So, I got obsessed with achieving the perfect clean install and it took me a week and many many attempts. Feel free to comment what can be improved.

DesignHeaad9206 · Aug 18, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
1. Find and download a Windows ISO, from a Trusted Source.
2. Burn the ISO to a clean Flash Drive, using the latest "Rufus".
3, Use the new Flash Drive, to boot up the PC and perform the Windows Install.

Dear Mage,

you mentioned Rufus a few times and I asked what are the advantages of using it vs the official Media Creation Tool.
Considering what I mention in my post (disabling useless things, debloatin, etc) I thought that with Rufus one could do that BEFORE installing Windows, = taking away from the installation file all the things that you already know that you don't want, so that you don't need to do that every time you install Windows).
But I've DuckDuckgoed a bit and it doesn't seem that Rufus offer that option?
The only difference that I've seen mentioned between Rufus and MCT is that Rufus can be used with other OS (which I don't care) and lets you choose the partition type (I don'T need that, my BIOS is UEFI and MCT automatically sets GPT anyway).
One website mentions that "Rufus takes 100% disk utilization while Windows Media Creation Tool leaves acceptable space in disk utilization", which I don't understand what it means (correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like MCT doesn't partition the full disk or something like that?).

Apart for that, why would someone in my case prefer Rufus over MCT (please try to consider my case, so I can understand the advantages that Rufus would have for my needs)?

Now, if there was a program like Rufus that is preferably also open source (otherwise I won't trust anything that meddle with the Windows files during installation when Defender can't yet say "hey, wtf are you doing?") and lets me debloat PRIORS to the installation, like taking away this and that app and service and whatever, this would be nice.

I just received a Crucial T500 1TB because I needed more space and I thought it was nice having a faster SSD once I buy a new one.
So basically I'm going to wait for your answer before doing anything

TraderGary · Aug 18, 2024

DesignHeaad9206 said:
I would probably do the same if I had the money to buy a new laptop (or maybe even better a PC and a laptop, so I don't need the laptop to be light and powerful - which usually means noisy because to make them light and thin they sacrifice cooling-).
But until I am stuck with this one, I need to skim all what I don't need that would contribute to trigger the fans.
And I'm telling you, just only using AdGuard instead of uBlock Origin as Firefox addon DOES make a difference. Every time that I use AdGuard because it can block something that uBlock can't, the fans are immediately triggered.

The only thing I would still do anyway even on a powerful and silent system is disabling all what concerns me for privacy, like telemetry, error reporting etc.

Yes, it really does depend on how much you want to spend for a premium laptop. Click on "My Computers" to see what I'm using. It uses vapor chamber cooling, and I've yet to hear the fans.

bikemanI7 · Aug 18, 2024

Purchased Prebuilt Ibuypower Desktop on July 9th 2024

Received System on July 12th

I'll admit i probably should've done a clean install then, but wanted to wait til i paid for MS Store upgrade to Windows 11 Pro

Now all i have to do is find the time to do the clean install, fix Sata connection on my board, check front fan connection to make sure its on Fan sensing port 1 on included fan hub

Plan right now is

1. Do the Hardware changes, might leave Sata cable for the sata drive unplugged from Motherboard for the Clean Install, thats easy to get to once the install is done
2. Do the Install
3. Install the Needed Drivers
4. Connect Internet (Ethernet wire) Install Windows Updates til there is no more shown
5. Do First System Image with Acronis, so if problems in the future can just restore it if needed
6. Shutdown System, Reconnect Sata drive into Sata_1 port, versus where its at now Sata A_3 lol
7. Begin reinstalling games
8. Relax hopefully, and enjoy a good dinner
9. Sleep hopefully good later in the evening

**Not sure if Reinstalling 3rd Party Firestorm PBR Viewer for SecondLife or just using the Offical SecondLife 64bit PBR Viewer at this point**

Guess i'll decide on that later on, waiting to see if today if Real Life interruptions are nuts, or if there not nuts

Scannerman · Aug 18, 2024

pparks1 said:
i long time ago, i used to tinker a lot more with my computers than I do these days. I attribute it to the fact that I'm an IT guy for a living and honestly when I get home, I just want my stuff to work and I don't want to constantly futz with it.

I can appreciate a clean install, however I really put 0 effort into try to really minimize any resource usage on the box. I clean install, I connect to the Internet, I let Windows update run until it's down, I install 3rd party drivers for anything else in device manager that might be broken, and then I take an image that I call my vanilla image. Unless I run into problems in the next few days, it's highly unlikely I would use that image, but I have it just in case. I then sit down and install the handful of apps that I use on a regular basis. Once i have them installed and basics configured, I take one more image called base with apps.

As long as it's running okay, not bluescreening, or sitting at 100% CPU usage, I consider it good enough. I don't care if there are 77 processes running, I don't really care if it's taking 32.1GB of storage, or 24.42GB. I'll check a few benchmarks to make sure that my hardware is approximately where it should be. For example, my Gen 4 PCIe WD SN850 should score around 7000 read and 5100 write. If it's 6600 and 4750...it's right in the ballpark. If on the other hand, it's 2100 and 1400....well then I am going to take a look at the drivers and try to get it corrected.

Other than that, I figure that all the time i spent trying to tweak the bejezus out of everything is going to far and away exceed the extra time my computer would take without making those changes and thus i'm wasting precious time rather than gaining. it.

It behooves me to say that I'm pretty much the same way these days. Why do all that work if it takes up so much of your time you don't even get to use your PC for the reasons you turned it on in the first place? A person can spend hours and hours messing with their PC trying to repair issues or they can simply just reinstall, tend to the basics, and get on with the real reason they have a PC.

Personal data is so easy to protect these days, even without the cloud, if you simply back it up in some way, shape, or form. If it's going to take 6 hours to fix a problem then you're better off doing a reinstall and fixing the issue in less than half the time in most cases. Sure, there may be the odd exception to this rule but the exception only proves the rule. Why waste time?

There was a time when it was practical to scrimp and save as much bandwidth and resources as possible. There was also a time when most PCs used mechanical hard drives for their operating system and a reinstall took like. . . FOREVER. I remember the days when 128 MB of RAM was huge. Today, I'm using 128 GB of RAM. I never run out of resources. My CPU never peaks out and I have more storage than I can shake a stick at. Maybe I'm just getting lazy in my old age but I'm not about to apologize for it. I get to use my PC for what I intended to do with it.

Once a year I give my computers an overhaul. That should be enough. I never turn on automatic updates. I update when I'm good and ready to update and when Windows update gives me a hard time I just simply disable it until I'm ready to tackle the issue. This approach has been working very well for me. As for drivers, if you get them from the manufacturer and keep them updated from the same source Windows won't mess with them. At least that has been my experience and I'm guessing it's because I don't use automatic updates.

DesignHeaad9206 · Aug 18, 2024

GUYS!!!
I've found something.
You probably know it, but I didn't and it's exactly what I fantasized that Rufus was, when @TechnoMage2021 was putting so much emphasis on Rufus and I could not understand what's so great in it compared to the Media Creation Tool.
Well, I still can't understand that, but I've found two tools which can debloat Windows PRIOR to the installation, creating an installation file without all the things that you don't want, while adding things you want like for instance Powershell7 or all the newest drivers that you have downloaded, so you don't have to install them after the Windows installation manually!!!

One tool is called MSMG Toolkit and the other is called DISMTools. The first is DOS "UI", the other has a proper GUI.
They're both free and open source!

I am going to try them out RIGHT NOW, and may this be the beginning of a more successful obsessive/compulsive clean install journey.

dacrone · Aug 18, 2024

No you can’t just disable the service or huh wouldn’t be able to search for updates, let alone install them. What I said to do is to disable windows’ annoyance of telling you when/which updates to install.

Releases · DavidXanatos/wumgr

Windows update managemetn tool for windows 10. Contribute to DavidXanatos/wumgr development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

DesignHeaad9206 · Aug 19, 2024

dacrone said:
No you can’t just disable the service or huh wouldn’t be able to search for updates

I meant to disable it until all what I want is installed, because in my case there was not only the issue that WU was installing weird older drivers during normal use of the OS, but that right after the clean install while LG Update was installing its stuff Windows was finding a way to install what it wanted regardless of what I could disable in GPEDIT, leaving me with the feeling that I could just disable the whole service.
Yet, it managed to sneak something even with WU service completely disabled. Unbelievable.

Now, how would you disable the notifications for updates?
And can you tell me more about the program you use to check updates?

DesignHeaad9206 · Aug 19, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
2. Burn the ISO to a clean Flash Drive, using the latest "Rufus".

Hey, I tried Rufus.
WHY does no freaking website say that the MAJOR difference between Rufus and Windows Media Creation Tool is that Rufus automatically puts the drivers that you have installed and a few more settings?
It's a but uncool that there is no way to choose what is included but it's still much better than Media Creation Tool.
Unless it has nothing to do with Rufus and it happened for divine grace or something?
You tell me, you're the Rufus expert :)

Scannerman · Aug 19, 2024

Hey, I tried Rufus.
WHY does no freaking website say that the MAJOR difference between Rufus and Windows Media Creation Tool is that Rufus automatically puts the drivers that you have installed and a few more settings?

Rufus also makes it possible for you to install newer operating systems on older PCs — even computers using BIOS instead of UEFI. It also gives you the option of bypassing many of the unwanted features found in newer operating systems. I don't know what version you are using but Rufus allowed me a way to choose what to use while excluding other features. Depending on which version of Windows 11 you are using sometimes even keeping the install offline will prove difficult because the installation will keep prompting you for your Microsoft account regardless. Rufus eliminates that too. It has been my personal experience that Windows will give you the basic drivers required to get your system up and running. After this you can install your proprietary drivers and upgrade them. To the best of my knowledge I've never had Windows prevent me from installing proprietary drivers made to work with the Windows operating system.

I hope this helps.

TM21 · Aug 19, 2024

I don't think that Rufus was ever intended to be the fix all to end all kind of program, but just one heck of a good ASSISTANT in preparing an ISO for burning to a Flash Drive.
I don't have UEFI on any of my Desktop PC's. and Rufus allows me to specify MBR and BIOS as the format to use.
Then after v 4.0 (I think it was) they now offer the Options Menu:

All told, it can prepare a Windows ISO to install on my 12 yr old PC without any problems at all. You can either put in your own user name, a generic, like I've done, or leave that option UN-Checked. I recommend taking all the other options.
Like so many programs of a technical nature, it can be a little bit daunting to the untrained, uninformed or Computer Nubie.
Here's how I set up Rufus to burn a Windows 11 ISO for installation on my own (12 yr old) PC:

In this instance, I was using a Flash Drive which previously had Zorin on it. And I was burning an ISO of Broadcom's Ghost, Backup & Restore program.
That Flash Drive is now my Backup flash drive. I didn't get the Options menu, since I was not burning a Windows ISO.

Rufus has been a God Send to me, since I can occasionally burn several ISO's per week.

Cheers mates!
TM

cereberus · Aug 19, 2024

All this debloating reminds me of the says some people used to strip down their motor bikes, put it back together and there was always at least one part leftover.

No surprise the bikes always played up or broke down. Then cycle starts all over again - bike is stripped down again.

Stripping down Windows always seems to be a good idea, until something breaks due to an unforeseen consequence/inter dependency.

The most obvious point is “If it ain't broke, don't fix it" LOL!

TM21 · Aug 19, 2024

But Dude, Microsoft only offers BROKE stuff. Then they update it and make it even Brokerererer.
Thank GOD there is someone out there, who has the time and knowledge to make it Betterererer.

I'm sorry if you can't take advantage of that. By Choice, or just gross ignorance?

cereberus · Aug 19, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
But Dude, Microsoft only offers BROKE stuff. Then they update it and make it even Brokerererer.
Thank GOD there is someone out there, who has the time and knowledge to make it Betterererer.

I'm sorry if you can't take advantage of that. By Choice, or just gross ignorance?

Nonsense!

Scannerman · Aug 19, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
But Dude, Microsoft only offers BROKE stuff. Then they update it and make it even Brokerererer.
Thank GOD there is someone out there, who has the time and knowledge to make it Betterererer.

I'm sorry if you can't take advantage of that. By Choice, or just gross ignorance?

I gotta admit I'm with you on that. Windoze always comes out of the box broken. No doubt about it. If it isn't broken why do they have to keep on patching it up? That's like saying you have a flat but the tire is fine. Admittedly, the more that one tweaks a Windoze OS the more they risk having issues later on down the line. Methinks Microsoft made it that way deliberately. But hey, for some enthusiasts that's half the fun! After all, it isn't as though Windoze is open source. Even Win 8.1 (which wasn't half bad) and the legendary Win XP needed patching.

If your PC is working fine don't worry. Before long Windoze will find a screw-you-update and you can have some fun along with the rest and the best of them. So don't feel left out. Nobody builds a house of cards quite like Microsoft. Frankly, I have to commend them for such brilliance. One way or another Microsoft will ALWAYS get you tweaking. You either do it their way or you do it your way. Either way YOU are the beta tester. MS fired their employed beta testers long ago. Now we get to have fun!

pparks1 · Aug 19, 2024

Scannerman said:
I gotta admit I'm with you on that. Windoze always comes out of the box broken. No doubt about it. If it isn't broken why do they have to keep on patching it up?

I think that's true for all software. Of course some of these patches fix problems with things like security. Some add additional functionality or new applications that didn't exist before....so not exactly fixing something broken.

Scannerman said:
Admittedly, the more that one tweaks a Windoze OS the more they risk having issues later on down the line. Methinks Microsoft made it that way deliberately.

I don't think they do this deliberately, but for sure they are going to test all new patches and thus on standard releases and settings, and certainly not with the myriad of changes that any end user can do on their own with scripts, regedits, ui tweakers, etc. Therefor the more you tweak and try to force it the way you want, the more risk i think you run with future patches.

I remember eons ago, I'm pretty sure it was a service pack that MS put out and it caused tons of bluescreening. Users were mad, "how could MS release this without testing it, etc, etc, etc". Turns out all of the machines impacted had the sony DRM rootkit scandal on them. Well, clearly MS wasn't going to infect their machines with the most common malware to see how their patch reacts.

dacrone · Aug 19, 2024

DesignHeaad9206 said:
I meant to disable it until all what I want is installed, because in my case there was not only the issue that WU was installing weird older drivers during normal use of the OS, but that right after the clean install while LG Update was installing its stuff Windows was finding a way to install what it wanted regardless of what I could disable in GPEDIT, leaving me with the feeling that I could just disable the whole service.
Yet, it managed to sneak something even with WU service completely disabled. Unbelievable.

Now, how would you disable the notifications for updates?
And can you tell me more about the program you use to check updates?

GPEdit > Computer configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Manage End User Experience > Display Options for Update Notifications

Set to Enabled & 2

TM21 · Aug 19, 2024

Years ago, when MS started patching Windows, I started getting calls from my customers, that they got an update and then couldn't get into their PC any more. Arggg! After running way too many of those calls, I vowed to NEVER allow any Windows updates on any PC of mine.
And y'know what? I've never once regretted that decision. My PC's always run fast, and run GREAT, without any input from Microsoft.
MS's broke sh** got so bad, I stopped getting my Winders from MS.
The Winders I download and run, are Clean, Lean, and Mean, and just run like a scalded cat!!! NO BSOD's, NO Freezes and NO Crashes.

Y'all just don't know what you're missing.

Good Luck,
TM

Scannerman · Aug 19, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
Y'all just don't know what you're missing.

Good Luck,
TM

I have an old Acer still running Win 8.1 that I use almost every day for entertainment purposes. I turned off Windoze Screw-you-updates five years ago on that machine and never had a blue screen on it since. I don't make online purchases on it, I don't run accounts on it, no online banking etc. I use it for watching documentaries, listening to music, checking the weather, blah blah blah — standard domestic normie stuff. ZERO BSODs and I use it nearly every day. Imagine that.

Scannerman · Aug 20, 2024

pparks1 said:
I think that's true for all software. Of course some of these patches fix problems with things like security. Some add additional functionality or new applications that didn't exist before....so not exactly fixing something broken.

Well, hey. Nothing in the world of technology lasts forever. I've put a fresh perspective on tech: All technology is busted. Doesn't matter what you buy because it's always compromised in some way, shape, or form. We pay the big bux to get what is less broken (and often don't get what we paid for) but no way will we obtain perfect because tech is all man made. It can be equally stated that standard programs, apps, executables, etc. are known to fail on current and 'compliant' operating systems. Even older programs that certainly existed before can and do fail. Stuff happens. Personally, I give Microsoft the trophy for proving this to be the case and it used to really, really bother me but not so much anymore. Life's too short to get stressed out over buggy tech and Microsoft is full of it (in many splendorous ways). Besides, there's always Linux.

I don't think they do this deliberately, but for sure they are going to test all new patches and thus on standard releases and settings, and certainly not with the myriad of changes that any end user can do on their own with scripts, regedits, ui tweakers, etc. Therefor the more you tweak and try to force it the way you want, the more risk i think you run with future patches.

This is why I resorted to the 'house of cards' analogy. I don't think devs in MS are thinking, "hmm... what can I do now to screw over the end user". That's just ludicrous. (Mind, for that to happen all it would take is one disgruntled employee in the wrong place @ the wrong time.) I think it's more like deliberate negligence, a sort of slap it together and get 'er dun sort of mentality. "Let the chips fall where they may, we can always patch it later if it turns out to be a big problem..." Approach. After all, MS is in it for the money and how can we begrudge them that? So as the volume of sales increases the quality of workmanship decreases (volume, volume, turn up the volume) and things just get sloppier and sloppier until you wind up with something like Windoze Mistake Edition, or Windoze Vista. They don't have the time or the resources to make quality products anymore because they have shareholders to answer to. Besides, where is the competition? A: There isn't any.

pparks1 said:
I remember eons ago, I'm pretty sure it was a service pack that MS put out and it caused tons of bluescreening. Users were mad, "how could MS release this without testing it, etc, etc, etc". Turns out all of the machines impacted had the sony DRM rootkit scandal on them. Well, clearly MS wasn't going to infect their machines with the most common malware to see how their patch reacts.

I remember that too and you do make a valid point here. Howbeit, given the massive popularity of Sony and the rights and permissions that went along with that proprietary software I THINK MS could have afforded to sacrifice a few isolated PCs for precisely that purpose, i.e. "infect their machines with the most common malware" and see what pans out. BUT I believe by that time they had already fired their beta testers so that was not likely to happen. Today, we, the plebs, get to pay Microsoft to do their beta testing for them. A positively brilliant move on the part of Microsoft don'tcha think?

pparks1 · Aug 20, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
Years ago, when MS started patching Windows, I started getting calls from my customers, that they got an update and then couldn't get into their PC any more. Arggg! After running way too many of those calls, I vowed to NEVER allow any Windows updates on any PC of mine.
And y'know what? I've never once regretted that decision. My PC's always run fast, and run GREAT, without any input from Microsoft.
MS's broke sh** got so bad, I stopped getting my Winders from MS.
The Winders I download and run, are Clean, Lean, and Mean, and just run like a scalded cat!!! NO BSOD's, NO Freezes and NO Crashes.

Y'all just don't know what you're missing.

Good Luck,
TM

Yet, somehow I have managed all of my home machines and thousands of servers professionally, keeping them all updated with very little problems whatsoever. I used to wait a month or so after a service pack would release, but ever since they want to just patches via windows updates, I've been on automatic updates and have never considered turning them off.

Guess we all just have different experiences.

So, I got obsessed with achieving the perfect clean install and it took me a week and many many attempts. Feel free to comment what can be improved.

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