Solved AOMEI Backupper (Free Standard Edition) Review

cereberus · Aug 13, 2022

FrankW said:
This thread mentioned that the MSR partition is skipped in a full disk backup with AOMEI, I wonder if that is a result of this "intelligent sector" in Backup Mode and if "Make an exact backup" would include MSR. Anyone tried this? would the free space also be backed up when selecting "Make an exact backup"?

Pretty sure it will still not include it - selection of partitions to backup is not related to how the partitins are backed up.

Anyway, with exact backup you end up with much larger backup files (not due to tiny MSR partition but fact ever sector is backed up in a selected partition (even if not used any more). If somebody go hold of your backup, they could get access to deleted (confidential) files. I tried doing an exact backup of my OS drive with 700 GB spare on secondary drive, but ran out of space but using intelligent sector backup, I only use around 100 GB. The size difference is enormous in my case.

I cannot think of a single case where a normal would not use intelligent sector backup . Maybe the police or MI5 spy (say) would use it for forensic examination purposes.

It is slightly odd that AOMEI exclude the MSR file from a full backup given it is officially part of MS official UEFI layout (indeed even more oddly MS ignore it if I remember correctly in some circumstances).

The main point is that the MSR partition has never been used, and it looks like it will never be used.

"The UEFI specification does not allow hidden sectors on GPT-formatted disks. Microsoft reserves a chunk of disk space using this MSR partition type, to provide an alternative data storage space for such software components which previously may have used hidden sectors on MBR formatted disks. Such software components can create a small software-component specific partition from a portion of the space reserved in the MSR partition."

Some games typically used to use these MBR hidden sectors to provide security info e.g. copy prevention. What actually happened is the games manufacturers changed how they did things (presumably easier than developing separate UEFI/Legacy bios versions). As a consequence, it seems nobody has ever used this partition, and as UEFI has been around 10 years or so, I doubt anybody ever will. Indeed the original W8 MSR partition was 128 MB, and now is only 16 MB in W10.

So not backing it up has absolutely no impact at all. If MS or somebody ever does need the MSR partition, you can easily create one from diskpart.

FrankW · Aug 13, 2022

cereberus said:
Pretty sure it will still not include it - selection of partitions to backup is not related to how the partitins are backed up.

Anyway, with exact backup you end up with much larger backup files (not due to tiny MSR partition but fact ever sector is backed up in a selected partition (even if not used any more). If somebody go hold of your backup, they could get access to deleted (confidential) files. I tried doing an exact backup of my OS drive with 700 GB spare on secondary drive, but ran out of space but using intelligent sector backup, I only use around 100 GB. The size difference is enormous in my case.

I cannot think of a single case where a normal would not use intelligent sector backup . Maybe the police or MI5 spy (say) would use it for forensic examination purposes.

It is slightly odd that AOMEI exclude the MSR file from a full backup given it is officially part of MS official UEFI layout (indeed even more oddly MS ignore it if I remember correctly in some circumstances).

The main point is that the MSR partition has never been used, and it looks like it will never be used.

"The UEFI specification does not allow hidden sectors on GPT-formatted disks. Microsoft reserves a chunk of disk space using this MSR partition type, to provide an alternative data storage space for such software components which previously may have used hidden sectors on MBR formatted disks. Such software components can create a small software-component specific partition from a portion of the space reserved in the MSR partition."

Some games typically used to use these MBR hidden sectors to provide security info e.g. copy prevention. What actually happened is the games manufacturers changed how they did things (presumably easier than developing separate UEFI/Legacy bios versions). As a consequence, it seems nobody has ever used this partition, and as UEFI has been around 10 years or so, I doubt anybody ever will. Indeed the original W8 MSR partition was 128 MB, and now is only 16 MB in W10.

So not backing it up has absolutely no impact at all. If MS or somebody ever does need the MSR partition, you can easily create one from diskpart.

You wrote: "It is slightly odd that AOMEI exclude the MSR file from a full backup given it is officially part of MS official UEFI layout (indeed even more oddly MS ignore it if I remember correctly in some circumstances)."
AOMEI is not the only one, Acronis also ignores MSR (from the Acronis support forum):
"The MSR partition is really a throw back to having a Legacy / MBR system where the MSR holds the Windows Boot Configuration Data store with information required by the OS in order to boot correctly to the Windows desktop.
For UEFI / GPT systems the MSR partition is redundant and the equivalent BCD information would normally be stored in an EFI partition."

My UEFI/BIOS/MOBO does not support Legacy boot anymore so I guess the MSR partition is redundant for my laptop. I don't think you can still create a MSR partition after a disk restore job (MS W11 doc.):

Creation responsibilities for MSR

The MSR must be created when disk-partitioning information is first written to the drive. If the manufacturer partitions the disk, the manufacturer must create the MSR at the same time. If Windows partitions the disk during setup, Windows creates the MSR.

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned

After the disk is partitioned, there will be no free space left to create an MSR.

Thanks for the info on AOMEI intelligent sector backup mode.
Frank

cereberus · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
You wrote: "It is slightly odd that AOMEI exclude the MSR file from a full backup given it is officially part of MS official UEFI layout (indeed even more oddly MS ignore it if I remember correctly in some circumstances)."
AOMEI is not the only one, Acronis also ignores MSR (from the Acronis support forum):
"The MSR partition is really a throw back to having a Legacy / MBR system where the MSR holds the Windows Boot Configuration Data store with information required by the OS in order to boot correctly to the Windows desktop.
For UEFI / GPT systems the MSR partition is redundant and the equivalent BCD information would normally be stored in an EFI partition."

My UEFI/BIOS/MOBO does not support Legacy boot anymore so I guess the MSR partition is redundant for my laptop. I don't think you can still create a MSR partition after a disk restore job (MS W11 doc.):

Creation responsibilities for MSR
The MSR must be created when disk-partitioning information is first written to the drive. If the manufacturer partitions the disk, the manufacturer must create the MSR at the same time. If Windows partitions the disk during setup, Windows creates the MSR.

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned
After the disk is partitioned, there will be no free space left to create an MSR.

Thanks for the info on AOMEI intelligent sector backup mode.
Frank

Actually the Acronis reslonse

FrankW said:
You wrote: "It is slightly odd that AOMEI exclude the MSR file from a full backup given it is officially part of MS official UEFI layout (indeed even more oddly MS ignore it if I remember correctly in some circumstances)."
AOMEI is not the only one, Acronis also ignores MSR (from the Acronis support forum):
"The MSR partition is really a throw back to having a Legacy / MBR system where the MSR holds the Windows Boot Configuration Data store with information required by the OS in order to boot correctly to the Windows desktop.
For UEFI / GPT systems the MSR partition is redundant and the equivalent BCD information would normally be stored in an EFI partition."

My UEFI/BIOS/MOBO does not support Legacy boot anymore so I guess the MSR partition is redundant for my laptop. I don't think you can still create a MSR partition after a disk restore job (MS W11 doc.):

Creation responsibilities for MSR
The MSR must be created when disk-partitioning information is first written to the drive. If the manufacturer partitions the disk, the manufacturer must create the MSR at the same time. If Windows partitions the disk during setup, Windows creates the MSR.

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned
After the disk is partitioned, there will be no free space left to create an MSR.

Thanks for the info on AOMEI intelligent sector backup mode.
Frank

You can create the MSR after disk has been partitioned but you have to shrink a partition by 16 MB to create space, but rather pointless.

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

cereberus said:
Actually the Acronis reslonse

You can create the MSR after disk has been partitioned but you have to shrink a partition by 16 MB to create space, but rather pointless.

Well, I am going to forget about this MSR thing (for the time being). Question: I want to test my AOMEI backup by restoring to an external HDD (2TB), But I don't want to open my laptop to disconnect my internal HDD cable (Acer bottom cover very flimsy with 11 screws ofwhich many don't work), soooo what I have in mind is to restore to this external (2TB) SATA HDD using my old HP Mini laptop (W10) with an older Atom chip (Recovery USB drive was made with W11!), if that works connect the external 2 TB drive to my Acer (W11) change the BIOS to boot from (external) HDD and see if I can boot W11 from this external drive? Do you see any issues with that? My W11 (Home) was pre-installed by Acer and not sure if I am allowed to run two versions if Windows detects 2 versions, I have never run an OS from an external drive and don't know if the internal drive with W11 is running/booting at the same time? If W10 is an issue I could make an AOMEI recovery USB with W10 on the HP Mini.

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
I have never run an OS from an external drive and don't know if the internal drive with W11 is running/booting at the same time? If W10 is an issue I could make an AOMEI recovery USB with W10 on the HP Mini.

Alternatively I install Backupper on my old HP Mini (250 GB HDD) and do a full disk backup to an external USB drive, then restore the image back to the HP Mini and see if the HP Mini will boot OK. Better would be, but I don't know if this will work, is restoring the W11 image file on my original external USB drive with the HP Mini and W10 Backupper to a 2nd external HDD (2 TB) which would take hours with the old USB 2 ports. Then try to boot the 2TB external HDD with my Acer W11 laptop (using boot from USB drive in UEFI?). I know about virual drives and dual boot but rather don't touch my boot record and internal disk. Already had a (minor) booting glitch (had to restart) after booting with my AOMEI rescue USB.

cereberus · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
Alternatively I install Backupper on my old HP Mini (250 GB HDD) and do a full disk backup to an external USB drive, then restore the image back to the HP Mini and see if the HP Mini will boot OK. Better would be, but I don't know if this will work, is restoring the W11 image file on my original external USB drive with the HP Mini and W10 Backupper to a 2nd external HDD (2 TB) which would take hours with the old USB 2 ports. Then try to boot the 2TB external HDD with my Acer W11 laptop (using boot from USB drive in UEFI?). I know about virual drives and dual boot but rather don't touch my boot record and internal disk. Already had a (minor) booting glitch (had to restart) after booting with my AOMEI rescue USB.

You cannot restore easily to an external boot drive and boot from it.

Far easier to make image backup, create a virtual drive, restore image to vhd and create a boot entry - totally reversible.

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

@cereberus "You cannot restore easily to an external boot drive and boot from it."
That's what I was afraid of. OK I will try to find out how to "create a boot entry" in Windows 11.
Thanks

cereberus · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
@cereberus "You cannot restore easily to an external boot drive and boot from it."
That's what I was afraid of. OK I will try to find out how to "create a boot entry" in Windows 11.
Thanks

Mount vhd as a drive

Note its drive letter for windows directory e.g. F

Open admin command prompt

Type

bcdboot f:\windows /p /d

Close admin prompt

Reboot

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

cereberus said:
Mount vhd as a drive

Note its drive letter for windows directory e.g. F

Open admin command prompt

Type

bcdboot f:\windows /p /d

Close admin prompt

Reboot

Then restore the backup image to VHDX F: with AOMEI
After a successful boot, release the VHDX F drive in Disk Management
How to reverse the BCDboot?? What command? I will follow Winaero's instructions:
How to create a VHDX disk

I may try this on my HP Mini first

cereberus · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
Then restore the backup image to VHDX F: with AOMEI
After a successful boot, release the VHDX F drive in Disk Management
How to reverse the BCDboot?? What command? I will follow Winaero's instructions:
How to create a VHDX disk

I may try this on my HP Mini first

You restore image before doing bcdboot.

You do not have to do anything after that with disk management.

To remove boot entry, just run msconfig, select boot tab, delete the boot entry.

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

Hi @cereberus
Winaero and Elevenforum tutorial are a bit vague on specifying the location for the (to be created) VDHX drive, they just say "Browse", I assume I create a folder first in c:/ like "My_VDHX drive" before running Disk Management.

"To remove boot entry, just run msconfig, select boot tab, delete the boot entry."
That's what I wanted to know,.

I will try to restore an old W10 image to my HP Mini, then an AOMEI image, if all goes well I will replicate the process on my W11 Acer.

Thanks
Frank

Bree · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
Winaero and Elevenforum tutorial are a bit vague on specifying the location for the (to be created) VDHX drive, they just say "Browse", I assume I create a folder first in c:/ like "My_VDHX drive" before running Disk Management.

You can literally put it anywhere that is convenient. I have two machines that dual boot with the 2nd OS in a .vhdx file. One has it on the root of the C: drive, the other is the root of a separate D: data partition.

There are just a couple of restrictions. To native boot a .vhdx It has to be on a permanently installed drive, a removable external usb dive will not do.

If you create the .vhdx file as dynamically expanding, then you must have enough free space on the drive holding it for it to potentially expand to it's maximum size. If not it will fail to boot. To avoid having to keep too much unused free space on the partition holding the vhdx, when you create it make it no larger than required. Or just make it a fixed size.

You can choose to have a fixed size or dynamically expanding VHD or VHDX file.

Fixed size = This type of disk provides better performance. The virtual hard disk file is allocated to its maximum size when the virtual hard disk is created.

Dynamically expanding = This type of disk provides better use of physical storage space. The virtual hard disk file grows to its maximum size as data is written to the virtual hard disk.

Create and Set Up New VHD or VHDX File in Windows 10

How to Create and Set Up New VHD or VHDX File in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

@cereberus All clear (I think), Just curious, where is this moniker "NATIVE" coming from, the way I understand is it means booting from a virtual drive that lets you select an OS first, like Dual boot does with HDD partitions only?

Bree · Aug 14, 2022

FrankW said:
Just curious, where is this moniker "NATIVE" coming from

A .vhdx file is a virtual drive file. You can mount it in File explorer and use it like any other drive.

These virtual drives were mainly intended to be used as the attached drive for a Hyper-V virtual machine.

When native booted, they are being used as the boot drive for a real physical machine. The word 'native' is used to indicate that for all practical purposes they are a real drive being booted directly by the real physical hardware.

The word 'native' has traditionally been used in the context of using real physical hardware, as it is here:.

Emulation, Simulation and Native Development

There are many ways to develop applications for embedded Linux devices. The obvious method is to cross-compile on your host and debug on real hardware.

www.electronicsweekly.com

FrankW · Aug 14, 2022

@Bree
"..... they are a real drive being booted directly by the real physical hardware." Good, so a single drive, non virtual boot, like what I am doing right now would also classify as a native boot. I would personally prefer to call this VDX (software drive) booting hybrid emulated or simulated booting, but that is just me an old non-technical average windows user.
Thanks Bree

FrankW · Aug 15, 2022

@Bree, I located some VHDX files on my external backup drive that I made with W7 BU&Restore but I found that System Image Restore is only possible in W10 with Advanced Startup>System Recovery environment, The W7 Backup and Restore app only restores files, that worked partly, some file did not make it to my VHDX drive. Is that correct? I want to try to restore a VHDX file to my newly created virtual disk to boot from later (to test W7 image files). When I double click on the VHDX file I get the option mount (not restore) and it won't mount because the file is missing disk attributes. Is system recovery really the only way?
Thanks

cereberus · Aug 15, 2022

Bree said:
You can literally put it anywhere that is convenient. I have two machines that dual boot with the 2nd OS in a .vhdx file. One has it on the root of the C: drive, the other is the root of a separate D: data partition.

View attachment 36497

There are just a couple of restrictions. To native boot a .vhdx It has to be on a permanently installed drive, a removable external usb dive will not do.

If you create the .vhdx file as dynamically expanding, then you must have enough free space on the drive holding it for it to potentially expand to it's maximum size. If not it will fail to boot. To avoid having to keep too much unused free space on the partition holding the vhdx, when you create it make it no larger than required. Or just make it a fixed size.

FrankW said:

@Bree, I located some VHDX files on my external backup drive that I made with W7 BU&Restore but I found that System Image Restore is only possible in W10 with Advanced Startup>System Recovery environment, The W7 Backup and Restore app only restores files, that worked partly, some file did not make it to my VHDX drive. Is that correct? I want to try to restore a VHDX file to my newly created virtual disk to boot from later (to test W7 image files). When I double click on the VHDX file I get the option mount (not restore) and it won't mount because the file is missing disk attributes. Is system recovery really the only way?
Thanks

Click to expand...

Create and Set Up New VHD or VHDX File in Windows 10

How to Create and Set Up New VHD or VHDX File in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

You always get an error about it not mounting first time.

Go to disk management and assign a drive letter to OS partition.

Next time you mount vhdx file, it remembers the drive.

I am confused what you are saying about vhdx files and w7 backups.

Bree · Aug 15, 2022

cereberus said:
I am confused what you are saying about vhdx files and w7 backups.

The OP is referring to a system image made by Win10's 'Backup & Restore (Windows 7)'. Each individual partition is backed up to its own separate .vhdx file (or .vhd if made by a Win7 system).

While these can be mounted and explored like any other .vhdx, it's not really feasible to piece them together to make a working bootable system as it appears he'd like to do. Only Backup & Restore itself can read and use the various catalog and .xml files that provide further essential configuration information.

FrankW · Aug 15, 2022

cereberus said:
You always get an error about it not mounting first time.

Go to disk management and assign a drive letter to OS partition.

Next time you mount vhdx file, it remembers the drive.

I am confused what you are saying about vhdx files and w7 backups.

VHDX is the image (compressed) file format of a W7 Backup, cannot be restored, cannot be mounted, all you can do with it is use the whole set of files (.xml) that come with VHDX file to recover your system on the same PC (WindowsRE). So I cannot test the W7 backup with a virtual disk as the target disk cannot be specified during recovery. Everything else worked fine, I restored personal files to the virtual drive (using W7 Backup and Restore), both recovery disks (WindowsRE and AOMEI) booted fine in W10/11 and I am now creating a backup with AOMEI in W10 that I will restore to F: and then run the BCDBOOT F: command (and try to boot with it). As Bree and others stated earlier W7 Backup is very messy, easy to loose data or probably even unable to boot after a system recovery. After this I may forget about using W7 BU like many have been saying on this thread (lessons learned). I will look for a 2nd simple backup program with a friendly GUI like AOMEI Backupper. EaseUS Todo Backup comes to mind.

FrankW · Aug 15, 2022

Bree said:
The OP is referring to a system image made by Win10's 'Backup & Restore (Windows 7)'. Each individual partition is backed up to its own separate .vhdx file (or .vhd if made by a Win7 system).

While these can be mounted and explored likde any other .vhdx, it's not really feasible to piece them together to make a working bootable system as it appears he'd like to do. Only Backup & Restore itself can read and use the various catalog files and .xml that provide further essential configuration information.

View attachment 36514
View attachment 36515

Correct Bree, I eat crow with my earlier statement on W7 Backup and "Restore", files seem to restore OK but the image files are a mess

Solved AOMEI Backupper (Free Standard Edition) Review

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Creation responsibilities for MSR

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned

Creation responsibilities for MSR

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned

Creation responsibilities for MSR

Why MSR must be created when the disk is first partitioned