Solved W11 24h2 and old installation setup

spapakons · Jul 17, 2024

Let's keep things simple. Create a standard Windows 11 23H2 USB flash drive, then replace install.wim (or install.esd) with that from 24H2 ISO. Now boot with this hybrid Windows 11 23H2/24H2 USB to install Windows 11 24H2.

garlin · Jul 17, 2024

While it sounds easy, this workaround doesn't address the Black Lotus UEFI security hole. We know the 24H2 ISO has the updated boot files, but 23H2 or earlier ISO's don't. So if you care about the vulnerability, it's up to you to fix the host ISO.

Simply moving the install image around doesn't update the host ISO's boot.wim.

hsehestedt · Jul 17, 2024

I'm wondering if the difference between the old and new setup is basically just the look and feel of the dialog screens during setup. It looks to me like the end result is all the same, so it may simply be stylistic differences.

Since unattended setup is going to bypass all of this, I wonder if there is simply no need to switch between an old and new setup in unattended setup.

In any case, both the old and new setups work flawlessly for me now, as does unattended setup.

spapakons · Jul 18, 2024

The whole point of creating a hybrid USB is because the 24H2 bootloader is UEFI only, it doesn't boot in Legacy BIOS mode. So if you want to create a Legacy BIOS (MBR) installation you need this hybrid USB. Because Windows Setup will install the new 24H2 bootloader, you have to replace it with the 23H2 one after each restart until the installation is complete. Also have in mind that any Windows update might replace the bootloader and render the system unbootable. So you need to replace it again to boot into your Legacy BIOS installation. The same is true for upgrading from Legacy 23H2 installation to 24H2. You must replace the bootloader after each restart until the upgrade is complete. Also others might have an UEFI mode (GPT) installation but prefer the old Setup interface, especially if their unattended scripts don't work with the new Setup.

garlin · Jul 18, 2024

hsehestedt said:
I'm wondering if the difference between the old and new setup is basically just the look and feel of the dialog screens during setup. It looks to me like the end result is all the same, so it may simply be stylistic differences.

Since unattended setup is going to bypass all of this, I wonder if there is simply no need to switch between an old and new setup in unattended setup.

In any case, both the old and new setups work flawlessly for me now, as does unattended setup.

No, it's very different now. Running ProcMon in 23H2, you only see a single process: setup.exe

Running ProcMon in 24H2:

When you switch to legacy mode, 24H2 logs refers to the old setup.exe as BlueBox (because "New Coke" is White, and "Old Coke" is Blue).

MS rarely makes any changes to the Unattended file format. While it's backwards compatible the UI and the progress indicators are far different. I imagine there's other changes under the hood. SetupPrep.exe has always there for in-place upgrades, but we're running a clean install.

hsehestedt · Jul 18, 2024

garlin said:
No, it's very different now. Running ProcMon in 23H2, you only see a single process: setup.exe

View attachment 101605

Running ProcMon in 24H2:

View attachment 101606

When you switch to legacy mode, 24H2 logs refers to the old setup.exe as BlueBox (because "New Coke" is White, and "Old Coke" is Blue).

View attachment 101607

MS rarely makes any changes to the Unattended file format. While it's backwards compatible the UI and the progress indicators are far different. I imagine there's other changes under the hood. SetupPrep.exe has always there for in-place upgrades, but we're running a clean install.

Thanks, Garlin. That's a great summary.

One other thing that I have noticed:

I always update my Windows images by injecting the latest Patch Tuesday updates. This includes the latest cumulative update / SSU, SafeOS update, Setup update, .NET update, etc. When I do this with 24H2 release preview builds, the resulting media simply doesn't work for a clean install. It's possible that not all the updates needed are being made available on the Microsoft Update Catalog. I'm just hoping that it is not something greater that is going to cause me great difficulties in the future once the final x64 builds are released.

spapakons · Jul 18, 2024

I would avoid injecting updates just in case the Setup is affected like you said. I would download all the updates from Microsoft Update Catalog and save to a folder in the Windows 11 Setup USB. So after I install Windows 11 I don't have to download them again, just install them. It is safer. The only think I would inject would be drivers, but again these can become outdated. Why not download them in a folder so you can update them as needed? That's what I do since Windows 95. Download all drivers in C:\DRIVERS and replace as needed.

jeffreywen · Jul 18, 2024

tistou77 said:
I'm talking about this (what else could it be?)

View attachment 98290

And my question is in the 1st post

Hi There,

if your HDD setting in BIOS is Raid mode, you shall use the "Previous Version Setup", otherwise after setup start, it won't boot due to no bootable driver.

garlin · Jul 18, 2024

After playing around, the workaround was rather simple. Just run the old version, X:\sources\setup.exe

You can insert this XML block into your answer file:

Code:

        <settings pass="windowsPE">
                <component name="Microsoft-Windows-Setup" processorArchitecture="amd64" publicKeyToken="31bf3856ad364e35" language="neutral" versionScope="nonSxS" xmlns:wcm="http://schemas.microsoft.com/WMIConfig/2002/State" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
                        <RunSynchronous>
                                <RunSynchronousCommand wcm:action="add">
                                        <Description>Switch to legacy Setup</Description>
                                        <Order>1</Order>
                                        <Path>reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup" /v CmdLine /t REG_SZ /d "X:\sources\setup.exe" /f</Path>
                                </RunSynchronousCommand>
                        </RunSynchronous>
                </component>
        </settings>

If you're not using an answer file, you'll need to integrate the same reg value into your 24H2 boot.wim.

Code:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup]
"CmdLine"="X:\\sources\\setup.exe"

hsehestedt · Jul 18, 2024

spapakons said:
I would avoid injecting updates just in case the Setup is affected like you said.

So, let's put aside 24H2 for one brief moment. In editions prior to 24H2, Microsoft posts "Setup Dynamic Updates" when needed. So, I make sure to include that when updating a Windows image. Put another way, it doesn't matter if setup is affected because the updates for setup are included in my image updates.

hsehestedt · Jul 18, 2024

garlin said:
After playing around, the workaround was rather simple.

I can't wait to try this in the morning to see if this also works with media that I patch.

As always, extremely grateful for the info.

By any chance, do you mind sharing where all your knowledge on this comes from? I'm always impressed by all the info you have

.

Are there any online resources that you find especially helpful? I know just enough to be dangerous, but there are still a lot of gaps in my knowledge.

garlin · Jul 18, 2024

hsehestedt said:
By any chance, do you mind sharing where all your knowledge on this comes from? I'm always impressed by all the info you have .

Are there any online resources that you find especially helpful? I know just enough to be dangerous, but there are still a lot of gaps in my knowledge.

Here's a short list of my favorite technical resources. Most of them are fairly advanced, but it's like Zen -- you can absorb background details by osmosis.

Out of Office Hours
Windows PE startup sequence explained
SetupComplete.cmd & Related Registry Values
Back to Basics – Driver Installation Order in WinPE Matters

Eventually one day, something they wrote finally makes sense for a problem you're looking at. Folks who work on MDT/OSD projects, even though it's a different deployment technology, often have a great deal of technical insight into the Windows install workflow.

hsehestedt · Jul 18, 2024

garlin said:
Here's a short list of my favorite technical resources.

Garlin, thank you so much this. I really do appreciate it.

aubergine · Jul 19, 2024

spapakons said:
The whole point of creating a hybrid USB is because the 24H2 bootloader is UEFI only, it doesn't boot in Legacy BIOS mode.

I just recently installed Windows 11 24H2 on an MBR disk (VMware Workstation 17 Player). A clean installation is possible on an MBR disk if you skip the system requirements check, e.g. with a Rufus USB stick.

spapakons · Jul 19, 2024

I cannot confirm it as I haven't got my hands on 24H2, I wait for the standard release in October or November 2024. However, I had read in some sites that 24H2 doesn't boot in Legacy BIOS mode. Probably they didn't bypass compatibility check.

garlin · Jul 19, 2024

spapakons said:
I cannot confirm it as I haven't got my hands on 24H2, I wait for the standard release in October or November 2024. However, I had read in some sites that 24H2 doesn't boot in Legacy BIOS mode. Probably they didn't bypass compatibility check.

Using the bypass, I can install 26100.1150 on a MBR disk.

SM03 · Jul 30, 2024

garlin said:

After playing around, the workaround was rather simple. Just run the old version, X:\sources\setup.exe

You can insert this XML block into your answer file:

Code:

        <settings pass="windowsPE">
                <component name="Microsoft-Windows-Setup" processorArchitecture="amd64" publicKeyToken="31bf3856ad364e35" language="neutral" versionScope="nonSxS" xmlns:wcm="http://schemas.microsoft.com/WMIConfig/2002/State" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
                        <RunSynchronous>
                                <RunSynchronousCommand wcm:action="add">
                                        <Description>Switch to legacy Setup</Description>
                                        <Order>1</Order>
                                        <Path>reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup" /v CmdLine /t REG_SZ /d "X:\sources\setup.exe" /f</Path>
                                </RunSynchronousCommand>
                        </RunSynchronous>
                </component>
        </settings>

If you're not using an answer file, you'll need to integrate the same reg value into your 24H2 boot.wim.

Code:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup]
"CmdLine"="X:\\sources\\setup.exe"

View attachment 101612

@garlin
Is this XML for the autounattend.xml?

Any specific area to put this? Or just simply put this anywhere i.e. at the end of the file?

garlin · Jul 30, 2024

I won't take the time to explain how an Unattended XML layout works, but here's the clear instructions:

1. If you have an existing "windowsPE / Microsoft-Windows-Setup" section, then only insert the block of lines for <RunSychronous>.

Check that the <Order> doesn't overlap any other RunSynchronousCommand.

2. If you don't have a "windowsPE" section, then insert the entire block anywhere. Including the end of the file.

3. If you don't have any answer file, this is the bare minimum file:

Code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<unattend xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:unattend">
        <settings pass="windowsPE">
                <component name="Microsoft-Windows-Setup" processorArchitecture="amd64" publicKeyToken="31bf3856ad364e35" language="neutral" versionScope="nonSxS" xmlns:wcm="http://schemas.microsoft.com/WMIConfig/2002/State" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
                        <RunSynchronous>
                                <RunSynchronousCommand wcm:action="add">
                                        <Description>Switch to legacy Setup</Description>
                                        <Order>1</Order>
                                        <Path>reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup" /v CmdLine /t REG_SZ /d "X:\sources\setup.exe" /f</Path>
                                </RunSynchronousCommand>
                        </RunSynchronous>
                        <UserData>
                                <ProductKey>
                                        <Key></Key>
                                </ProductKey>
                        </UserData>
                </component>
        </settings>
</unattend>

4. If you have NTLite (which you do), just import the reg file into boot.wim. Then it's always there, no matter what's inside the autounattend.xml.

SM03 · Jul 31, 2024

garlin said:
I won't take the time to explain how an Unattended XML layout works, but here's the clear instructions:

1. If you have an existing "windowsPE / Microsoft-Windows-Setup" section, then only insert the block of lines for <RunSychronous>.

Check that the <Order> doesn't overlap any other RunSynchronousCommand.

2. If you don't have a "windowsPE" section, then insert the entire block anywhere. Including the end of the file.

3. If you don't have any answer file, this is the bare minimum file:

Code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <unattend xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:unattend"> <settings pass="windowsPE"> <component name="Microsoft-Windows-Setup" processorArchitecture="amd64" publicKeyToken="31bf3856ad364e35" language="neutral" versionScope="nonSxS" xmlns:wcm="http://schemas.microsoft.com/WMIConfig/2002/State" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"> <RunSynchronous> <RunSynchronousCommand wcm:action="add"> <Description>Switch to legacy Setup</Description> <Order>1</Order> <Path>reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup" /v CmdLine /t REG_SZ /d "X:\sources\setup.exe" /f</Path> </RunSynchronousCommand> </RunSynchronous> <UserData> <ProductKey> <Key></Key> </ProductKey> </UserData> </component> </settings> </unattend>

4. If you have NTLite (which you do), just import the reg file into boot.wim. Then it's always there, no matter what's inside the autounattend.xml.

I use NTLite & you know that very well.

I initially thought to edit the autounattend.xml created/generated by the NTLite unattended section, to add this code you shared. That's why asked, where to put those lines exactly.

Now, as you're suggesting just import the REG to boot.wim, which one precisely?
1. Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
or
2. Microsoft Windows Setup (x64)?
or in both?

& do I need to add the REG in the NTLite/Registry section first, then add the from the 'reapply tasks across editions', like this?

Or is there any other way to add the REG directly/separately only in to (any of) the boot.wim (1 or 2 or both)?

garlin · Jul 31, 2024

Windows PE and Windows Setup are basically the same image, except only one of them has Setup files.
ISO/USB boot only picks the image marked with Flag = 2.

WinPE is provided for IT & system modders who write their own custom deployment tools. And is the basis for Recovery tools like WinXPE. While you can apply changes to either image, Setup is the only one that matters.

For NTLite, you only need to check boot.wim (2) from "Reapply tasks across editions". Another way to perform this, is load one of the images from boot.wim directly, and add the Registry file. "Reapply tasks across editions" is a time saver so you don't need to do this separate step every time you work on a Windows image.

Solved W11 24h2 and old installation setup

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