What is a local account??? and what is it good for????

Breathe.
Take slow and controlled breaths, close your eyes, focus on your breathing. Open your eyes, compose yourself.

Back in the days of windows 95, 98, 2000, XP,etc....when you installed the operating system an account was created on that system. That's a local user account. A lot of people like to use their computer that way.

At some point, when people started using multiple devices and the cloud was taking off, Microsoft like other companies allowed people to create a Microsoft account. This differs from a local account because it's not just on your computer, but it exists within Microsoft itself. A beauty of a Microsoft account is that you could log into a desktop and a laptop with the same username and password and you would have a lot of your data from your profile available to you on both computers and with storage like OneDrive, you could easily access your files from either system.

A lot of techies don't trust MS, or the cloud, so they prefer to keep their account as a local account. Nothing wrong with that...in fact its what I do. I log into my desktop as my standard local user account, but have some things like the MS store snd OneDrive running tied to my Microsoft account. I only have the one local profile on my system, so everything is under my own account. But I get the benefits of my MS account in a method of my choosing.

Regarding image backups, those are point in time copies of your machine exactly the way it was. It's not intended to be a menu you can pick from when you restore it. You cannot say, give me the OS, these 3 apps, this one game and my data. That's not the way an image works. You go back to the way your computer was at a specific moment in time.

When I install my os, I will patch it and take a plain vanilla image. If I choose to use this image, it saves me from loading the OS, finding and installing all drivers and running Windows updates. I keep my data on a shared drive at home, or in the cloud under OmeDrive. Every so often, I take another image of my machine. This way it captures my installed apps, configurations, customizations, game installs, etc. So, let's say I take an image Monday and on Tuesday my hard drive dies. I order a new drive, put it into the machine, restore my image from Monday and I am right back to exactly where I was.

I hopefully answered your questions about what a local account is. You seem to have a lot of other concerns, but honestly I'm having trouble comprehending what your complaints are and what you expect members of this forum to provide to you.

jro11 said:

When I signed up for MS365 and found out the software could be applied to multiple devices and MS was providing me with a substantial amount of cloud storage I was absolutely thrilled. I immediately applied it to my family's 4 computer systems. Little did I know I was about to have all four systems devastated..................

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Something I've wondered about as I've read this whole thread, so I'm going to approach it from the most basic starting point I can. Here goes:

I have heard you talk about backups and images several times, so I will break a rule of mine, and I will assume something. I'm going to assume that you own Backup software of some kind, and that you know the basic way of using it, and you've had experience using it in the past. That is where I am starting from. Before you started your journey with MS365, I would think you would have made a complete system backup of your computer, while it was still running and operating just the way you liked it, and it had all that data and all those programs that you have built up over the years that are extremely valuable to you.

Then, after making that system backup that would be of great importance to you, at that point is when you "applied MS365" to your system. Then came the devastation you encountered, and now, here we are.

My very simple, very basic question is this.... Why don't you use the backup image of your system that you made just prior to starting all the MS365 stuff? That would put your computer back to the point when you were happy, you had all your programs, the computer started and shut down, in short, you had it all set up the way you liked, with the exception of MS365. (I realize you are talking about 4 computers in total here, so if you must, multiply by 4. However the question remains the same)

Is there a very basic, very simple answer to that question that I could understand???

@pparks1

Excellent post. (#22)
Obviously, I "couldn't" say it better myself.

@jro11 I suggest that you work with Microsoft defaults first (Windows installation defaults, Microsoft Account defaults, folder structure defaults, etc) before you tie yourself in knots with preconceived personalizations that don't work.

Microsoft defaults aren't that bad, they work for the vast majority of users. Only if something specific really does not work for you, then you personalize that specific item.

Good luck!

jro11 said:

Minor detail. If I do a full backup of a basic Win11 clean install:
1) I'm backing up nothing.
2) I've already lost everything.
In other words, I've simply driven myself crazy.

So everyone admits
- this is not a situation in which an Image is worth anything?
- my current situation might be one in which a backup is questionable because there's no telling what the backup will relate to--the Microsoft profile or the local profile?
- The backup will take days and will probably not put anything back where it was before (because of the 2-profile situation)

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I think you over thinking this. This is what I do when I do a clean install or I buy a new computer. I make an image of the OS drive before I add anything. Then I start adding my programs and when finished and I know everything is running as it should I'll make another image. After that I start making the changes I want. If I mess up I have two images I can use to start over, The clean install and the clean install with only my programs added.

jro11 said:

When I signed up for MS365 and found out the software could be applied to multiple devices and MS was providing me with a substantial amount of cloud storage I was absolutely thrilled. I immediately applied it to my family's 4 computer systems.

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Are you having problems with syncing because all of the computers are on the same MS account? If so, It is possible to share your MS 365 Subscription with others and they can use their own MS account. You just need to choose the person or persons you want to share with, then send them the link. Then they can install MS 365 and use their own MS account when setting it up.

jro11 said:

Others repeatedly urged me to establish a local account alongside of the Microsoft account.

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You chose wrong people to listen to, just like you had a bad luck with the technician guy.
People, who use mandatory Google/Apple accounts are upset that they should use MS account.

MS no longer allows to create a local account for many reasons, but there are people, who want it despite of it. Is it possible to use a local account, yes, but it is not recommended. In that case you either use a local account or MSA, but not both or problems will arise.

Currently you have only 2 choices, switch back to MSA and get used to it or reinstall with local accounts only.

jro11 said:

What does this have to do with anything.

Others repeatedly urged me to establish a local account alongside of the Microsoft account. Now the whole concept of a "local account" seems to be forgotten (despite the concept having been brought up in the titles of countless threads (e.g., New W11 setup as local account, install windows 11 with a local account instead of a microsoft account, etc...
Was all the "help" I thought I got just a big joke?

Why can't someone answer a simple question like what good is an image of a clean install (beside an image of a clean install)

My wife can't shut down her computer, all my computers are

and all I get is hammers AND YOU'RE insulted ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS!

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It takes time to do a clean install and set it up as you like.

An image restore only takes a few minutes.

However, if you make an image backup after you have installed everything, that is where the big time saving occurs.

The point about image backups is they enable you to snapshot the pc at different points in time.

Typically people make a backup (say) weekly. Then if drive fails. (say), you can revert to very recent state in minutes as opposed to many hours or days even.

jro11 said:

If I IMAGE EACH OF MY COMPUTERS, CAN I SELECTIVELY RESTORE THE MATERIAL I NEED--NAMELY, THE PROGRAMS, AND THE PROGRAM SUPPORT APPLICATIONS, AND THE MULTITUDE OF BOOKMARKS, DOCUMENTS I CREATED TO, FOR EXAMPLE, SUPPORT A DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION, IN THEIR PROPER LOCATION, SO THAT WHAT I END UP WITH AFTER (WHAT YOU SUGGEST) I SIMPLY REFORMAT THE DAMN DRIVE IS USABLE. (I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT RESTOCKING A BOOKSHELF)

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Backup: My belief was that a Backup was an ordered way of copying and pasting files (usually through a dedicated program) such that those files could individually be recalled and restored. Also a file that could not restore entire systems.
Image: My belief was that an Image was a backup in which the whole backup/the whole image was only available for restoration. (Only through reading and rereading the Macrium guide was I convinced that files could individually be accessed, recalled, and restored.
Clone: My belief was that a Clone was something akin to a sector-by-sector backup, different from an image in that it really had nothing to do with backing up files, it was just a byte backup and, for that reason smaller, and faster to execute and restore than an Image and
Yes, I know, and repeatedly read, that I was told an Image was a backup. But I understood backup to mean a lower-case backup (a file copy/paste is a (lower case) backup) and not the way I understood a Backup. I was wrong.

antspants said:

Your shouting at people like this is beyond rude.

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I was asking questions and trying to get serious answers to those questions because what is happening is so crucial to me having any information whatsoever. While totally freaking out here, the answers I was getting seemed totally nonsensical, catching hammers et al...
Yes it was a shout but desperation sometimes...eventually drives one to do desperate measures. I'm sorry you felt insulted.
I've gotten further but am certainly not out of freaking out mode and because of that am not making entirely rational decisions.

The current situation
I have purchased 3/2 TB drives (not thumb drives/not SSD) and am applying each to an individual computer (I might need to buy one more for Diane's old machine.)

I have 4 computers.
Each is currently a dual boot—through a LocalUserProfile and a MicrosoftProfile
Each has a C-drive and another (internal) drive.
The only drives I have System-indexed are their the C-Drives. I placed the index on an External drive attached to each computer.

1. Win10Computer (computer room – my mainstay for many years – the computer I’m on now) Macrium C-Drive Image on external harddrive. This computer’s C-drive has been imaged

1. LivingRoomW11Computer (living room – the computer slated to take the place of Win10Computer and to teach me Win11. Macrium C-Drive Image on external harddrive – Elements (H).

Currently I cannot send emails or print documents from any of the UserProfiles. I can only do so through the MicrosoftProfile.

1. DianeW11Computer (upstairs. Diane’s (very shaky) mainstay computer)

1. DAWW10Computer (Computer room, holding my most important music work and expensive programs.)

A copy of the software program Everything, the only way I know to quickly and efficiently explore and access Files/Folders.

My Understanding/Hope/Plan

1. My understanding is that all the programs installed on each computer are still there and is available to both profiles.
2. Each image has dozens of files folders generated by OneDrive I hope to restore none of these items (it is not obvious which have been generated by OneDrive)
3. When I log in through the UserProfile Microsoft attempts to reinstall Windows. I wasn’t expecting this (especially since it includes OneDrive) and so far have delayed the Windows install for 3 days. I don't know what to do about this or what will happen if I allow Microsoft to reinstall Win11 (rejecting OneDrive and MS Office365, which I understand is possible
4. What I thought and still hope was/is that I could restore files from the (external drive’s) image file to the UserProfile and that when that was completed I could remove the MicrosoftProfile completely, leaving me with only the UserProfile a responsive and predictable computer with the kind of annoying vagrancies I have learned to expect from Microsoft (and Google) and PEACE OF MIND.

For my first trick
I thought I would look at my first Index, the one of this System/C-drive
It looks like this:

Macrium tells me to right click on a drive and I should see more.
Right clicking does nothing.

@jro11 Computing as such is much, much bigger than all of your computing efforts, you know. You first need to make computing as is work for you, thereafter you can modify your own little world of computing all you want to make it work even better for you. But it does not work the other way around.

Good luck!

jro11 said:

Macrium tells me to right click on a drive and I should see more.
Right clicking does nothing.

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Click on the box for your C: drive then click on OK. The image will be assigned a drive letter that you can explore in File Explorer.

It might serve you better if you never have anything on your C drive but installed executable program files. ”Everything” else should be saved to an external or second internal etc. There should potentially be nothing to see by viewing your C drive via Macrium
For me, an image is nothing more than a copy of the skeleton (Windows) nothing personal should be on it to have to view in Macrium, unless you’re imaging a drive other than C: using Macrium

Once you’re where you want to be, seek out the tutorial in here to move your user folders to an external drive so the C drive is always as I mentioned above, nothing but the work horse.
I never, ever have a single file I keep outside of installed program files, on my C drive. It is a recepie for disaster. If your C drive fails or gets corrupted, potentially, there go your cherished files.
At worse, a reinstall of Windows would only require you to follow the tutorial again and point Windows at your external user folders.
example; C:/photos - move user folder to D: extra/external drive. Windows will now by default, save your photos to the external user folder “Photos”

This goes for Photos/Documents/Downloads/Music/Videos etc All user folders
You may find life a little easier.

jro11 said:

Each is currently a dual boot—through a LocalUserProfile and a MicrosoftProfile

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I have never heard of this. I don’t understand its purpose.

To search for the tutorials I mention, search in “Tutorials” for “Move or Restore Default Location of “insert folder name here”

pparks1 said:

Regarding image backups, those are point in time copies of your machine exactly the way it was. It's not intended to be a menu you can pick from when you restore it. You cannot say, give me the OS, these 3 apps, this one game and my data. That's not the way an image works. You go back to the way your computer was at a specific moment in time.

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Now I am totally confused. It seems my original conception of Images was correct.

Oblias said:

Is there a very basic, very simple answer to that question that I could understand???

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Yes, I used Backup Maker faithfully and although it would have been more responsible to do it more often, or do differentials or incrementals, when I started dealing with OneDrive the situation became so chaotic that all bets were off, and I stopped executing backups--and backups took H O U R S...

Haydon said:

Microsoft defaults aren't that bad, they work for the vast majority of users.

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I no longer understand what Microsoft defaults are since I never knew that I was installing anything other than what you describe as a "local user" OS install. I just assumed that when I accepted (the inevitable) MS365/OneDrive OS install what I was getting was the OS install I was used to, with the inclusion of a program suite called MSOffice365 and a virus called OneDrive.

Winuser said:

I make an image of the OS drive before I add anything.

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This is very smart. Unfortunately I got into the game of wiping a disk clean and installing a CleanOS too late to do this. (Actually I have done this with an old laptop, installing Win10 onto it--It keeps on complaining about needing me to enter a serial number...(I originally ordered nothing but WinPro Os's) but since the only thing this computer does is run the Internet v e r r y s l o w l y I haven't bothered with wasting a Macrium Image license on it.

Winuser said:

Are you having problems with syncing because all of the computers are on the same MS account? If so, It is possible to share your MS 365 Subscription with others and they can use their own MS account. You just need to choose the person or persons you want to share with, then send them the link. Then they can install MS 365 and use their own MS account when setting it up.

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My understanding is that all the computers are using their own MS account (I remember this because this computer was associated with Diane's DianeEmail@outlook.com account in some way.)
That having been said, I think Syncing is irrelevant to the conversation (unless you mean syncing in the lower case way--i.e., I have no interest in what Microsoft/Google want everyone to do--have everything synced so that everyone gets every one of their emails in every location/computer and has every bookmark on every one of their browsers.
(I'm available to explain why, but I've done that and it seems irrelevant to this conversation.

TairikuOkami said:

MS no longer allows to create a local account for many reasons, but there are people, who want it despite of it. Is it possible to use a local account, yes, but it is not recommended. In that case you either use a local account or MSA, but not both or problems will arise.

Currently you have only 2 choices, switch back to MSA and get used to it or reinstall with local accounts only.

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So I'm totally screwed, everything I've done in Macrium is irrelevant and I should just accept losing all the data/programs I've spent years accumulating?

And I assume that if I buy, rather than build, a computer that the first thing I would have to do is wipe it clean and install from user...scratch??

cereberus said:

However, if you make an image backup after you have installed everything, that is where the big time saving occurs.

The point about image backups is they enable you to snapshot the pc at different points in time.

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Understood (You have a way of very forcefully (appropriate to your name) making your point Cerebus). and exactly what I assumed until I was convinced differently, repeatedly, on this forum.

So, right now,
1_) I don't understand why people told me to Image my computer! What good would it have done?? I could spend weeks trying to clean everything up and then (celebrate by) restore the index (what other reason does one have an Index, or Clone, for that matter except to restore it). I'm serious, is this all a big joke?
2) Now I'm also being told that the other major move people were encouraging me to make, to establish a UserProfile (thus turning the computer into a dual boot) is also a mistake and I was wrong in having followed that advice.

I have no idea how to proceed from here and am wondering if this is all real.

pparks1 said:

At some point, when people started using multiple devices and the cloud was taking off, Microsoft like other companies allowed people to create a Microsoft account.

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By the way, content notwithstanding, this is one of the best and clearest explanations--I've read on this forum.

Speaking for myself, your post are getting more and more confusing. At first I thought I could help but now I have to admit that I have no idea of what your trying to do. I'm going to the sideline and let others try to help you.

jro11 said:

So, right now,
1_) I don't understand why people told me to Image my computer! What good would it have done?? I could spend weeks trying to clean everything up and then (celebrate by) restore the index (what other reason does one have an Index, or Clone, for that matter except to restore it). I'm serious, is this all a big joke?
2) Now I'm also being told that the other major move people were encouraging me to make, to establish a UserProfile (thus turning the computer into a dual boot) is also a mistake and I was wrong in having followed that advice.

Click to expand...

Like Winuser, I'm casually observing from the sidelines, but...

#1 was answered in post #2 of this thread, which links to another post, where it was explained why that was a good idea.
#2 : You're using the terms "user profile" and "dual boot" incorrectly. That being said, it's not a mistake to use a local account or a Microsoft account, depending on how you want your PC to work. It is a mistake, if you're unfamiliar with what you're doing, to use both and have to switch back and forth. There's nothing wrong with being unfamiliar, by the way; we were all there once.

Hi,
Yeah I tend to lean towards, if you don't know what a local user account is
Just make a ms email account and use it for your pc login because life is way to short for this back and forth over this simple concept.

antspants said:

It might serve you better if you never have anything on your C drive but installed executable program files. ”Everything” else should be saved to an external or second internal etc. There should potentially be nothing to see by viewing your C drive via Macrium

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This is exactly the way I work. I used to work that way all the time (and I still have the external drive I saved everything onto) until I realized that since:
- Downloads were always automatically assigned to the Downloads folder (ON THE C DRIVE) and
- Documents were always automatically assigned to the Documents folder (ON THE C DRIVE) and
- Pictures were always automatically assigned to the Pictures folder (ON THE C DRIVE) and
- Videos were always automatically assigned to the Video folder (ON THE C DRIVE) and
- Desktop items were always automatically assigned to the Desktop (folder) (ON THE C DRIVE, I assume)

In order to move this information from the hard drive onto the new Win11 (that I'm on now) I copied that data onto the current machine and....................................................of course, OneDrive started its nefarious

In other words, everything one did on the computer, and every SaveAs one performed, was constantly being redirected to those locations, AND this was before OneDrive got its claws into it that I finally gave in, since assigning them away from these locations (they always started out there before I could get to them).

I've spoken about the people who:
a) Recommended an index as a solution (not specifying the index had to be of a cleanly formatted drive to be minimally useful--and this is not completely true because applications all have to go onto the C-drive.
b) Recommended establishing a local profile as a path to a solution (though now, given neither I nor anyone seems willing to fess up to the fact this was ever suggested)

So is what I should now do is?
1) Delete the indexes. They're useless since they contain linked Data (i.e., Folders and Shortcuts) and all they should contain is an empty formatted C-drive (possibly, but I'm not sure because no one has, to date mentioned anything about actual applications)
2) Empty the external disk I bought for each computer (which is larger than the C drive) because (as I had argued repeatedly the Index containing garbage was useless).
4) Remove everything from the C-Drive except applications. (which in principle seems simple enough). On my original Win10 mainstay computer I have valuable apps I would like to keep--Like Acrobat.
5) I have no idea what to do about the Local User accounts/profiles my consultant established since now the opinion on this forum is that they are a vestige of another era.

And, I've been getting a lot of criticism from so many people who are so happy with doing it Microsoft's way...
Are these people who all don't bother to index their drives because the drives get so corrupted with files, or index their drives because the drives get so corrupted with files? Or, and this never occurred to me before, are they like when we used land lines and an answering machine people who use their computers/telephones, and daily or weekly simply erase the data/messages on their computer/answering machine?