Something Happened on the way to the Lab

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

I'm not really sure how to open this discussion but something is nagging on me and it's like a sliver under my skin because I honestly don't know how to fix it. I received a phone call yesterday from my wife (she works in a lab) and she told me to get there pronto. She said their system wouldn't display on the monitor and to please bring some capable graphics cards with me. The lab owner was stressed right out and nobody knew what to do.

So, I had her take some pictures and send them to me and started rooting through some boxes of hardware and found some old GFX cards that I had tested and knew worked. I brought them with me and proceeded to head off to the lab in my van. When I got there the employees were obviously in a state. Apparently there was a huge project on the line and they needed a proper PC that worked with the client. Given the nature of the hardware and the diagnostic equipment associated with the PC I appreciated the urgency of the situation and proceeded to make my own system checks.

They were quite sure that it was a graphics issue. I wasn't so sure about that. They had a "duplicate" PC with most of the hardware removed but clearly the PSU had seen better days. It had a considerable amount of carbon that had blown out of the exhaust on the back. I mean this was really, really bad, like there was a fire in it at some point. Anyway, I humored them and replaced the GFX card in the original only to learn what I had already suspected: The original unit would not display. By that time the owner of the lab had returned and I suggested that we swap the PSU into the parts unit and transfer the proprietary cards to it and give it a run. The lab owner gave me the go ahead and about 15 minutes later they were hooked up and running the client. It seriously didn't take long.

Now I'm not sure how long this quick fix Frankenfritter will last but at least it got them back on track so that they could finish the project. But I noticed something about that PSU that gives me the jitters. It was so corroded that it's no wonder it caught on fire. And I'm thinking how long will it be before the chemicals in that lab don't do the same thing to the working PSU. The PC sits directly under the test bench. Now I'm not certain that the system board in the original was the culprit or not. It could have been anything but they at least had a functional unit with onboard graphics giving them what they needed. I'm just wondering if I should tell the owner that I think corrosion to the PSU is what made it burn out and die and what I could offer in the way of remedy for this. I think it is a safety concern.

pparks1 · Jul 21, 2023

Scannerman said:
I'm just wondering if I should tell the owner that I think corrosion to the PSU is what made it burn out and die and what I could offer in the way of remedy for this. I think it is a safety concern.

Well, right off the bat.....doesn't this place of employment have an IT department that takes care of their equipment? I mean it' nice of you to save the day and help out your wife, but is this really your responibility?

Second, none of us know what type of chemicals are present in that lab and what the impact could be on the systems. i would expect whomever is in charge of the lab has knowledge in this area to equip the lab with appropriate equipment. they must have other equipment running in the lab, is it all corroded and burning out.

hsehestedt · Jul 21, 2023

Yeah, I've seen some systems in environments where motherboards and other electronic components would corrode. In fact, it was so bad that we voided all equipment warranties for one customer.

Imagine what that does to humans?

In any case, one small step to consider: Many PC power supplies these days have zero RPM fans when not under heavy load. In other words, they will not suck in any air at all unless the PSU is under moderate load.

Likewise, system fans can often be set to ingest minimal amounts of air or none at all when system is merely idling.

That would at least minimize the effect and perhaps extend the lifespan of a PC.

EDIT: Another thought along the same lines. I don't know what kind of performance they need, but there are quite a few Mini PCs these days that are completely fanless. Some of them actually have very decent performance, obtained by having nice big heat sinks. These are often sealed and specifically designed for harsh environments.

glasskuter · Jul 21, 2023

If the work they perform is critical and the environment is questionable, IMO they should always have a backup system hidden away someplace else ready to go in emergencies. The troubleshooting of the dead system can be done elsewhere.

If the work environment is such it affects electronics, it would also affect humans. One would think the EPA would be all over it. What kind of testing is done in this lab? If it's that bad have they never heard of a clean room to separate the employees and testing equipment from whatever it is they are testing? Heck, even X-ray rooms separate their employees and control equipment from the actual x-ray machine voo-doo rays.

Ghot · Jul 21, 2023

@Scannerman

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TM21 · Jul 21, 2023

I've worked on PC's in the past that were in harsh environments.
They were kept in mini Clean Rooms, with fans and filters to make sure the PC was kept cool and clean.
Sounds like that lab needs something like that.

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

Ghot said:
@Scannerman

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Thank you Ghot. This is, IMO, the right approach to what she's got going on in the lab, but she's not gonna do it. As far as I understand it the PC is at least a decade old (if not older) and the proprietary card (s) will only work with this specific model of system board. The lab primarily concerns itself with the oil industry (although it does provide services in other commercial and medical interests). I would like to get the cloned "sister" board functional again, but this is entirely the lab owner's decision.

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
I've worked on PC's in the past that were in harsh environments.
They were kept in mini Clean Rooms, with fans and filters to make sure the PC was kept cool and clean.
Sounds like that lab needs something like that.

They have stuff like that but where the PC is being used I don't think it's getting much protection in that environment. I recognize the corrosion pattern on the PSU from the days when I did electrical work out in the patch. I'm pretty sure it's the result of H2S but I'm no expert. I got the wife a nice field lab laptop that can connect to a myriad of ports and has a huge battery but it won't work with the client that runs on the PC in question. It's completely isolated from the internet. The results can only be printed out via serial port.

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

glasskuter said:
If the work they perform is critical and the environment is questionable, IMO they should always have a backup system hidden away someplace else ready to go in emergencies. The troubleshooting of the dead system can be done elsewhere.

If the work environment is such it affects electronics, it would also affect humans. One would think the EPA would be all over it. What kind of testing is done in this lab? If it's that bad have they never heard of a clean room to separate the employees and testing equipment from whatever it is they are testing? Heck, even X-ray rooms separate their employees and control equipment from the actual x-ray machine voo-doo rays.

Yeah, they have a clean room but that's not where this PC is located. Perhaps it is something that had happened from an incident long ago. One can only guess. I don't want to tell her how to run her lab but if she values her equipment she should consider providing better protection for it. As I understand it it was the backup that I had to repair by cannibalizing the original with the burnt out PSU. So as it stands, they don't have a backup anymore. Hopefully she'll let me play with what's left of the thing to get it to post. I'm not a certified IT but I have a knack for fixing things. Perhaps I'm just sweating the details and should mind my own business but...

I'm not built that way!

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

hsehestedt said:
Yeah, I've seen some systems in environments where motherboards and other electronic components would corrode. In fact, it was so bad that we voided all equipment warranties for one customer.

Imagine what that does to humans?

In any case, one small step to consider: Many PC power supplies these days have zero RPM fans when not under heavy load. In other words, they will not suck in any air at all unless the PSU is under moderate load.

Likewise, system fans can often be set to ingest minimal amounts of air or none at all when system is merely idling.

That would at least minimize the effect and perhaps extend the lifespan of a PC.

EDIT: Another thought along the same lines. I don't know what kind of performance they need, but there are quite a few Mini PCs these days that are completely fanless. Some of them actually have very decent performance, obtained by having nice big heat sinks. These are often sealed and specifically designed for harsh environments.

Honestly. This thing looked like it had a fire in it. Despite all their safety protocols I have wondered just how safe my wife's working environment is. I recognize that corrosion pattern and it ain't pretty. If I manage to get my hands on that system board again just might pop a blower fan in the case so that it doesn't matter what kind of OS is being run when turned on. We are talking vintage equipment here and the proprietary cards only work with Win 7 and are calibrated to work only with this specific board model. I'm guessing it's a "security" thing.

Ghot · Jul 21, 2023

Scannerman said:
They have stuff like that but where the PC is being used I don't think it's getting much protection in that environment. I recognize the corrosion pattern on the PSU from the days when I did electrical work out in the patch. I'm pretty sure it's the result of H2S but I'm no expert. I got the wife a nice field lab laptop that can connect to a myriad of ports and has a huge battery but it won't work with the client that runs on the PC in question. It's completely isolated from the internet. The results can only be printed out via serial port.

They also make "enclosures" for normal PCs, so they can function in hazardous environments.

Try Googling: PC enclosures for hazardous environments?

Note: My Chemistry professor would be so proud. I "remembered" that H2S was hydrogen sulfide.
And that was from 39-40 years ago.

Scannerman · Jul 21, 2023

pparks1 said:
Well, right off the bat.....doesn't this place of employment have an IT department that takes care of their equipment? I mean it' nice of you to save the day and help out your wife, but is this really your responibility?

Second, none of us know what type of chemicals are present in that lab and what the impact could be on the systems. i would expect whomever is in charge of the lab has knowledge in this area to equip the lab with appropriate equipment. they must have other equipment running in the lab, is it all corroded and burning out.

Good questions and yeah, they have an IT but he's not available as he has taken a leave of absence. And no, it's really not my responsibility. In fact, technically I should be retired but what does one do when there's no one else around to do it?

These are valid questions. The oil industry up this way runs slightly on the redneck side of life. They do what it takes to get the job done. The Covid fiasco killed much of the protocols associated with the lab. Then came the wild fire evacuations. It has been an interesting five years. The suggestions here have helped me and I appreciate them.

I would like to thank everyone for their help. Thank you. I'm going to discuss this with my wife and see what can be done.

Scannerman · Sep 15, 2023

*Status Update*

So the lab (which I am not at liberty to mention by name) runs a lot of tests on air quality, water, and soil. (They even do Covid testing.) The sorts of chemicals and corrosives in that place are enough to make one want to run for cover. The only reason I'm allowed in the actual lab itself is because I've proven time and time again that I know what I'm doing. (Of course, it helps to be married to someone who works there.) I still have to follow the protocols when I'm there and one of those is nobody leaves with a hard drive that belongs to the lab. Fair enough.

*Recap*

I communicated with the owner that although they were running on their backup system just fine they only have one other system board in the place that will work with the proprietary cards that she uses for a very specialized device that costs a ridiculous amount of money. If that backup system goes like the other one did she'll be out of options. So I had permission to take it home and see if I could get it running (minus the hard drive).

Diagnosis and repair

As I mentioned in sundry communications the original unit needed a power supply and if the PC in the picture looks shabby to you, then you should see the other guy. I don't know what made the original PSU look so corroded but it was definitely toast. I managed to dig out a PSU that was compatible with the system board and hooked it up and hit the power button. Still nothing. Checked all the connections again. I was about ready to give it up. There was nothing visibly wrong with the board. All the caps looked to be in good condition and surprisingly there were no heat spots or discolouring on the board to be found. So just for the fun of it I plugged in a hard drive. Lo, and behold it fired up but would not display. The side of the case boasted a Radeon ATI 5450 graphics card but there was none to be found on the board so I dug into my parts and found one and installed it. Fired it up again and viola! The system displayed. Turned the unit off and 10 seconds later it turned itself back on again. I inspected the board again and noted that the line to the power switch was pinched beneath the frame work for the hard drives. I managed to free up this line and turned it back on again. Sure enough I got action. The board started beeping. I re-seated the RAM and tried again. Still beeping. So, I removed the graphics card to get to the battery and replaced the CMOS battery. Just for kicks I hooked up the VGA to the onboard graphics and turned the system back on. It worked. It saw the hard drive. I made all the relevant settings, time and date etc. and shut it down.

The power button still seems to be a little fussy. It requires a quick tap to turn off the system anything longer than a couple of seconds when it is depressed will result in the system booting itself up again. I'm not really authorized to do any additional work on this unit so I didn't mess with the CD/DVD ROM drive. I would need to install an OS on the thing and I don't have permission to do this. I recovered the system but it still has some minor issues it seems. I'll have to talk to the owner of the lab before I can proceed with any more work. The goal was get the board up and running and I've done it.

hsehestedt · Sep 15, 2023

Good job, Scannerman!

Scannerman · Sep 16, 2023

Thanks. I managed to keep another box out of the trash and hopefully it'll still be good for a few more years. The cards they use in this thing are worth more than my entire network but they only work properly with specific system boards so having a functional backup is vital.

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