Solved Your opinion on the 'Can of Worms' that is TPM

jimbo45 · Jan 8, 2022

Hi there

seem to be 2 unrelated issues in this post -- TPM stuff and pin nrs / passwords.
As far as TPM's are concerned I'd wait until there's more clarity on the issue -- there's the TPM Diagnostics you can install from the "Install optional features" from Windows if you want to play around with it.

Then to use it simply run TpmDiagnostics.exe

As for passwords etc -- OLD technology still IMO works best -- simply in an old fashioned PAPER notebook (yes they still exist) write them down. If they aren't on the computer they can't be hacked and if the notebook gets stolen by due to house burglary etc then you;ve got much bigger problems to deal with than anything to do with computers !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Lesoudeur · Jan 8, 2022

tinmar49 said:
I have a different pin for each pc, and more than once there has been a glitch (changing processor and having to reset fTPM), which resulted in my having to log onto my Microsoft sccount to reset the pin. I reset using the same pin that that particular pc had to start with. I always use pins with both letters and numbers, but every time, I start off forgetting to check the box allowing that.

Yes I had to do that when I changed the motherboard. I have dropped using letters within a PIN because I also kept forgetting to tick the additional box .

Senecio · Jan 8, 2022

jimbo45 said:
Hi there

seem to be 2 unrelated issues in this post -- TPM stuff and pin nrs / passwords.
As far as TPM's are concerned I'd wait until there's more clarity on the issue -- there's the TPM Diagnostics you can install from the "Install optional features" from Windows if you want to play around with it.

Then to use it simply run TpmDiagnostics.exe

As for passwords etc -- OLD technology still IMO works best -- simply in an old fashioned PAPER notebook (yes they still exist) write them down. If they aren't on the computer they can't be hacked and if the notebook gets stolen by due to house burglary etc then you;ve got much bigger problems to deal with than anything to do with computers !!!

Cheers
jimbo

I'm interested in that 'etc' - I presume that includes fire, forgetting where you put the notebook, sneak peeps by your house cleaner (If you have one), forgetting to put a password into the notebook at the time? Also, I usually take a laptop or at least a phone on holiday with me. Do I take the notebook with me, so that I can log on to my bank etc?
My own view is that passwords are, and always have been a recipe for disaster. Incidentally, the forgetting thing is becoming a bigger issue for me as I get older.

humbird · Jan 8, 2022

If anyone would like more information on TPM and what it does here is a microsot doc on it.

Trusted Platform Module Technology Overview

Learn about the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) and how Windows uses it for access control and authentication.

docs.microsoft.com

humbird · Jan 8, 2022

An opinion on TPM
Beware of TPM, the Windows 11 requirement: you can lose your data

This opinion is why you should do regular backups of your system.

jimbo45 · Jan 9, 2022

humbird said:
An opinion on TPM
Beware of TPM, the Windows 11 requirement: you can lose your data

This opinion is why you should do regular backups of your system.

You can lose data in so many ways far easier than that one so it makes sense to ALWAYS regularly backup your data (and test from time to time that you can recover it -- from Bare Metal if need be).

Cheers
jimbo

hsehestedt · Jan 9, 2022

humbird said:
An opinion on TPM
Beware of TPM, the Windows 11 requirement: you can lose your data

This opinion is why you should do regular backups of your system.

Aplologies in advance. The tone of my post is going to come off a bit harsh, that is 100% intended

That article is pure nonsense. I could pull the TPM module out of my system and pulverize it, or take the hard drive out and stick it in another system with no TPM at all and I would still have flawless access to all my data. All I need is the Recovery Key for that drive.

I don't understand why people like the author of that article must try to instill FUD in people without even taking a few seconds (literally) to research the topic first. I guess that the author never ever BitLocker encrypted a drive. When doing so, the wizard forces you to save a copy of the Recovery Key. If he had ever tried it for himself, you would think that he would have realized that the Recovery Key serves a purpose beyond providing the user with an impressively long series of numbers to look at.

Another thing that the author makes absolutely zero mention of is backups. Even if his assertion that losing the TPM would render you unable to access your data was correct (it is not), then anyone even mildly interested in protecting their data would still have backups to fall back on. He doesn't even suggest that as a factor to take into consideration.

Bottom line: Never ever trust the opinion of one or two individuals posting tech info on the Internet. There are a lot of people who post purely uneducated, unresearched nonsense simply for the purpose of getting clicks. In fact, if this is a topic that interests you, please don't trust a word that I am saying here. Please research the issues at hand and maybe do a little testing. VMs are super helpful for testing issues like this.

It's best of you can find corroborating references especially from trusted sources, for example, Microsoft themselves.

jimbo45 · Jan 9, 2022

hsehestedt said:
Aplologies in advance. The tone of my post is going to come off a bit harsh, that is 100% intended :)

That article is pure nonsense. I could pull the TPM module out of my system and pulverize it, or take the hard drive out and stick it in another system with no TPM at all and I would still have flawless access to all my data. All I need is the Recovery Key for that drive.

I don't understand why people like the author of that article must try to instill FUD in people without even taking a few seconds (literally) to research the topic first. I guess that the author never ever BitLocker encrypted a drive. When doing so, the wizard forces you to save a copy of the Recovery Key. If he had ever tried it for himself, you would think that he would have realized that the Recovery Key serves a purpose beyond providing the user with an impressively long series of numbers to look at.

Another thing that the author makes absolutely zero mention of is backups. Even if his assertion that losing the TPM would render you unable to access your data was correct (it is not), then anyone even mildly interested in protecting their data would still have backups to fall back on. He doesn't even suggest that as a factor to take into consideration.

Bottom line: Never ever trust the opinion of one or two individuals posting tech info on the Internet. There are a lot of people who post purely uneducated, unresearched nonsense simply for the purpose of getting clicks. In fact, if this is a topic that interests you, please don't trust a word that I am saying here. Please research the issues at hand and maybe do a little testing. VMs are super helpful for testing issues like this.

It's best of you can find corroborating references especially from trusted sources, for example, Microsoft themselves.

Hi there
I believe NO ONE should be allowed anywhere near a computer or be able to write anything about them until they have passed a competancy test in understanding what backups are and being able to make one on a "test machine". Vehicle, Train, bus and other Drivers and Pilots need to pass tests showing competancy in those things -- why not prospective computer users as well !!!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

humbird · Jan 9, 2022

I do agree . I wanted to show the beliefs out there. I am into security. I found another article I liked very much from a Healthcare IT site.
Windows 11 and Security – Why 8th Generation Core Processors and AMD Zen 2 Processors are Required, and What CIOs Can Do to Mitigate the Issue | Healthcare IT Today

Dru2 · Jan 9, 2022

hsehestedt said:
It's best of you can find corroborating references especially from trusted sources, for example, Microsoft themselves.

Agree. There is way too much misunderstanding, misinformation, and fear mongering going on where TPM (and BitLocker) is concerned.

TPM (1.2) has been around since about 2011, but many are hearing about it now because of Windows 11 and Microsoft's push to expand its role. This short overview gives a brief explanation of what TPM Is and where it's going - Trusted Platform Module (TPM) - Microsoft Research

I for one look forward to it.

barman58 · Jan 9, 2022

Two rules for úse of TPM ...

You do not require an Active TPM to use Bitlocker
You do not need to run Bitlocker if you have an active TPM

starchase · Jan 23, 2022

Seems like this thread has been hashed to finality. I just have one question for my own information and education concerningnthese discussions concerning TPM and Pin @s. I've read all 4 pages here and while these are things I'm not bright enough to understand, I come away thinking that in order to have a PIN # to log into Windows one must have TPM functioning. (Unless I'm misreading these discussions.) But my 2 old machines don't have a TPM chip nor any software TPM. Both are older Win 10 machines, no TPM, and Home versions, so no Bitlocker. But both are using PIN #s to login. How is that reconciled with needing TPM?

glasskuter · Jan 23, 2022

@starchase The way I understand it is one can use Windows Hello (ie pin) without a TPM present, but it is handled within software. However, if Windows detects that a TPM is present, the pin is handled by the TPM. It establishes a trusted relationship with the identity provider and the TPM creates an asymmetric key pair that is used for authentication. When you enter your PIN, it unlocks this authentication key within the TPM and uses that key to sign the request that is sent to the authenticating server (Microsoft).

Do I actually understand it all? No. But I know enough that I do not have a lot of faith in it. As I'm sure you could tell by the differing opinions in this thread, I'm not too sure that any layperson fully understands all the smoke and mirrors.

Zardoc · Jan 23, 2022

Now if you add TPM to the mix on a new Dell laptop which a lot of new buyers have no idea what it's all about, windows hello is going to be the least of their problems when the master drive dies.

humbird · Jan 24, 2022

Zardoc said:
Now if you add TPM to the mix on a new Dell laptop which a lot of new buyers have no idea what it's all about, windows hello is going to be the least of their problems when the master drive dies.

I bought my laptop in 2018 with TPM 2.0 and Intel SGX pre-installed. It only had a 128gb m2 drive. After 2 weeks of owning the I cloned the system over to a bigger m2 drive. using the new drives software, (Samsung). After I booted up, I downloaded windows and clean installed. I then reinstalled all of the drivers from the manufacturer's website. I still have the original M2 drive in a box. Everything went just fine. I am unsure though what would happen should a hard drive die but am thinking maybe a clean install on a new drive would work much the same way.

glasskuter · Jan 24, 2022

@humbird I read on a Microsoft site that when one has TPM that the TPM should be cleared BEFORE a clean install. It suggested that the TPM should be cleared from within Windows rather than in the bios whenever possible. If I can find the article again I will post it.

glasskuter · Jan 24, 2022

@humbird I found it. Scroll all the way down to Clear all the keys from the TPM
Troubleshoot the TPM (Windows) - Windows security

humbird · Jan 24, 2022

Yes, I did clear it in windows back in 2018 when I did the clean install. Thanks

Zardoc · Jan 24, 2022

Good for you!!

humbird · Jan 24, 2022

It all took a bit of research so I wouldn't mess things up. :)

Solved Your opinion on the 'Can of Worms' that is TPM

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