Solved Is this a viable swapping option when the cloning software does not work?

CharlieDog · Dec 25, 2022

To explain: I am trying to clone the OS on an HP Laptop14 that now has a WD M.2 SATA SSD to a Samsung M.2 SATA SSD the same size. I have used Samsung Data Migration many times through the years without a problem, but this time SDM does not recognize the Samsung drive. I have initialized and formatted the Samsung drive, and it is recognized in Disk Management. It is not however recognized in Device Manager. In there the connection is recognized. I have tried an external enclosure, a basic board to SATA cable connection, and just a basic board, but all three options ultimately go into the computer with a USB-3 connection.

When I googled this problem, one of the suggestions was to put the 'target' Samsung SSD in the laptop and the original SSD with the OS on it into the external enclosure. SDM should be able to recognize it then.

Since the laptop will obviously have to be turned off to make the swap, when the power is turned on, will it boot off the OS on the SSD in the external drive automatically without making any changes in the boot menu, or will it just not boot at all?

I have also tried Macrium Reflect, and it starts to clone, then it stops and gives an error 'problem initializing the target disc'.

TIA for any suggestions.

Porthos · Dec 25, 2022

With Macrium, I never clone. I make an IMAGE to an external drive then swap drives and use the Macrium boot USB to restore to the new disk.

SIW2 · Dec 25, 2022

SDM does not recognize the Samsung drive.

That might indicate that something is wrong, is it a new disk ? It is also possible magician does not work with that particular disk, I vaguely recall it doesn't support oem versions, for example.

If you are sure there is nothing wrong with the disk, you could use the free version of diskgenius to do os migration

DiskGenius: Data Recovery, Partition Manager, Backup & Disk Utilities

DiskGenius provides an all-in-one solution for data recovery, disk partition management and backup & restore for Windows PCs, Servers and workstations.

www.diskgenius.com

zbook · Dec 25, 2022

In the left lower corner search type:
msinfo32 > save as NFO (do not save as txt) > post a share link into this thread
dxdiag > save as txt > post a share link into this thread

Enter the HP serial number, model, or SKU into this link and post a URL or link into this thread.

Official HP® Laptop Drivers and Software Download

Download the latest drivers, software, firmware, and diagnostics for your HP laptops from the official HP Support website.

support.hp.com

Download and install HP UEFI hardware diagnostics (https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp143501-144000/sp143798.exe) > run overnight while sleeping > system > extensive > loop until error > the next day > click esc > take pictures > post images or share links into this thread

DigitalGoat · Dec 25, 2022

As well as checking the drive hardware, this could be a simple case of needing the Samsung NVME driver installed on the laptop.

SIW2 · Dec 25, 2022

The op says it is a sata m2.

CharlieDog · Dec 25, 2022

Interesting suggestions, but no one has answered my original question. So, nobody has tried the swap I referenced?

FWIW, the Samsung 860 EVO is a new drive, initialized, partitioned to GPT, formatted to NTFS, single striped partition, did I miss anything?

I tried the disc genius, but it would not install. It gave me a corrupt installation file error-twice.

I watched a couple of videos on the Macrium Image/USB recovery drive, and I will have to watch them a few more times before I get comfortable doing that-too many steps in that process.

glasskuter · Dec 25, 2022

Amen to what @Porthos said. Imaging is much better than cloning. You do not even have to partition the drive first. Macrium can do it for you during the restore process.

FreeBooter · Dec 25, 2022

In this guide, you will learn the steps to use the free version of Macrium Reflect 8 with the best settings to make automatic backups of a computer running Windows 10 or Windows 11.

zbook · Dec 25, 2022

Please run the V2 log collector and post a share link into this thread using one drive, drop box, or google drive.

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BSOD - Posting Instructions This will show you how to help provide needed information about your system and dump files. It will not contain any personal or sensitive information about you or your data. To get better help with your Windows BSOD issue, please read these instructions and follow...

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SIW2 · Dec 26, 2022

CharlieDog said:
Interesting suggestions, but no one has answered my original question. So, nobody has tried the swap I referenced?

FWIW, the Samsung 860 EVO is a new drive, initialized, partitioned to GPT, formatted to NTFS, single striped partition, did I miss anything?

I tried the disc genius, but it would not install. It gave me a corrupt installation file error-twice.

I watched a couple of videos on the Macrium Image/USB recovery drive, and I will have to watch them a few more times before I get comfortable doing that-too many steps in that process.

Very odd. how did you manage to get a corrupt file download twice.

Macrium buffs often suggest image and restore because macrium is not that great at cloning. Image and restore works but it is extra unnecessary steps.

cereberus · Dec 26, 2022

SIW2 said:
Very odd. how did you manage to get a corrupt file download twice.

Macrium buffs often suggest image and restore because macrium is not that great at cloning. Image and restore works but it is extra unnecessary steps.

Huh - Reflect is one of rhe best cloning tools there is. As it is failing, there is clearly an issue with the drive.

People are focussing.on the tool, nor the problem!

@CharlieDog - do these diagnostic steps.

1) show us an image from disk management of drive

2) try these commands from admin command prompt

diskpart
list disk
select disk n (n is number of the ssd that is having problems)
clean (be sure you have chosen right disk so you wipe correct drive)
convert gpt
create partition primary
format fs=ntfs quick
assign
exit

Drive should now be initialised and visible from File Explorer.

If it gave errors, drive is almost certainly faulty.

idgat · Dec 26, 2022

CharlieDog said:
To explain: I am trying to clone the OS on an HP Laptop14 that now has a WD M.2 SATA SSD to a Samsung M.2 SATA SSD the same size.

Don't clone. Image > restore image.

cereberus · Dec 26, 2022

idgat said:
Don't clone. Image > restore image.

For crying out loud - this is not the issue. It has nothing to do with cloning or imaging. Read the posts!

glasskuter · Dec 26, 2022

CharlieDog said:
when the power is turned on, will it boot off the OS on the SSD in the external drive automatically without making any changes in the boot menu, or will it just not boot at all?

No, it won't. Of course, you can change your boot order in bios to boot from the external drive, but it is easier to bring up the boot menu at startup and select your external drive from the boot options. On an HP, the F9 key brings up the one-time boot menu. Using it keeps you from having to mess around in bios at all.

ish4d0w · Dec 26, 2022

CharlieDog said:
To explain: I am trying to clone the OS on an HP Laptop14

We would need a notebook model number, more specific than Laptop 14. Kindly provide a model number please, it should be written on the notebook itself. Or at least the series. (make sure not to post your unique serial number though, we don't need that!)

CharlieDog said:
that now has a WD M.2 SATA SSD to a Samsung M.2 SATA SSD the same size. I have used Samsung Data Migration many times through the years without a problem, but this time SDM does not recognize the Samsung drive.

Samsung's tool is nice but I find others, such as house favorite Macrium Reflect free edition to be more flexible. As well as EASEUS or AOMEI's free solution. However for the Samsung tool to not recognize a SATA drive, let alone one of their own... that is very odd, and I suspecr a hardware failure here.

CharlieDog said:
I have initialized and formatted the Samsung drive, and it is recognized in Disk Management. It is not however recognized in Device Manager.

This is almost impossible. Are you absolutely sure it is NOT in device manager? Can you post a screenshot with all tabs extracted/rolled down?

CharlieDog said:
In there the connection is recognized. I have tried an external enclosure, a basic board to SATA cable connection,

Wait a moment, what do you mean "SATA cable"? Don't you have an M.2 SATA drive? Those don't really go in with cables but directly to an interface, and their interface is a bit different than regular SATA. Because regular SATA is data-only, while an M.2 SATA interface has power pins too. Of course there are adapters, but... once again a factor of error, can you send us photos of what you did, what you used?

CharlieDog said:
When I googled this problem, one of the suggestions was to put the 'target' Samsung SSD in the laptop and the original SSD with the OS on it into the external enclosure. SDM should be able to recognize it then.

This would only work if you were sure that your external enclosure worked fine, but in that case it should recognize either drive... So no point to do this.

CharlieDog said:
Since the laptop will obviously have to be turned off to make the swap, when the power is turned on, will it boot off the OS on the SSD in the external drive automatically without making any changes in the boot menu, or will it just not boot at all?

No. Windows will not boot from an external drive, not without significant modifications. However it would try to boot from the internal drive.

CharlieDog said:
I have also tried Macrium Reflect, and it starts to clone, then it stops and gives an error 'problem initializing the target disc'.

This very much indicates a hardware problem with the SSD itself.

As for the cloning versus imaging advice given by the others: guys, I think it really doesn't matter.
Macrium is great for cloning. Yes there are cases when it fails but in those cases, an image restoration isn't guaranteed to be perfect either. In those cases you need a sector-by-sector backup, including backup of "free space" , and you need to restore that.
Or, some imaging programs have an option to create a sector-by-sector clone which will do it properly. (I don't think Macrium can do this but I might be wrong, I'm more for Acronis True Image and AOMEI and Clonezilla)

What is very interesting here is that the poster says that the drive is not visible in Device Manager and that Macrium Reflect is unable to initialize it. Make sure not to ignore this crucial piece of information. Of course this is not verified information as he/she is using an external dongle which could alter the device's display name, still it should display. And his/her OS could be blocking the clone operation, for which a rescue disc could be a solution.

@CharlieDog there are two things you could do at this point.

1. Create a rescue disc with Macrium or try other imaging software such as one from Easeus or AOMEI. Boot from the rescue media and start the clone operation from there. You might need to add drivers to the rescue media but these tools will help you do that if you install them.

2. It is quite possible that your drive is faulty. I think this because there is no valid reason why Macrium should be unable to initialize a disk in rescue mode. (And for a system clone operation, it does reboot into rescue mode where AV software will not interfere). Also, Samsung's wizard is unable to do it either.
There are still software configuration steps and mistakes we haven't ruled out, such as SATA configuration. Howerver, it might be necessary to return your new SSD. Or if the return period had passed then you might send it for repairs (RMA) .

Berton · Dec 26, 2022

In reading through this my confusion is coming from the statement

FWIW, the Samsung 860 EVO is a new drive, initialized, partitioned to GPT, formatted to NTFS, single striped partition, did I miss anything?

To me "striping" is RAID 0 and usually requires at least 2 drives. My only RAID is 1 on my 2 x 2TB NAS drive.

TM21 · Dec 26, 2022

In the purest form, cloning is done when two hard drives can be connected to the same motherboard. But, that's usually not possible on most laptops. That's what most Cloning software is expecting to see.

So the alternative, when you can have only ONE drive connected to the motherboard at a time, is to make a backup image file of either your C: partition or your entire HD and save it to an external drive. (it seems like that has already been mentioned)
Then you would swap the drives in the Laptop, boot from your Backup software, either on CD or Flash Drive, and do a restore of the Backup Image file, from where you have it stored, to the new HD now in the drive bay inside your laptop.

Most PC shops, would have a desktop PC, where they could connect both of your drives to the SATA ports on the motherboard. Then they would run their Backup/Restore software from a boot disk. Then they would just CLONE one drive to another.
I've done that more times than I can count, and if you were close enough, I'd invite you to bring your stuff over here and I'd to the job for you. No fee. Guaranteed satisfaction!

This is an OLD picture, as maybe you can tell
from the old drives. In this picture I was cloning the Win-7 drive to an old Win-XP drive. I keep my main PC open for just such
a time as this. As a working computer tech, I do this stuff a lot.

Good luck, Mate!
TM

zbook · Dec 26, 2022

If it is a striped volume then it is a dynamic disk (not a basic disk).

How to establish a striped volume (RAID 0) in Windows Server 2003 - Windows Server

Describes the steps to establish a striped volume (RAID 0) in Windows Server 2003.

learn.microsoft.com

zbook · Dec 26, 2022

Clicking on My Computer did not display both computers.
The second computer option had to have been clicked.
Clicking on the User name then viewing system specs displayed information on the second computer:

HP Laptop14-cf1020od

The computer uses Intel Rapid Storage Technology Drivers (IRST).

HP Notebook - 14-cf1020od Software and Driver Downloads | HP® Customer Support

Download the latest drivers, firmware, and software for your HP Notebook - 14-cf1020od.This is HP’s official website that will help automatically detect and download the correct drivers free of cost for your HP Computing and Printing products for Windows and Mac operating system.

support.hp.com

HP Notebook - 14-cf1020od Product Specifications | HP® Customer Support

Looking for upgrade or update information? Trying to find the names of components or programs? This document contains the technical details for this product.

support.hp.com

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