Is there a way to force win11 to use a paging file?

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
What would that data potentially reveal? I think the laptop is working normally, but I'd like to change the way it normally works. I'm looking for a tweak or hack, not a fix or repair.

It would give someone far more knowledgable about Windows than you the information he needs to help you.

Why do you post a plea for assistance on this forum and then refuse to supply the information asked for. And why reject all our suggestions?

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

kelper said:
It would give someone far more knowledgable about Windows than you the information he needs to help you.

Why do you post a plea for assistance on this forum and then refuse to suppl the information asked for. And why reject all our suggestions?

I didn't post a plea for assistance. I asked a question: "Is there a way to force win11 to use a paging file?"

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
I didn't post a plea for assistance. I asked a question: "Is there a way to force win11 to use a paging file?"

How is that not asking for help??????

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

kelper said:
How is that not asking for help??????

Because the situation could be entirely hypothetical and it wouldn't change the answer. The specs can be anything you want and it wouldn't change the answer. I don't need a problem to exist to still have the question.

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

You cannot force Windows to ignore available RAM and use the paging file first, as this would degrade system performance significantly. Does that help you?

XxXxX · Jan 22, 2025

have you thought of installing Linux on to the system which is a lot lighter and more then able to perform the task you intend for it easily.
something like Ubuntu with a minimum install that way you can configure the setup via the CLI to suit the system requirements.
best of luck, Steve ..

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

kelper said:
You cannot force Windows to ignore available RAM and use the paging file first, as this would degrade system performance significantly. Does that help you?

No because system performance isn't an existing obstacle to how windows manages memory; it's just a decision some programmer made, and therefore there should be some tweak around it.

I haven't noticed performance issues. All I've seen is the list of videos in the background chrome window takes longer to load up because it's been cached in the pagefile, but it's hardly an inconvenience. Everything else seems normal.

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

XxXxX said:
have you thought of installing Linux on to the system which is a lot lighter and more then able to perform the task you intend for it easily.
something like Ubuntu with a minimum install that way you can configure the setup via the CLI to suit the system requirements.
best of luck, Steve ..

Yep I thought of it but I don't know the first thing about linux. I wish I did.

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
system performance isn't an existing obstacle to how windows manages memory."

Now you are talking nonsense.

XxXxX · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
Yep I thought of it but I don't know the first thing about linux. I wish I did.

apart from a few settings that you may require which can be very easily done via this or another forum Ubuntu is one of the simplest Linux OS's to use.
its worth a punt, it wont break your computer and it may be an enjoyable not to steep learning curve.
i would recommend Ubuntu 22.04.5 LTS which has support to at least 2027 and with Ubuntu pro, which is free, until 2032 ..

best of luck, Steve ..

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

kelper said:
Now you are talking nonsense.

There is no physical law that says ram is to be favored over pagefile. It's just someone's opinion on how it should be. As XxXxX pointed out before, linux makes it easy to change. Windows doesn't, without a tweak or hack, which is what I'm looking for.

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

XxXxX said:
apart from a few settings that you may require which can be very easily done via this or another forum Ubuntu is one of the simplest Linux OS's to use.
its worth a punt, it wont break your computer and it may be an enjoyable not to steep learning curve.
i would recommend Ubuntu 22.04.5 LTS which has support to at least 2027 and with Ubuntu pro, which is free, until 2032 ..

best of luck, Steve ..

How would I get drivers for it? I'm not sure how to get drivers for windows either.

XxXxX · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
How would I get drivers for it? I'm not sure how to get drivers for windows either.

you wont need drivers the Live Linux Ubuntu USB will show you if everything works before install.
everything in a Linux system is a file up to and including Drivers. any required firmware will be available if and when required.
its all done auto. you just have to decide to try it or not. you dont even have to install Ubuntu to try it out, it runs live.

best of luck, Steve ..

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

XxXxX said:
you wont need drivers the Live Linux Ubuntu USB will show you if everything works before install.
everything in a Linux system is a file up to and including Drivers. any required firmware will be available if and when required.
its all done auto. you just have to decide to try it or not. you dont even have to install Ubuntu to try it out, it runs live.

best of luck, Steve ..

What do you mean it runs live? Does it dual boot with windows or run within windows?

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

It runs from the USB stick and makes no changes to Windows or your laptop.

hsehestedt · Jan 22, 2025

Win711 said:
I'm not sure I'm convinced that a pagefile can't substitute for ram in many instances. How does SSD drive speed compare to SD ram from the 90s? Slow ram may slow processing down but it shouldn't stop.

My statement regarding that was not a guess. It was a statement of fact. You can consider me an authority on that topic

.

As for the speed, even old DDR3 is many times the speed of an SSD. In addition, you REALLY don't want to be thrashing the pagefile on an SSD because they have a very limited number of write cycles.

SLC NAND flash can endure around 50,000 to 1,00,000 write cycles.
MLC NAND flash can sustain up to 3,000 write cycles. eMLC or enterprise MLC version supports about 10,000 write cycles.
TLC NAND Flash has low endurance and can take about 300 to 1,000 write cycles.

I'm not even sure about QLC, but it's even worse or maybe with current SSD advancements about as good TLC.

NOTE: The above numbers are older, it may be slightly better these days, but not by much.

kelper · Jan 22, 2025

RAM is approximately 10x faster in terms of bandwidth compared to the fastest SSDs.
For latency, RAM is 100–1,000x faster than SSDs.

This speed disparity is why RAM is used as volatile memory for active tasks, while SSDs are for longer-term storage.

If you want your RAM utilisation to be, say, 50%, insted of 90%, by moving data into a page file this can only slow down your computer!

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

hsehestedt said:
My statement regarding that was not a guess. It was a statement of fact. You can consider me an authority on that topic .

As for the speed, even old DDR3 is many times the speed of an SSD. In addition, you REALLY don't want to be thrashing the pagefile on an SSD because they have a very limited number of write cycles.

SLC NAND flash can endure around 50,000 to 1,00,000 write cycles.

MLC NAND flash can sustain up to 3,000 write cycles. eMLC or enterprise MLC version supports about 10,000 write cycles.

TLC NAND Flash has low endurance and can take about 300 to 1,000 write cycles.

I'm not even sure about QLC, but it's even worse or maybe with current SSD advancements about as good TLC.

NOTE: The above numbers are older, it may be slightly better these days, but not by much.

Someone may need to help me make sense of these numbers but it appears SSD is faster than old DDR, which is memory I used to use to watch Southpark 25 years ago

Regarding longevity, it's a cheap laptop. It plays videos 24/7 forever until it dies so the SSD is always being used regardless if there is a pagefile or not. On top of that, the drive is full which is doing double damage.

Win711 · Jan 22, 2025

kelper said:
RAM is approximately 10x faster in terms of bandwidth compared to the fastest SSDs.

For latency, RAM is 100–1,000x faster than SSDs.

This speed disparity is why RAM is used as volatile memory for active tasks, while SSDs are for longer-term storage.

If you want your RAM utilisation to be, say, 50%, insted of 90%, by moving data into a page file this can only slow down your computer!

I only need enough speed to play 30 frames of a 720p video per second. How many mb is that?

It just dawned on me to check the youtube playback quality. It could be playing at 1080 and using too much memory. Why didn't you guys think of that??? LOL

Win711 · Jan 23, 2025

Welp, it turned out youtube was set to automatic which meant 1080, and after changing that to 720 I could open anything and everything in any order.

I can't believe I didn't think of that sooner. Even more remarkable is none of us thought of it.

Imagine watching WW2 videos in 1080p

Is there a way to force win11 to use a paging file?

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