Solved PSU full of dust

kelper · Nov 19, 2023

Dru2 said:
Anyway, the point it to warn to be careful dissembling power supplies, not push "what you think" is a myth.

Peace

I object to your accusation. I just quoted Overclock. Those were not my words. I'm only certified up to 14kV, what would I know?

Ghot · Nov 19, 2023

Ghot thinks it may be time to.... sing the Barney song.
Yes, that's a threat.

Dru2 · Nov 19, 2023

kelper said:
I object to your accusation. I just quoted Overclock. Those were not my words. I'm only certified up to 14kV, what would I know?

So why post something like that if you know better???

antspants · Nov 19, 2023

kelper said:
According to Overclock

"We've all heard it at least once. "Dude, don't open up that power supply, the capacitors will shock you and you'll die! You have to unplug it, flip its switch twenty times, leave it out overnight, then you can open it up; but don't forget to wear rubber gloves and to say the special shock-warding chant!"

It's a tiresome myth, perpetuated by CRT repair technicians and overzealous nervous ninnies. While capacitor safety is very important, when it comes to consumer power supplies life is a lot simpler than what this myth would lead you to believe.

Capacitor Safety In Power Supplies

We've all heard it at least once. "Dude, don't open up that power supply, the capacitors will shock you and you'll die! You have to unplug it, flip its switch twenty times, leave it out overnight, then you can open it up; but don't forget to wear rubber gloves and to say the special...

www.overclock.net

DISCUSS!

I’d agree. And you’re not supposed to open the PSU and start sticking screwdrivers in and around the capacitors, adjusting stuff with a sledge hammer or peeing on the unit while it’s turned on. You’re unscrewing 4 screws and unpinning a connection, replacing the fan. At your own risk. If the fan is hardwired, dump the PSU and buy a new one, if it’s connected by pins, replace it. If you do something stupid and it kills you, not my problem. Tell Jebus he ows me fiddy.

Almighty1 · Nov 20, 2023

Winuser said:
WD-40 is a special blend of lubricants. Another probably little known fact is the the WD-40 stands for water displacement formula 40. Here are some facts about WD-40. WD-40 Myths & Fun Facts | Facts About WD-40 Products | WD-40

That's their own website and marketing.... So always take it with two huge grains of salt. It will work for a few weeks or up to a month but won't last long since there is a difference between a quality lubricant and a lubricant. It will loosen stuck parts, etc.

Almighty1 · Nov 20, 2023

kelper said:
I had a cuckoo clock that stopped after a few years. I removed the mechanism and oiled all the spindles with synthetic clock oil but this didn't fix it. So, I drenched it in WD-40 and doubled up on the weight to get it going. After a day I took the second weight off and the clock has run fine ever since. I think the original lubricant had gone gummy and WD-40 dissolved it. But I don't use WD-40 on places that require grease. As many said it will wash the grease away.

What some people do with clocks is they use lighter fluid to flush out the old stuff and then they apply the clock oil except what's the best clock oil is still up to debate.

Almighty1 · Nov 20, 2023

It's absolutely correct that you can get killed from messing with anything plugged into the wall. One time I took off the cover of a new Proceed AMP5 Audio Amplifier which is 125 lbs in weight as this is a baby Mark Levinson because shipping caused a dent and it won't turn on when plugged in so I forgot to unplug the wall outlet and as soon as the cover touched something for 1/8th a second, there was a spark. I always wear rubber gloves so always take the necessary precautions, this was back in 1997 or so. With the PC Power & Cooling PSU, it was a different issue as this was a $500+ PSU and I did ask on badcaps forums for what would be suitable replacements for each of the capacitors even though the PSU was actively being used but I believe disconnected the power first and then held the power button down for some time and then still waited a day or more before touching it and also wore rubber gloves, etc.

kelper · Nov 20, 2023

Dru2 said:
So why post something like that if you know better???

I agree with the Overclock article but I'm not pushing anything. The discussion was one sided and I posted an alternative viewpoint.
I don't own any desktops, so I challenge you to switch off a PSU, open the case and see if you can find any volts using a DMM, not an oscillscope.

Dru2 · Nov 20, 2023

kelper said:
I agree with the Overclock article but I'm not pushing anything. The discussion was one sided and I posted an alternative viewpoint.
I don't own any desktops, so I challenge you to switch off a PSU, open the case and see if you can find any volts using a DMM, not an oscillscope.

Teen electrocuted while taking apart unplugged computer

In an activity familiar to any kid with a passion for electronics, the life of a 16-year-old boy in Shawnee, Kan., was cut short last month while he was taking apart a computer, stripping it for parts to build another."He was always kinda tinkering with computers," Capt. Dan Tennis of the...

www.today.com

Movin on

Winuser · Nov 20, 2023

Almighty1 said:
That's their own website and marketing.... So always take it with two huge grains of salt. It will work for a few weeks or up to a month but won't last long since there is a difference between a quality lubricant and a lubricant. It will loosen stuck parts, etc.

In your post you stated that WD-40 isn't a lubricant but it is a lubricant. It's a very light lubricant but it's still a lubricant. I have used it for years. Getting back on subject, for something small like that I would recommend sewing machine oil or 3-in-1 household oil.

Winuser · Nov 20, 2023

Dru2 said:
On the serious side, never dissemble a power supply if you're not experienced in such things as it could cost you our life...

Teen electrocuted while salvaging parts from a computer

Anyone that's worked with computer hardware knows there are some risks involved. Sharp edges inside a case can leave your hands and fingers looking like you lost...

www.techspot.com

Teen electrocuted while taking apart unplugged computer

In an activity familiar to any kid with a passion for electronics, the life of a 16-year-old boy in Shawnee, Kan., was cut short last month while he was taking apart a computer, stripping it for parts to build another."He was always kinda tinkering with computers," Capt. Dan Tennis of the...

www.today.com

Opening it and blowing dust out is one thing, dissembling it is another.... even if replacing the fan. In short... KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!!

I feel sorry for the boy and his family. I do wonder if the computer was really unplugged before the tragic accident and not after.

kelper · Nov 20, 2023

My guess would be that even it had been plugged in, the father or the paramedics would have unplugged it. The story is all hearsay and dates from 2012.

Dru2 · Nov 20, 2023

Winuser said:
I feel sorry for the boy and his family. I do wonder if the computer was really unplugged before the tragic accident and not after.

My point and only point is to warn users, before dispensing with the advice of opening a power supply since not knowing what you're doing and blindly poking around can clearly kill if you.

From the article...

Unfortunately, this last time he happened to get too close to the device's power supply. Maybe he was careless this once, maybe he was distracted, maybe he was just unlucky.

For me, anytime someone asks about opening a power supply, I leave them with that advice. We all do things we ought not to do, I'm just warning about power supplies. If you know what you're doing my warning is needless; if you don't, you may not get a second chance to learn.

Me, I'm the adventurous type, but I have some basic knowledge and also understand the risks.

Peace

Almighty1 · Nov 21, 2023

Winuser said:
In your post you stated that WD-40 isn't a lubricant but it is a lubricant. It's a very light lubricant but it's still a lubricant. I have used it for years. Getting back on subject, for something small like that I would recommend sewing machine oil or 3-in-1 household oil.

Maybe not a real quality lubricant because I know everyone recommends against it in discussions even in the 1990s and 2000s. I've used it on my laptop fans back in the 2000s, the ones where the entire fan is the size of a quarter so there are only holes on the back but you can't open it but it never lasts long. With current notebooks, the ones where I actually has a place for putting in the oil, it worked for 2 weeks. Super Slick Slick Stuff worked for 1 month. Motor Oil which is what 3-in-1 Motor Oil is basically SAE20 Motor Oil works and it's been 6 months and still running. And ofcourse this is reading about what works best and long lasting since I am not going to open my notebook regularly as unlike a desktop where the case screws are easy to find replacements, the screws or the screwholes on the notebook will strip sooner or later if you keep opening and closing it too many times. As I don't drive, I basically bought this:

Mobil 1™ 15W-50 | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Mobil 1™ 15W-50 is designed to help keep your engine running like new by providing outstanding wear protection, cleaning power and overall performance.

www.mobil.com

and it's been working better than anything else and was cheap for a quart compared to the 3oz in the 3-in-1 motor oil for half the price. Some people choose to use lithium grease but have not been able to find the quality ones except online and they cost more than the motor oil.

If WD-40 worked, I would have used it instead since I always have WD-40 which I use for everything else.

johnlgalt · Nov 21, 2023

kelper said:
Aren't modern electronics designed to leak away the capacitor charge when not powered? Anyway, you can clean a PSU with an air duster without dismantling it.

Slowly. and not always fully. Which is why I only get PSUs with a physical on / off switch, so I can flip it off, then power cycle the tower a couple of times to drain as much as possible.

And even then I'm extremely careful about randomly touching things inside. Most people without electrical training won't think about that.

And, technically, you can try to air it out, but so many nooks and crannies that won't let go of dust. I open mine to more fully clean them, as needed. Maybe every 2 years or so.

Which, now that I think about it ... it's time for mine - in fact, it's a bit overdue, but a visual inspection shows the orientation I placed it in the case just over the screen has helped tremendously in keeping it a lot cleaner than 3+ years of use would normally get me lol.

johnlgalt · Nov 21, 2023

kelper said:
According to Overclock

"We've all heard it at least once. "Dude, don't open up that power supply, the capacitors will shock you and you'll die! You have to unplug it, flip its switch twenty times, leave it out overnight, then you can open it up; but don't forget to wear rubber gloves and to say the special shock-warding chant!"

It's a tiresome myth, perpetuated by CRT repair technicians and overzealous nervous ninnies. While capacitor safety is very important, when it comes to consumer power supplies life is a lot simpler than what this myth would lead you to believe.

Capacitor Safety In Power Supplies

We've all heard it at least once. "Dude, don't open up that power supply, the capacitors will shock you and you'll die! You have to unplug it, flip its switch twenty times, leave it out overnight, then you can open it up; but don't forget to wear rubber gloves and to say the special...

www.overclock.net

DISCUSS!

Finding something a little more recent would be nice. For example, in 2011 exactly how many users were using PSUs that were 1000W+ rated?

Call it a myth if you want - but I'm not going to be the one to test it, thanks.

kelper · Nov 21, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Slowly. and not always fully. Which is why I only get PSUs with a physical on / off switch, so I can flip it off, then power cycle the tower a couple of times to drain as much as possible.

And even then I'm extremely careful about randomly touching things inside. Most people without electrical training won't think about that.

And, technically, you can try to air it out, but so many nooks and crannies that won't let go of dust. I open mine to more fully clean them, as needed. Maybe every 2 years or so.

Which, now that I think about it ... it's time for mine - in fact, it's a bit overdue, but a visual inspection shows the orientation I placed it in the case just over the screen has helped tremendously in keeping it a lot cleaner than 3+ years of use would normally get me lol.

Well, please could you test my theory that there are no hazardous voltages in an ATX PSU after it has been disconnected from the mains?

The circuit diagrams I have looked at show a ~570K resistor bridging each capacitor. This is for load balancing and to leak away the charge.

johnlgalt · Nov 21, 2023

Nope. I won't - I'll just not touch them. No accidents that way.

Almighty1 · Nov 22, 2023

kelper said:
Well, please could you test my theory that there are no hazardous voltages in an ATX PSU after it has been disconnected from the mains?

The circuit diagrams I have looked at show a ~570K resistor bridging each capacitor. This is for load balancing and to leak away the charge.

Interesting you would even find diagrams of PSUs as usually this is unpublished information... You can look at my thread to see what I replaced...

Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Supply - Badcaps Forums

Replacement Capacitors for PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Turbo-Cool 450ATX Power Supply Troubleshooting Power Supplies and Power Supply Design

www.badcaps.net

Almighty1 · Nov 22, 2023

Ghot said:
If the PSU is past warranty, you can also open it up and blow the dust out.
Remember, that there is either 110v or 240v in the PSU on the primary side.
That's enough voltage (and amperage), to use dust as a conductor.

Too much dust in the PSU can kill other components, and can catch on fire as well.
If the PSU "only" overheats and dies... you'll be... lucky.

If you do decide to open the PSU, remember to discharge the capacitors first...

1. Turn off the computer and turn off the PSU, but leave it hooked to the wall outlet.
2. Hold the power switch on the case down for about 20 seconds. This will discharge the capacitors.
3. Then, unplug the PSU from the wall out let and open it up.
4. I still wouldn't touch anything in there.... just blow it out.

P.S. These are U.S. instructions. The EU does weird things with electricity. (@Try3)

Is #1 to leave the PSU connected to the wall outlet actually correct? Since normally I would disconnect it from the wall outlet for #1.

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