.

jepi · Jan 16, 2025

Thanks to all. As I say in my post, I know read only is a long time ago bug.
Workaround some posts, my search is for Jriver unable to write new tags or modify an delete some files since update 24h2 and rollback 23h2

LesFerch · Jan 16, 2025

jepi said:
Thanks to all. As I say in my post, I know read only is a long time ago bug.
Workaround some posts, my search is for Jriver unable to write new tags or modify an delete some files since update 24h2 and rollback 23h2

The "Read-only (only applies to files in folder)" is not a bug. It's just a poor interface design.

We don't have enough information to help you. For example, what is the folder path? Is this on a server? What AV software are you using? Do you have CFA (Controlled Folder Access) enabled? Do you have the same issue with other software? Have you tested with another local account?

If rolling back to 23H2 resolves the issue, maybe we can help find a more specific fix, but we'll need full details to install the same software, in the same way, in order to (hopefully) replicate the issue.

dacrone · Jan 16, 2025

LesFerch said:
The "Read-only (only applies to files in folder)" is not a bug. It's just a poor interface design.

We don't have enough information to help you. For example, what is the folder path? Is this on a server? What AV software are you using? Do you have CFA (Controlled Folder Access) enabled? Do you have the same issue with other software? Have you tested with another local account?

If rolling back to 23H2 resolves the issue, maybe we can help find a more specific fix, but we'll need full details to install the same software, in the same way, in order to (hopefully) replicate the issue.

its a permissions issue. definitely did not require a rollback.

johnlgalt · Jan 16, 2025

jepi said:
I was able to return to the 23H2 version. Unfortunately the read-only checkmarks remain and I can no longer use Jriver under version 23H2.

Unfortunately, rolling back did not help him - and it *seems* like others have had this exact issue, if I read his previous posts correctly:

Works fine in 23H2 before upgrading
Breaks after upgrading to 24H2
Remains broken after downgrading back to 23H2

LesFerch · Jan 16, 2025

@dacrone and @johnlgalt thanks for translating/clarifying. If the data is in the same place, it would seem unlikely that the ACLs were changed (but not ruling it out). It sounds to me more like something blocking/interfering. It would be good to have just one example we could replicate on demand. I keep seeing posts with read-only complaints, but lack of detail to work with.

johnlgalt · Jan 16, 2025

Agreed. Upgrading the OS won't change ACLs - or, rather, I should say that it shouldn't change the ACLs.

It didn't for me when I upgraded from 23H2 to 24H2 last year via Insiders Release Preview.

However, it might have changed enough in the system to break how JRiver actually works. And, thus, I think a re-installation of JRiver might be next on the menu.

Placement of the files it is trying to tag could also be an issue - if the user has only a single drive, then even the files being tagged are on C:\ somewhere, and that, in and of itself, could be a contributing factor.

@jepi can you confirm if you only have a single drive in your P520c workstation?

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