Solved What could be making File Explorer default to legacy (and with bugs) at a clean install of 24H2?

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

Hello,

I "have reasons to suspect" that the problem comes from the fact that I modded the image with NTLite :lmao:

No hiding that. No need to, I had a proud working modding routine, but 24H2 is weird. No modding software really works on it with constant reliability.
So, tbh I'm relatively confident that this issue doesn't come from a mistake of mine, but from a bug in NTLite or let's say an incompatibility with the problematic 24H2.
And yet I cannot exclude human error and I'm here to narrow down as much as possible where I should focus my search.

I will tell you exactly what happens, so maybe you super experts can think about something which would potentially cause that.

I had some problematic back and forth with the ISO from UUP Dump, but the Microsoft one worked well.
Only issue: although I had removed the legacy Explorer, File Explorer completely and passionately defaulted to legacy, with even an old school "Windows Blue" as accent color.
On top of that, in the Home where there should be the Quick Access there's just an empty background.
I tried pinning My PC to Quick Access and it appeared in the left panel together with the other folders which are usually in Quick Access.
But the home is still empty.
And finally, the navigation arrows on the left of the address bar don't work, most of the times.
Although I can navigate with the side buttons of my mouse, which get automatically assigned to back and forward.

I swear, I only removed things which I either knew well, or was reasonably certain about after a thorough search.
Before burning the ISO I saved the "preset" of my mods, and now I applied it on the ISO from Microsoft, and I can't see any mod which would cause this.

Now more context: the CU KB5051987 solved this issue.
So I'm not stressed. I mean, I have a "solution".
But still, I want to understand what's going on, and correct whatever made it happen.
In fact I didn't install any CU in this second attempt, so I can try things out.

Can you think at anything which might cause all that?
Thanks

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

So, if you are curious you can have a look at this txt which I took from the preset of my tweaks to this installation.
The preset has lot of things like languages and wifi packages which make it very long, so I have taken only the relevant things like the apps, features and services which I have removed/disabled.

I just can't fathom how any of that could ever possibly make the Explorer default to legacy (even less when I had explicitly marked legacy for removal).
Claude AI says it can be some shell issue.
But how? Bug?

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

To give you an idea, this is how Explorer looks like. Legacy Explorer with ribbon, and the Home is all blank. I changed the color because the Windows Blue was making me fee old:

While here I'm inside the folder Music and you can see how the Level Up arrow is greyed out.
The back arrow looks active but when pressing it nothing happens (vs expected behavior: back home):

From what I could see, all the rest if fine. After all I have a tested routine of what I remove/disable, all things which I know that I don't need in my single PC configuration for personal use, with no gaming, no developing, no networking.
Well, NTLite offers more options than other similar software which I had tried before, so I did take a few risks in some cases where I was tweaking something for the first time, but I informed myself as much as I could and I played it as safe as possible.
All works well. Which also confirmed that for whatever reason the combo of assembling an ISO with UUP and modding it with NTLite and preparing it for the clean install with Rufus is not working well with 24H2, or it didn't for me.
While once I switched to the ISO from Microsoft, all good.

Only this is wrong.

garlin · Feb 26, 2025

NTLite's community forum is the correct place for NTLite questions.

TLDR;
Removing Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS package will break the 24H2 desktop.

This is a similar bug to what happens when you run DISM /Disable-Feature on Recall. If you've disabled the NTLite compatibility protections for an image, then you're allowed to break many things on your own. Run-time or core libraries shouldn't be removed from a Windows image.

antspants · Feb 26, 2025

Hi, welcome.

Hacking into stuff is best left for Butchers and Serial Killers.

Roll back?

garlin · Feb 26, 2025

antspants said:
Roll back?

There's no rollback when you're modding an install image. You start over with a clean ISO.

antspants · Feb 26, 2025

garlin said:
There's no rollback when you're modding an install image. You start over with a clean ISO.

Oh ok. But you can rollback with a backup image, yes? One would assume if done properly before the changes, one would of been made. If not, that sucks.

glasskuter · Feb 26, 2025

I just wanted to welcome you to the forum and say thank you for writing such a well-written concise post about such an involved subject. We do have a few members here who are experienced in this. (@garlin would be the man so his advise is appropriate since he is one of the moderators on NTLite forum )

I'm not one to have an answer for you as I stepped away from tryng to alter an image in the Windows 7 days. 'Modern' versions of windows became a whole different ballgame. IMO, your list of "cuts" is suffiicient to indicate you've probably slashed a service, dll, component, or other that is a necessary dependency for explorer to work correctly in 24h2.
Good luck.

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

garlin said:
NTLite's community forum is the correct place for NTLite questions.

TLDR;
Removing Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS package will break the 24H2 desktop.

This is a similar bug to what happens when you run DISM /Disable-Feature on Recall. If you've disabled the NTLite compatibility protections for an image, then you're allowed to break many things on your own. Run-time or core libraries shouldn't be removed from a Windows image.

1. don't patronize me, I and only I decide where I ask my questions

2. this post is NOT about NTLite but about Windows. I mentioned NTLite because it was relevant context.
However I did NOT ask "what do I have to do in NTLite", but what kind of feature/service/component once removed with ANY software could cause this.

3. Like you surely noticed (but still decided to answer here), I posted the same info in NTLite too.
Here I'm trying to understand Windows. There I'm trying to understand NTLite.
There, in the post where you (the only person who ever answers) don't answer since two days.
Which is your right to. Like it's my right to go find a more active community where I can hear more perspectives.

4. I did NOT remove windowsappruntime!!!
I never did, I would never do.
In my post in NTLite I sent TWO full presets and invited you and Nuhi to look at them because they should be identical but are completely different.
I explained that the manually saved one has nothing to do with my tweaks.
The autosave is the one where I can see the tweaks I've made. And you won't find windowsappruntime there.
It's not even the first time that I bring to your attention the fact that your claims that I removed this or that important thing are absolutely false.
I even posted photos to show you that those components were NOT deactivated, and to prove that there's something weird with the info in that preset.
This was 2 days ago. Still no answer.
But then I have to ask my questions there.
Seriously...

5) I did NOT disable the compatibility protection.

If I didn't know that you're a nice person I'd almost wonder if you're gaslighting me

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

glasskuter said:
I just wanted to welcome you.

IMO, your list of "cuts" is suffiicient to indicate you've probably slashed

Thanks :)
Yes, I was surprised to see Garlin here too, after two days that I was wondering if he had gotten tired of my questions there.

When you say IMO, do you mean that you actually carefully went through that list and you've found things which you have reasons to believe that they might force Explorer into Legacy mode?
Or do you talk in general?

In general, every meddling into anything can foodle up something.
But that doesn't mean that it is automatically a foodle up.
I'm not going to stop modding Windows :party:

So, I want to learn what is causing this, in order to prevent it from happening in the future

InnerBrat · Feb 26, 2025

antspants said:
Hi, welcome.

Hacking into stuff is best left for Butchers and Serial Killers.

Roll back?

I have a very nasty dark side indeed. My friends call me Dexter.

Roll back is for kids. Real men take risks

One of the things I disable first is System Restore.
I do leave LKG and the recovery partition. I am not masochistic.

antspants said:
Oh ok. But you can rollback with a backup image, yes? One would assume if done properly before the changes, one would of been made. If not, that sucks.

I'm not modding a live system.
I am modding an offline image for a clean install. There's nothing to go back to.
Unless you mean a methodical testing with VM, where you do some changes, and try. If it works, you save that base as a preset and continue trying with not too many changes at once.
This is what Garlin recommended me, but I never used a VM so I do my tests the hard way: mod, install, test, mod better, install again, test deeper.
If I have issues as soon as I pass the welcome screen, I want to scratch, not to patch.
Also because my aim is to have a solid (modded) image with no issues, which I can use again for me or friends.

Anyway like I was saying before I don't need a solution. I have it already: it gets solved by itself with a CU.
What I'm asking is what cold be causing this, so that I can improve the image.
I strategically provided this info about CU with the hope that it could serve you all as hint to the issue.
I mean, afaik not all issues get solved with a CU.

antspants · Feb 27, 2025

InnerBrat said:
Unless you mean a methodical testing with VM

No, I was referring to a Macrium/Hasleo or Acronis (and the likes) backup image.

garlin · Feb 27, 2025

24H2's Explorer has been rewritten to take advantage of newer CBS libraries, as part of a gradual shift away from the legacy XP-era code base and into something more modern. When you remove the wrong set of libraries, entire parts of the UI disappear and it resembles early W10.

Not everyone will agree with my advice, but it serves as the least damaging one can do while maintaining stability. All I can do is provide wisdom for those who are interested in listening.

Installing the CU will sometimes restore previously removed components, because that's what the CU wants to patch.

glasskuter · Feb 27, 2025

InnerBrat said:
When you say IMO, do you mean that you actually carefully went through that list and you've found things which you have reasons to believe that they might force Explorer into Legacy mode?
Or do you talk in general?

I did look at the list but I'm talking generally. I do not claim any knowledge any more about what feature/service/component affects what.

I was basically trying to say what @garlin said so much better. Modern Windows, especially the completely redesigned Explorer, has so many dependancies that affect the different parts of the UI. What is causing your explorer issue may well not be one just one of the tweaks you made, but several.

dacrone · Feb 27, 2025

InnerBrat said:
I have a very nasty dark side indeed. My friends call me Dexter.

Roll back is for kids. Real men take risks
One of the things I disable first is System Restore.
I do leave LKG and the recovery partition. I am not masochistic.

I'm not modding a live system.
I am modding an offline image for a clean install. There's nothing to go back to.
Unless you mean a methodical testing with VM, where you do some changes, and try. If it works, you save that base as a preset and continue trying with not too many changes at once.
This is what Garlin recommended me, but I never used a VM so I do my tests the hard way: mod, install, test, mod better, install again, test deeper.
If I have issues as soon as I pass the welcome screen, I want to scratch, not to patch.
Also because my aim is to have a solid (modded) image with no issues, which I can use again for me or friends.

Anyway like I was saying before I don't need a solution. I have it already: it gets solved by itself with a CU.
What I'm asking is what cold be causing this, so that I can improve the image.
I strategically provided this info about CU with the hope that it could serve you all as hint to the issue.
I mean, afaik not all issues get solved with a CU.

It was because you modified the Win UI3 Elements. Try again and see:

Powershell as Admin

Remove:

Code:

Get-AppxPackage -allusers *Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS* | Remove-AppxPackage

Add:

Code:

Get-AppxPackage -allusers *Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS* | Foreach {Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register “$($_.InstallLocation)\AppXManifest.xml”}

InnerBrat · Feb 27, 2025

dacrone said:
It was because you modified the Win UI3 Elements. Try again and see:

Thanks!
I have questions:

did you see it in the txt which I've uploaded? If so, can you point me to the specific entries, so I can avoid them in the future?
do I have to run both codes? I am confused about why I should run the remove code too.
this is a clean install from a modded image. If the "add" command takes what it needs from this same modded image and not online (like e.g. with WinGet), how can that solve anything?

Cheers

dacrone · Feb 27, 2025

InnerBrat said:
Thanks!
I have questions:

did you see it in the txt which I've uploaded? If so, can you point me to the specific entries, so I can avoid them in the future?

do I have to run both codes? I am confused about why I should run the remove code too.

this is a clean install from a modded image. If the "add" command takes what it needs from this same modded image and not online (like e.g. with WinGet), how can that solve anything?

Cheers

no i said run them so you can see. it doesnt hurt anything overall. run the remove, reboot and you'll see what you saw before (ribboned explorer, square corners, etc). running the Add will just restore Win UI3 elements to normal.

InnerBrat · Feb 27, 2025

dacrone said:
no i said run them so you can see. it doesnt hurt anything overall. run the remove, reboot and you'll see what you saw before (ribboned explorer, square corners, etc). running the Add will just restore Win UI3 elements to normal.

I see.
There's a little lost in translation: I was talking of the previous clean install when I said that the CU solved the issue. You maybe missed where I said that this time I didn't install the CU so I could try your (= of you all here) suggestions and find what I have to correct in my tweaks for the next install.

So, as I already have the ribboned Explorer I've only tried the add command. Powershell 7.5, elevated. And rebooted.
Nothing changed.
Could it be because of what I said before?
I'm guessing, please correct/complete my claims as you see needed, but if I've disabled/removed something in the image with NTLite before the clean install it is now missing in the component store, right? And if this "add" command looks for what it needs in the component store, it can't work, right?
It can only work in the case of something that has been disabled/removed after the clean install, unless I'm really not understanding what this command does.
Anyway it didn't work.
Do you maybe know a command to get this presumed-missing thing online with WinGet or something similar?

Still, I'd like to know if you were just brainstorming about the possible cause, or if you noticed specific entries in the uploaded txt.
Cheers

Winuser · Feb 27, 2025

antspants said:
Oh ok. But you can rollback with a backup image, yes? One would assume if done properly before the changes, one would of been made. If not, that sucks.

Sadly that happens way too many times.

InnerBrat · Feb 27, 2025

garlin said:
24H2's Explorer has been rewritten to take advantage of newer CBS libraries, as part of a gradual shift away from the legacy XP-era code base and into something more modern. When you remove the wrong set of libraries, entire parts of the UI disappear and it resembles early W10.

That sounds reasonable.
Did you have a chance to look at the autosave preset which I uploaded in NTLite community, or at the txt uploaded here which I made removing from that preset things like languages, wifi packages and integrated drivers so that it's much shorter and easier to deal with?
I'd be insterested if you could point at specific entries which you think I should try not tweaking next time.
Alternatively you could guess-name some entries which could be causing this weird retrofitting. Like tistou77 in NTLite Community suggested that disabling Copilot + Recall in the image breaks the new explorer. Which blew my mind because it seems so absolutely and inherently unrelated.
It doesn't help much if you just say generic things about "wrong set of library".
It's like telling me not to use NTLite at all. Or to do endless trial and errors with not even a clue about where to start from, because I've really no idea what in my removals meddled with the wrong library.

garlin said:
Not everyone will agree with my advice, but it serves as the least damaging one can do while maintaining stability. All I can do is provide wisdom for those who are interested in listening.

It's not that I don't "agree with your advice".
Nor that I'm not "interested in listening".
It's that in NTLite Community you looked into a preset of mine and claimed that I removed Out-of-box Experience (OOBE), Windows Application Runtime, ClipSVC, CDPSvc, CDPUserSvc, and StateRepository, and when I told you that I didn't remove ANY of them, providing screenshots as proof, and suggesting that there might be something weird going on with NTLite's preset, you didn't even answer.

Then lately I provided two new presets, one manually saved, one auto saved, both referring to the same exact moment of the same project, and which should therefore be identical but are very different, giving you material proof of something weird going on in NTLite, and you didn't answer either.
Instead you claim here that I removed Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS, which I did NOT.
And when I tell you that I did not, and that the two presets contradict each other about it, you come with "All I can do is provide wisdom for those who are interested in listening".
HOW is this supposed to help?

Thinking it better, I actually don't know if when you said that removing Microsoft.WindowsAppRuntime.CBS can break things you were giving a generic tip of one possible cause, or you had looked in my preset and were claiming that I removed it, like you did with those other files?

Solved What could be making File Explorer default to legacy (and with bugs) at a clean install of 24H2?

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