Solved I have a question that has been gnawing at me for a while.

Flashorn · Apr 7, 2024

pseymour said:
type REG_DWORD, value 99

Thank you for that. What does that value represent and yes, I don't like receiving updates or any
downloads from other PCs other than the ones I initiate.

pseymour · Apr 7, 2024

The link I posted explains what the values mean.

Flashorn · Apr 7, 2024

pseymour said:
The link I posted explains what the values mean.

Thank you.

pseymour said:
There's probably a good reason you can't disable it in the services

That's the reason I'm after and trying to understand. What would be the reason to have this service on and
what else are they using it for. I'm not paranoid about it, just trying to see what this service does besides what
everyone else think they know what it's for.

pseymour · Apr 7, 2024

Typing this on mobile, so forgive any errors.

In that first link I posted, about how DO checks for authenticity when downloading, it says (emphasis mine):

When a download starts, the Delivery Optimization client attempts to get its content metadata. This content metadata is a hash file containing the SHA-256 block-level hashes of each piece in the file (typically one piece = 1 MB).
The authenticity of the content metadata file itself is verified prior to any content being downloaded using a hash that is obtained via an SSL channel from the Delivery Optimization service. The same channel is used to ensure the content is curated and authorized to use peer-to-peer…

So it seems DO is involved, whether you share content with your LAN, the Internet, or no one.

Flashorn · Apr 7, 2024

pseymour said:
authorized to use peer-to-peer

So, not paranoid but, I was right in questioning this DO service.
As for using the 99 value, I don't have DODownloadMode in the registry.
what I do have is BITS and this is from the last explanation of the value 100
which they say is not in force any more:
"If your device doesn't have internet access, set Download Mode to (99). When you set Bypass (100), the download bypasses Delivery Optimization and uses BITS instead. You don't need to set this option if you're using Configuration Manager."

This is what I find in the registry when following your path:

cereberus · Apr 7, 2024

Delivery Optimisation is a bit of a relic dating back to days when internet speeds were much lower.

My internet speed at least 20x what it was back in day W10 first came out.

Also most broadband deals are unlimited downloads anyway now.

I turned it off years ago as it is pretty useless nowadays.

glasskuter · Apr 7, 2024

Flashorn said:
why can I not download any updates with the service for DO disabled.

The reason: It's one of those dependencies I often relate to when people want to disable services and why disabling some services can sometimes have ill affects because of dependencies between servcies. Leave DO turned off in settings but leave it's service enabled as manual /trigger start and you should be golden. That's the way mine is.

pseymour · Apr 8, 2024

Flashorn said:
So, not paranoid but, I was right in questioning this DO service.

You posted a tiny part of one sentence. I'm not sure what you were getting at. Also not sure why you were "questioning" DO.

Flashorn said:
As for using the 99 value, I don't have DODownloadMode in the registry.
what I do have is BITS and this is from the last explanation of the value 100
which they say is not in force any more:
"If your device doesn't have internet access, set Download Mode to (99). When you set Bypass (100), the download bypasses Delivery Optimization and uses BITS instead. You don't need to set this option if you're using Configuration Manager."

The BITS key in your screenshot is not related to DO, nor does it have anything to do with whether DO uses BITS mode. As I said, and glasskuter said, leave the toggle turned off in Settings and set the service to Manual start. I added the part about the DODownloadMode policy in case you wanted extra assurance that DO wasn't sending or receiving content from strangers on the internet.

pseymour · Apr 8, 2024

cereberus said:
Delivery Optimisation is a bit of a relic dating back to days when internet speeds were much lower.
[snip]
I turned it off years ago as it is pretty useless nowadays.

Maybe, if you only consider home usage. We use it in business environments all the time, to let clients within a network get update content from each other, rather than all reaching back to a central server. We pull the updates once from Microsoft, and our Internet connection is likely faster than any home would get. So in our case, using DO has nothing to do with Internet bandwidth.

bikemanI7 · Apr 8, 2024

Always download Cumulative preview updates,

do my system backups Monday before Patch Tuesday. (Would drive me nuts knowing update is available and not installed)

Delivery optimation set to Computers on local network.

So far since Windows 8 days have never had any issues, and if I happen to at some point, I'd get it fixed....

Flashorn · Apr 8, 2024

glasskuter said:
The reason: It's one of those dependencies I often relate to when people want to disable services and why disabling some services can sometimes have ill affects because of dependencies between servcies. Leave DO turned off in settings but leave it's service enabled as manual /trigger start and you should be golden. That's the way mine is.

Thank you @glasskuter but, that's what I'm now trying to find out, the dependencies for my personal knowledge
and to kill this question of why it's stopping the updates from downloading. I am just working on satisfying my curiosity.
I still have it turned off in registry but, do turn it back on when I download the updates. As far as I can see, it doesn't affect
the workings of my regular use of this notebook like playing games or using a browser so, for the time being, it will remain
off. When I find out which other services depends on this service then I will be able to make a proper decision .

Flashorn · Apr 8, 2024

pseymour said:
You posted a tiny part of one sentence. I'm not sure what you were getting at. Also not sure why you were "questioning" DO.

The BITS key in your screenshot is not related to DO, nor does it have anything to do with whether DO uses BITS mode. As I said, and glasskuter said, leave the toggle turned off in Settings and set the service to Manual start. I added the part about the DODownloadMode policy in case you wanted extra assurance that DO wasn't sending or receiving content from strangers on the internet.

OK so, why can't I see the same entry in reg that you are suggesting I change the value? Did I not follow the right path?
As explained in my post to @glasskuter , the service will remain off until such time as I am ready to download the latest
updates. Thanks for your input as I appreciated your input.

Flashorn · Apr 8, 2024

bikemanI7 said:
(Would drive me nuts knowing update is available and not installed)

Why? It's a PC. Not like it's your last. The old saying is "wait till it breaks then fix it". Not really but, I just rehashed it a bit.
There are plenty of broken PCs with the last updates and especially the preview one. Heck, even @Edwin can't install it
for some reason. I always pause the updates until the end of month just to make sure I hopefully won't get caught. This
is getting ridiculous. We are now all fretting about installing updates for fear those will make us repair or worst re-install.

pseymour · Apr 8, 2024

If you don't have the DeliveryOptimization key, you can just create it. Right-click the Windows key, and select New | Key. Name it DeliveryOptimization.

Flashorn · Apr 8, 2024

pseymour said:
If you don't have the DeliveryOptimization key, you can just create it. Right-click the Windows key, and select New | Key. Name it DeliveryOptimization.

Thank you for that.

cereberus · Apr 8, 2024

pseymour said:
Maybe, if you only consider home usage. We use it in business environments all the time, to let clients within a network get update content from each other, rather than all reaching back to a central server. We pull the updates once from Microsoft, and our Internet connection is likely faster than any home would get. So in our case, using DO has nothing to do with Internet bandwidth.

Yeah I see that.

But (just asking here purely out of curiosity) was DO ever really designed for major corporations?

It was definitely introduced to help users update multiple pcs without incurring the same download cost multiple times back in days when many people had limited downloads or paid per GB each month (pretty much a thing of the past at least in developed countries).

Even then, the general advice was to limit DO to LANs rather than getting updates over internet from unknown sources for security.

I am not sure it was ever intended to be a major update deployment tool but I could be wrong.

pseymour · Apr 8, 2024

Yes.... consider a company with a small branch office, connected back to the main office for communications, but no server infrastructure at the branch office. The clients at the branch office are configured to retrieve update content from each other via DO. On Patch Tuesday (or Patch Wednesday Morning

), the first client at the branch office grabs the update from headquarters, and the rest of the clients get the update content from that client.

Sure, you could avoid needing this with a server at the remote site, or a faster pipe in between, but that's not always feasible.

cereberus · Apr 8, 2024

pseymour said:
Yes.... consider a company with a small branch office, connected back to the main office for communications, but no server infrastructure at the branch office. The clients at the branch office are configured to retrieve update content from each other via DO. On Patch Tuesday (or Patch Wednesday Morning ), the first client at the branch office grabs the update from headquarters, and the rest of the clients get the update content from that client.

Sure, you could avoid needing this with a server at the remote site, or a faster pipe in between, but that's not always feasible.

Yeah sure but I am sure DO was never really designed specifically for your use but it is great you can benefit from it.

I am pretty sure most major corporations would not use it though. All the major (mostly oil) companies in UK I have worked for would never issue a Patch XXXday update until it has been through thorough IT testing.

I hybrid work mostly from home and my major corporation domain based laptop is updated from a central server (actually in India) via their update deployment mechanism.

They do not care if it takes 10 minutes or hours to get updates. In the end, you really need minimum internet speeds around 20 mbs or so (virtually all persons in UK except remote areas) to work from home.

As a check, l looked tonight in settings on my company domain pc, and DO is disabled and greyed out.

So I guess it all comes down to network size and IT policy whether DO is usefull.

pseymour · Apr 8, 2024

Okay, we're getting off into the weeds about what DO is used for. We've already cleared up that the service is necessary for Windows Update in some fashion, which OP already sort of surmised before posting I reckon.

In my example, I laid out a hypothetical of how DO would be used to download updates. When they actually get downloaded relative to Patch Tuesday isn't actually relevant to how DO works.

I've laid out one hypothetical example of where it could be used, and mentioned that we use it all the time. Your counter argument is a work-from-home example, where DO wouldn't really be beneficial.

I'm not sure how you know what DO was designed for, but you're the expert apparently.

kelper · Apr 9, 2024

@Flashorn

"People no longer believe in optimizers and cleaners"

Many of us actually do use Ccleaner, Wise Disk Cleaner and the like. I use MS Disk Cleanup too. None does it all but together I cover all bases.