Future 'rug-pull' for unsupported Win 11 installs?

Funny old thing uncertainty - there are lots of back up plans available - images, dual booting etc but I’m wondering if the OP is thinking of the emotional impact as well. As in - you just get to really love Windows 11 and have adapted and prefer it - and then suddenly have to go back to Windows 10 again or buy new hardware.

That is what I am thinking about at the moment. Do I run Windows 11 on my daily workhorse with all my files - and risk having to “go back” to something I’ve moved on from. Or do I just stick with Windows 10. At the moment I have kept 10 on my daily workhorse and installed 11 on “casual “ machines - a netbook and a family laptop that isn’t used much. But then you need to keep switching between OS’s which isn’t ideal either (akready I am getting confused about the gadgets app on windows 10 taskbar and the gadgets on windows 11 taskbar).

My decision is easier as changing my daily workhorse to something newer (but not brand new) that will run Windows 11 officially. But even then I am wondering whether to keep it on 10 in case of any major issues (as has happened with 10 on occasion after a featured update).

I’m sure some unsupported machines will stop beung supported along the way as this happened with 10 too - some people left on a particular feature update as Bree mentioned. At least it would still work until another solution is found.

But then I’m slow to fully change over anyway - I was late changing to Windows 10. But 7 was massively popular and 10 probably doesn’t have the same degree of love so people happy to upgrade.

Anyway I’m still undecided as to whether to keep it permanently on a daily machine at this stage but somehow, now I have 11 installed on a netbook I can’t imagine it will cease to function .

It’s easy for me to be gung ho on a casual machine and think hey it’ll be fine. Not so easy when you have masses of files and a hectic schedule on a main workhorse of a computer you want to just keep working.

But thinking about it - couldn’t the same thing happen on Windows 10 too? A machine stop being supported at a feature update? Or are there to be no more feature updates now 11 is out?

AddRAM said:

I have to find one of these for my Z170 :)
I have found them but I`m not paying $80 to $100 for a $20 part.

Accessories｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

ASUS offers different kinds of motherboard accessories including Thunderbolt™ expansion cards, M.2 add-on cards, and fan extension cards give DIY PC users better choices when it comes to building their perfect workstation or gaming rig.

www.asus.com

Click to expand...

I bought one a couple of months ago for my Z170 Pro; the first one for $35 from a company in Pennsylvania, but they cancelled as they ran out of stock, and the second try at it from a company in Texas I paid $50 which was the most I was going to pay. I received that one in three days and it worked a treat.

Fabler2 said:

There's a thread where someone installed one of those TPM modules (can't find it now) but it didn't work very well. Was better off setting up TPM in the UEFI.

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I don't know about AddRAM's Z170, but mine would not enable PTT in the BIOS as the Trusted Computing options were not there to enable and Asus never updated the BIOS to enable this as they did for other boards such as Z270 boards. The last BIOS update Asus issued for the Z170 Pro was in April 2018 which I have on the machine. Once I installed the module the BIOS showed the Trusted Computing options so PTT was "there," but dormant so as not to be usable unless a module were installed, or Asus would have "awakened" the option with a BIOS update.

One does have need of making certain to buy the correct module for the motherboard you have, and the 14-1 pin module I bought was easy to install and setup in the BIOS, and Windows 10 upon boot immediately recognized it.

Hazel123 said:

But thinking about it - couldn’t the same thing happen on Windows 10 too? A machine stop being supported at a feature update? Or are there to be no more feature updates now 11 is out?

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I don't think Win 10 will receive anything major going forward that would keep the machines that run it now from continuing to run it since MS is sunsetting 10 now with 11 released. To cut people off who are running 10 now would be shooting themselves in the foot.

My plan for a scenario where MS cuts off CPUs such as the Skylake 6700K from Win 11 is that I have a spare Z590 motherboard and I'll get another CPU and pop it and the board in the Skylake box and use the Skylake parts to update my brother's box which is usually what I've done with "obsolete" systems as all he uses a computer for is to burn music CDs and Win 10 works fine for him.

Hazel123 said:

My decision is easier as changing my daily workhorse to something newer (but not brand new) that will run Windows 11 officially.

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That was the decision I made, transferring the W10 system with all its installed apps from my old unsupported 'main machine' to the new supported hardware of my System One below.

Hazel123 said:

But thinking about it - couldn’t the same thing happen on Windows 10 too? A machine stop being supported at a feature update?

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That has only happened once, and not because MS decided to stop support, rather because Intel withdrew support for the Clover Trail Atom Z2760, Z2580, Z2560, or Z2520 processors. MS decided that they could not support upgrading such machine to the Fall Creators Update (1709). Instead they extended update support until 2023 for the Anniversary Update on those devices affected.

Microsoft said:

As part of our commitment to customers, we will be offering the Windows 10 Anniversary Update to these Intel Clover Trail devices on Windows 10, which we know provides a good user experience. To keep our customers secure, we will provide security updates to these specific devices running the Windows 10 Anniversary Update until January of 2023

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Hazel123 said:

Or are there to be no more feature updates now 11 is out?

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There is certainly at least one more W10 feature update due out soon, and no reason to expect there won't be a 22H1 next May.

Bree said:

That was the decision I made, transferring the W10 system with all its installed apps from my old unsupported 'main machine' to the new supported hardware of my System One below.


That has only happened once, and not because MS decided to stop support, rather because Intel withdrew support for the Clover Trail Atom Z2760, Z2580, Z2560, or Z2520 processors. MS decided that they could not support upgrading such machine to the Fall Creators Update (1709). Instead they extended update support until 2023 for the Anniversary Update on those devices affected.

It's Official: Intel Atom Clover Trail PCs Can't Upgrade to Windows 10 Creators Update

Older PCs won't be able to enjoy the latest feature updates for Windows 10. Find out if you're affected and how.

www.groovypost.com

There is certainly at least one more W10 feature update due out soon, and no reason to expect there won't be a 22H1 next May.

Microsoft Preparing Windows 10 21H2 November 2021 Update for Release

Now available to Windows Insiders in Release Preview channel

www.tenforums.com

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Ah yes that was it - a load of Asus computers wasn’t it? Thanks.

Bastet said:

I have a suspicion that MS will stop supplying updates to Win 11 on unsupported devices around the time Win 10 becomes unsupported.
Why? I have no doubt that some Win 10 users will be holding back on upgrading unsupported devices until 2025 & then they’ll attempt to upgrade in the hope that Win 11 will extend their machine’s life a little longer & receive updates.

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I am sure support will go on long after 2025, look how much extra time win7 got after the "alleged" date to stop support

W11 didn’t exactly force me to upgrade. It just happened that my daily workhorse had been on its last legs for 2 years and I kept it going - until it got to the point where I couldn’t type and hold the screen up at the same time (a cushion helped!). And beyond reasonable repair.

But it just made it slightly more stressful getting another good used laptop. If it wasn’t new enough to officially run Windows 11 it would be a waste of money in four years time. If new enough to run Windows 11 it was over budget. So I ended up having to spend more on a laptop than I wanted to really. But there you go.

mingle said:

Hi Guys,

I've installed Win 11 on one of my desktop systems (5th Gen i7, no TPM) via the patched ISO method. All working fine and feeling quite comfortable.

However, I'm a little bit unsure as to whether I should get too used to it, as there is the more then likely chance that Microsoft will somehow block updates/disable/etc unsupported systems in the future.

I know there will probably be hacks/workarounds if it does happen, but I don't want to be playing whack-a-mole on my main systems. And I'm not planning on updating any of my hardware in the near/mid future. So should I just stick to Windows 10 - at least I know it'll be supported until 2025...

How do others feel?

Cheers,

Mike.

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Microsoft did this with Windows 10. "Microsoft has been preventing PCs with Intel Atom Clover Trail processors from obtaining the latest Windows 10 Creators Update. While many devices with Intel’s Atom Clover Trail chips were released in the Windows 8 era, Microsoft offered a free Windows 10 update to keep the tablet / laptop hybrids up-to-date. ZDNet revealed earlier this week that compatible drivers are preventing owners from updating to the Windows 10 Creators Update, and Microsoft has now confirmed to The Verge that it no longer supports Intel Atom Clover Trail processors for its latest Windows 10 updates" Windows 10 Creators Update was in first half of 2017.

Personally, I believe that Windows 11 will continue to support all of the hardware that Windows 10 does until Windows 10 reaches end of life in October, 2025. At the base level, there is not much new in Windows 11 that is not also in Windows 10, and I think it will continue that way until Windows 10 EOL.

I have seen some old machines that cannot take Windows 10 21H1 directly, so I keep a couple of older builds' ISO just in case. The failure to install 21H1 directly is because Setup cannot install drivers for some components. After you have installed the older build on such machine and updated all drivers it can then be upgraded to 21H1. It is very rare that the upgrade will fail. Some advanced fellows could also integrate the drivers into the installation media and install 21H1 directly. The same should be true for future Windows 11 builds.

Fabler2 said:

There's a thread where someone installed one of those TPM modules (can't find it now) but it didn't work very well. Was better off setting up TPM in the UEFI.

Click to expand...

My board doesn`t have that option, hence need the part if I want to go by the rules
I`m in no need/rush to install W11 on the Z170 anyway.

My take on this: If the unsupported machine is one you rely on for daily business, don't take the chance of upgrading to Win 11. Any possible future updates either won't install or cause the system to crash. Win 10 will be supported until late 2025. Win 8.1 support ends on January 2023.

Now if you have an older system laying around that you don't care if you lose that data, them go ahead and play around with Win 11. If an update bricks it, then just restore a previous image or reinstall the previous OS.

I believe that a future upgrade would brick a system if it would try to replace some drivers and failed before installation is over. That's why I always upgrade offline from the ISO and make sure no updates are installed during the process. I would disconnect the LAN cable or disable WiFi to be on the safe side. I can update any drivers, if necessary, after the upgrade. To minimize the risk Setup trying to replace drivers, I would update them all beforehand. I would also disable some devices in Device Manager so they will be skipped. Also disable antivirus if any (third party, not Defender)

The issue is one of a different level to the normal stopping of support for "older" hardware.

Back after the Spectre and related malware issues Intel and AMD completely redesigned the architecture of their processors, this was late in the 7th Generation of Intel Core processors, (unfortunately for us they did not immediately change the generation so some 7th gen processors have the old Architecture and some the New, thus generating the confusion in which Processors are accepted as compatible with windows 11). The case with AMD is a little clearer as they did change the designation from the 1000 series to the 2000 series.

Both Intel and AMD used the refresh of the architecture to add in some additional sub routines and other code that could provide better functionality in the future, but would require changes in operating systems to achieve and would not work with the older generations of processors.

Now if Microsoft decide to begin using one of the new routines/code in the newer processors, it may cause older systems have serious issues or to crash and not operate at all.

There are a lot of If's in these potential changes and they may not actually happen until Windows 12 (or whatever it's called) if they do, I do not think there will be any workarounds as is the case with most issues with Operating systems changes. In this case the updates will have to just stop if you have a non supported processor, what worries me with this is it's Microsoft, and I can see them not being as strong with the blocks as they should be and thus having a grey area where the users, and their data are used as the guinea-pigs for what will really happen

That's because they tried to force us upgrade our systems, as was the case with Windows Vista, but thankfully unlike Vista they deliberately introduced some workarounds to help adoption. They could detect older systems and enable a compatibility mode and enable the enhanced mode on new systems, allowing all Windows 10 64-bit compatible systems to also run Windows 11.

This thread is ultimately pointless as it is all speculation without any tangible evidence to support MS will pull the rug. MS have categorically defined what pc specs are required, and have also stated they do not guarantee updates on incompatible pcs.

They MAY introduce something that causes older "incompatible" installations to fall over BUT it will not be a deliberate ploy.

In the end, if user decides to upgrade to W11, on a nominally incompatible pc, it is at their own risk.

I can see the whinging posts now "Sc**w MS - my W11 no longer works" LOL.

The thing we have to remember is that the vast majority of windows users, will upgrade their OS when they upgrade their hardware, or they will upgrade their OS when their IT manager where they work decides that they will, on new hardware or old depending on need of the company . - this leaves a tiny proportion of enthusiasts, like the majority of members here some of who choose to remain on older hardware, for often good reasons

There is no reason for Microsoft to potentially hobble the performance of the OS, with some possibly impossible hack to suit a small minority of users who want to run New software on Old hardware - for whatever reason and however reasonable the reason is.

This is doubly true when there is a perfectly good alternative in Windows 10 that will run on the older hardware

I believe Microsoft will stop old systems after the EOL of Windows 10. They won't bother earlier, at least not anytime soon.

I am definitely one of those people who get the new OS with new hardware. I just don't understand what is the point of changing an OS on a working machine. I mean, I understand "out of curiosity" and "for fun", but not as far as work is concerned (unless you job is to help people with computers).

Out of curiosity, I am tinkering with Windows 11 myself every now and then and I see nothing that would compel me to change my main working OS. Since January this is Windows 10 - because in January I built a new machine and sadly there were no Windows 7 drivers available. Otherwise I would stay with 7 - I see no improvement in 10 relative to 7. On the contrary, there are a few features that to me are a step back or at least sideways, but certainly not forward. Same with 11 - no improvements if you ask me. There are lots of things people are referring to as improvements, but these things are mostly irrelevant to me in my daily work, and so I don;t care too much about those.

I also don't understand the worry about EOL - I have a Windows 7 laptop and my mom has a Windows 8 machine. That one was already broken by the "upgrade" to 10, took a lot of effort to bring it back to life. But now it works and since I don't see much in terms of "support" from Microsoft anyways, why should I worry about a date when they stop offering it?

I am still running on Windows 10 on my main systems, with Windows 11 available on Windows to Go on NVME Externals.

The last few months of any year, centred around Adobe's Annual MAX event which includes the annual updates to Adobe products, is the time that the updates appear to the whole image editing ecosphere with most releasing around "Max"

I made the decision not to add another potential change factor into my testing of these new/updated products, many of which I use for my photography and wish to evaluate without the possibility of the new OS adding issues Both of my current systems are fully compatible with 10 and the 11 OS itself is more evolutionary than revolutionary so would likely not cause issues but better safe than sorry. As I type all bar one of the expected New software packages are released and being evaluated with the last major one, Luminar Neo, the Pro version of Luminar AI, due in the next month and I intend to swap to Windows 11 after the new year.

I have been through so many upgrades to operating systems and other major software packages over too many years to get excited at an update these days.

They still interest me and I will continue to run at the leading edge, but not so much on the bleeding edge