24H2 - Very large hanging/system lag when opening programs on modern PC.

I needed to fresh install my system due to security compromise and since 24H2 comes with performance increase on Zen4 and Zen5, I went to try 24H2 using the uupdump.net website. I prefer "Pro for Workstations" flavor and thats what I installed. I usually use NTLite to integrate some automation of setup, which conveniently bypasses online microsoft account requirement. The installation process went fine, it didn't take very long, maybe 10 minutes. But upon starting to set up apps and personalization (I don't integrate any additional programs), I would get extremely large amounts of system unresponsiveness - Installing C++ runtime would take like 5 minutes per package and take a few minutes just for the install box to open. NVIDIA driver installer would hang in a similar manner - icon would be present in task bar but no window visible until many minutes pass and often show a failure error of some sort before the driver even attempts to install, my email client would equally hang on opening with some UI elements missing or empty. Browsing on Supermium (chromium base browser) was fine.

I tried again with an untouched ISO image from UUP. I bypassed the microsoft account with the shift F10 command for the OOBE command, then the ipconfig release after the reboot, and the same thing happened.

There was no issue with any of the hardware - temperatures were under 50, activity was near 0, hard drives were not deadlocked with 100% activity (they were 0 nearly the entire time)

I ended up just using my existing window 11 usb installer with 22H2 and it's running fine. Some of the C++ runtime was a little sluggish but there has been no performance degradation after that.

Is my 24H2 bad? Where can I get a real 24H2 iso?

ssateneth said:

Is my 24H2 bad? Where can I get a real 24H2 iso?

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum

Just stop playing with it. It won’t be long.

I've been running 24H2 RP builds since 26100.712 (which appeared in May.) No issues.

But I've not attempted to rip out pieces of it.

The main oddity I see in your computer specs is the 1.5TB Optane drive. I hope that it requires no special drivers when being used as a standalone drive (rather than a cache).

September Windows 11 update riddled with issues. Here’s what you can do



If you don't want to read the article, here's what you can do
////
However, if you’re running into problems after installation, you can manually remove the patch with these steps:

Open Settings > Windows Update > Update History.
Scroll down to the bottom and click Uninstall updates.
Locate update KB5043076 and click Uninstall.
Restart your system when you’re prompted to do so.
Go back to Settings > Windows Update and click on Pause for 1 week so the patch remains uninstalled.
Microsoft has not yet commented on most of these problems with the patch. As soon as fixes are rolled out, you can always reactivate automatic updates. If you have problems shutting down your PC, you may need to force shutdown and use a system restore point as a temporarily fix.

bobkn said:

I've been running 24H2 RP builds since 26100.712 (which appeared in May.) No issues.

But I've not attempted to rip out pieces of it.

The main oddity I see in your computer specs is the 1.5TB Optane drive. I hope that it requires no special drivers when being used as a standalone drive (rather than a cache).

Click to expand...

i'm not ripping pieces out of it. I know ntlite can be used to rip pieces, but i dont do that. i use ntlite to automate the install process and automate some post-install things like showing desktop icons, changing the taskbar, disabling hibernate, etc.

for what its worth, the automation steps that havent changed for years automatically bypassed the mandatory microsoft account and it made a local account, which is great.

sounds like i should just wait for the real 24h2 to come.

Have you tried 24H2 Pro instead of Pro Workstation? Functionally, they're identical except Workstation has some performance tweaks.

Just to confirm if it's a general 24H2 issue, or specific to Workstation.

I have the same issues even with 23H2 Beta Insiders but what one could do is using what it says in this comment to see what is causing it:

ssateneth said:

I needed to fresh install my system due to security compromise and since 24H2 comes with performance increase on Zen4 and Zen5

Click to expand...

Make sure to keep the BIOS updated, your mobo currently supports 1.2.0.1, but 1.2.0.2 is coming soon.

ssateneth said:

Installing C++ runtime would take like 5 minutes per package and take a few minutes just for the install box to open.

Click to expand...

Disabling Defender always solved lag issues on mine PCs.

Almighty1 said:

I have the same issues even with 23H2 Beta Insiders but what one could do is using what it says in this comment to see what is causing it:

Momentary pauses

I have a new build with a new install of Windows 11 which pauses every minute or so. Whatever I am typing will momentarily stop typing and then catch up. If I am scrolling, then the scroll pauses and then catches up. If I am gaming, momentary pause of the game but it does not catch up (if I hit...

www.elevenforum.com

Click to expand...

Update:
Completely fixed problem after I did a in-place repair install of Windows Beta Insiders.

Almighty1 said:

Update:
Completely fixed problem after I did a in-place repair install of Windows Beta Insiders.

Click to expand...

Sounds similar to my failing PNY CS900 SSD, where any file errors go away if you reinstall, along with random extreme slowness before reinstalling. Then when I checked its SMART, it's indicating bad blocks already! (IIRC) The same type of problems are expected to come back, or you suddenly have different symptoms, if the SSD is faulty. It's usually errors about file corruption and it being extremely slow. But it may escalate to read-only-mode, or it suddenly not being detected ever again.

Note that I don't use the mentioned SSD anymore, certainly not for a daily-driver!

RJARRRPCGP said:

Sounds similar to my failing PNY CS900 SSD, where any file errors go away if you reinstall, along with random extreme slowness before reinstalling. Then when I checked its SMART, it's indicating bad blocks already! (IIRC) The same type of problems are expected to come back, or you suddenly have different symptoms, if the SSD is faulty. It's usually errors about file corruption and it being extremely slow. But it may escalate to read-only-mode, or it suddenly not being detected ever again.

Note that I don't use the mentioned SSD anymore, certainly not for a daily-driver!

Click to expand...

Anything is possible to be honest but I've had this problem for maybe atleast a year, it was fine before that and I don't really know when it started. This is my SMART and all looks good.

Almighty1 said:

Anything is possible to be honest but I've had this problem for maybe atleast a year, it was fine before that and I don't really know when it started. This is my SMART and all looks good.

View attachment 110253

Click to expand...

And there was me thinking I was being tough on my SSD. After 5 years heavy use holding multiple Hyper-V VMs I've still only managed 54TB total writes. BTW, you don't need to grey out the serial number, use Function > Hide Serial Number.



I don't have any slowdown issues. Are you regularly using TRIM? The SSD's internal controller may struggle to find somewhere to write new blocks if you don't. Turn on Scheduled optimisation if it's not on already. Don't worry, it won't defrag the SSD, just runs TRIM regularly.

ssateneth said:

I needed to fresh install my system due to security compromise

Click to expand...

Was it from malvertising? I had such incident in very-early-February.

Almighty1 said:

Anything is possible to be honest but I've had this problem for maybe atleast a year, it was fine before that and I don't really know when it started. This is my SMART and all looks good.

View attachment 110253

Click to expand...

That SSD looks excellent! The SSD I mentioned, OTOH, was hardly even used and seems that it would barf on a mere Windows update!

Almighty1 said:

Anything is possible to be honest but I've had this problem for maybe atleast a year, it was fine before that and I don't really know when it started. This is my SMART and all looks good.

View attachment 110253

Click to expand...

61% is to close for comfort (imo). Would buy a new SSD and clone above one to the new one. Then use this one mainly for caching, downloads and temporary files. Just my 2 cents (so to speak).

Almighty1 said:

This is my SMART and all looks good.

Click to expand...

neves said:

61% is to close for comfort (imo). Would buy a new SSD and clone above one to the new one. Then use this one mainly for caching, downloads and temporary files. Just my 2 cents (so to speak).

Click to expand...

The XG6 series was a Client SSD supplied direct to OEMs like Lenovo and Dell. The endurance spec for the Toshiba (now trading as Kioxia) KXG60ZNV1T02 is 600TBW.

At 214 TBW so far this one is less than half way there. Most reputable brands of SSD exceed their endurance specs anyway, the manufacturer's TBW always seems to be on the conservative side. I don't think there's anything to worry about yet.

Bree said:

And there was me thinking I was being tough on my SSD. After 5 years heavy use holding multiple Hyper-V VMs I've still only managed 54TB total writes. BTW, you don't need to grey out the serial number, use Function > Hide Serial Number.

View attachment 110254

I don't have any slowdown issues. Are you regularly using TRIM? The SSD's internal controller may struggle to find somewhere to write new blocks if you don't. Turn on Scheduled optimisation if it's not on already. Don't worry, it won't defrag the SSD, just runs TRIM regularly.

View attachment 110257

Click to expand...

My system was put into use on April 28, 2019 so it's like closer to 5.5 years and I have my system on 24/7/365 so my power on hours is also way higher than yours. I also have ThinkorSwim running in the background monitoring around 1800+ symbols in real time for investing so obviously there will be more read/writes but then again, without any trading, it's also how my networth can go up and down in any amount up to $US500,000 daily.

This is my only storage device as it's a laptop. The slowdown issues is because there is CPU thermal throttling due to it being a notebook but this was solved with the in-place repair install and I also have a large amount of things running as you can easily tell from the handles from SystemInformer formerly known as Process Hacker. Desktop CPUs don't have this problem from experience as even the CPU time is high which is why even browsers can freeze momentarily.



The system will freeze periodically:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\SubSystems\
"Windows" to SharedSection=1024,20480,8192 from the Defaults of 1024,20480,768 and in that same key, the MaxRequestThreads=8192 from the defaults of 16.
For GDI handles change the following Registry Keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\GDIProcessHandleQuota

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\GDIProcessHandleQuota

Change it to 65536
Range: 256 - 65,536. Default value: 10000

For USER handles change the following Registry Keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\USERProcessHandleQuota

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\USERProcessHandleQuota

Change it to 18000
Range: 200 - 18,000. Default value: 10000

I do run a big load on the machine.

Thanks for mentioning the option to hide the serial #, I'm used to using SnagIt to do it. As for TRIM, I don't manually do it but it's supposed to do it automatically but I remember it never worked automatically before from the current status so I don't know if it was the in-place upgrade that fixed it or if it was fixed before as I hadn't check the current status probably for atleast 4-5 years or I might not have ever checked this machine for the current status and it was actually more than 5+ years ago on the older machine.



The only issue I am having now is that some sites use a large amount of memory like a long email with 250+ quoted responses or a site that is demanding on the browser but that only happens with Chrome based browsers but Firefox appears to not have the issue.

RJARRRPCGP said:

That SSD looks excellent! The SSD I mentioned, OTOH, was hardly even used and seems that it would barf on a mere Windows update!

Click to expand...

My issue has nothing to do with the SSD but the fact it is a notebook with high temperatures due to the thermal design as it is handling things well and it may well be either some files got corrupted or something that only a repair in-place upgrade install would fix.

neves said:

61% is to close for comfort (imo). Would buy a new SSD and clone above one to the new one. Then use this one mainly for caching, downloads and temporary files. Just my 2 cents (so to speak).

Click to expand...

I can't use one mainly for caching because it only allows one SSD as it has only one slot on the notebook motherboard, this is a Dell XPS 15 9570 notebook, it doesn't even support more than one drive. I would probably buy a new computer with current specs first as 61% is after using it for almost 5 years so it's not a big issue as I am not installing anything new on it. A majority of the space is taken by things like Windows Subsystem for Linux, Windows Subsystem for Android and Hyper V which is running the Windows Canary Insiders Build. So even if I cloned the drive to a newer one, it will still be a single newer drive. In my older machines, I replaced the spindles which were a pair of WD Black 500GB with a pair of SanDisk Pro 2.5" 2TB SSD's but even those drives were slow compared to this.

Bree said:

The XG6 series was a Client SSD supplied direct to OEMs like Lenovo and Dell. The endurance spec for the Toshiba (now trading as Kioxia) KXG60ZNV1T02 is 600TBW.

https://europe.kioxia.com/content/dam/kioxia/shared/business/ssd/client-ssd/asset/productbrief/cSSD-XG6-product-brief.pdf

At 214 TBW so far this one is less than half way there. Most reputable brands of SSD exceed their endurance specs anyway, the manufacturer's TBW always seems to be on the conservative side. I don't think there's anything to worry about yet.

Click to expand...

Datasheets are nice (: quite useful as referral - when selling a products with a high millage). But was talking from experience: close to 50% - some SSDs proved to be hit or miss (supposedly more recent models - are doing better - improved in one way or the other). As for brand - mostly Samsung and, yeah... sounded a lot better on paper (even the most praised brand). Close to 4 years went down to 58% (summer time) - so was pretty sure it would last at least 2 more years, yet... by December (when needed the most) - it started failing in a weird way corrupting even a big part of the backed-up data. Again, that was older SSD tech too so.... who knows - but pain/trauma can be a good teacher - so i prefer not to risk it with important data (better safe than sorry). Used as cache, for downloads and temporary files - is still good enough for me (be if it last 5 more years or just 1 - at least i won't be worried in all that time). But hey, that's just me (: you do you).