Install hidden hardware inside mouse

Into_Oblivion1 · 2025-04-07T07:42:42-0400

Dear all

In regard of:
Logitech M500s Advanced Corded Mouse

1.
Can a hacker install cellular, Bluetooth, radio or other type of signal hardware inside the mouse.
So the hacker can use the chosen kind of signal to steal data from the system, that the mouse is connected to.
While also the connection is hidden from Windows and the victim.

2.
What kind of skill level would this require?
NSA-level?
Only the manufacturer could do it?

3.
Are there other theoretical ways / methods, that a hacker can exploit the mouse?

I am not seeking illicit advice.
Through good argumentation, I just want to make sure, that it can't happen to me / highly unlikely.

Thank you

spapakons · 2025-04-07T07:57:35-0400

You mean the mouse firmware, the piece of embedded code that makes the mouse work. If you download any new version directly from the manufacturer, you should be safe that it is clean and doesn't contain malware. However, if your mouse works perfectly, I see no reason to install new firmware. The same is true for the manufacturer utility with which you can program (customize) the mouse keys. If your current version works fine, I see no reason to install a newer version. In theory, yes, a hacker could include malware to the mouse firmware or utility and upload in a website he controls for "convenience". I rather spend a little time locating the firmware or utility at manufacturer's official website. I avoid downloading from third-party sites, even well known ones like CNET, Major Geeks, or File Horse. Regarding pairing your mouse with his own laptop and injecting malware, it is not possible. Most Bluetooth devices cannot pair with another device while connected, you have to manually press a special button on the mouse to set it in discovery mode. Assuming he paired, how he would control his computer to inject malicious code? You would move the mouse around making it too hard to do.

Berton · 2025-04-07T10:25:46-0400

As for hidden things, have seen some discussion on the 'net about the possibility of USB cables hiding something that allows spying on what people do, haven't determined how true that is.

spapakons · 2025-04-07T10:38:01-0400

Berton said:
As for hidden things, have seen some discussion on the 'net about the possibility of USB cables hiding something that allows spying on what people do, haven't determined how true that is.

A simple cable, no it can't, but what if there is a tiny circuit somewhere inside the plastic insulation? That's why you should avoid very cheap unknown brands. I don't say to always buy expensive brands, no. Just buy a brand you can trust. Read some reviews on the internet. Here in Greece for example, there are some price comparison sites that list all the shops that sell a specific product, but also have user comments for it. If there is something suspicious they will report it.

telepro21 · 2025-04-07T10:45:14-0400

I remember reading a story a while back about USB cables with additional "items" installed for potentially nefarious purposes.
Here is a link: USB-C cable CT scan reveals sinister active electronics — O.MG pen testing cable contains a hidden antenna and another die embedded in the microcontroller

spapakons · 2025-04-07T10:50:01-0400

So avoid super cheap suspicious cables. A price 2-5€ is OK, depending on brand, less than 2€ is a little suspicious, less than 1€ is a lot suspicious. Over 5€ for 2m is a waste of money, you wont' see any higher transfer speeds than the cheaper brands, don't believe the BS the seller might tell you. The same is true for standard priced HDMI cables vs expensive brands. As long as they are HDMI 2.0 you should see 4K 60Hz, you don't have to buy a cable costing twice that.

glasskuter · 2025-04-07T11:58:49-0400

Into_Oblivion1 said:
Are there other theoretical ways / methods, that a hacker can exploit the mouse?

I am not seeking illicit advice.
Through good argumentation, I just want to make sure, that it can't happen to me / highly unlikely.

Your concerns are a stretch. Can it be done? Sure. A hacker, (if he's good enough) can exploit any form of receiver, firmware, or vulnerable software or driver. As sophisticated as malware is these days, the only way one can be 100% sure he will never be exploited is to unplug his computer and use it as an expensive paperweight. IMO, you are much more likely to be attacked by a drive-by hacker who gets into your network than you are with a corded mouse.

spapakons · 2025-04-07T12:35:27-0400

He was talking about a wireless Bluetooth mouse, but still I believe it so unlikely.

Aramil · 2025-04-07T13:49:40-0400

Logitech M500s Advanced Corded Mouse, Yes , Its a USB Device, so Code execution off a piggy backed chip/board inside the mouse would be the simplest way, and maybe with a little help from your mouse software "checking for updates" it would be possible to do so.

You can technically make almost any USB device deliver a package, as long as you know the target system/OS, that's how less than legitimate USB sticks/cables allow for "package delivery" to otherwise untouchable systems, everyone knows not to plug in random USB drives.

The question becomes, why? it would have to be very targeted, you would not want to deal with selling 10,000 cheap mice and the inevitable data overload you would have because of it, not alone a branded popular mouse.

As mentioned above, more likely to be caught with a less than secure Wi-Fi network, or dodgy Link, than an actual hardware based attack.

glasskuter · 2025-04-07T13:51:14-0400

spapakons said:
He was talking about a wireless Bluetooth mouse

Sorry, I thought he said

Into_Oblivion1 said:
In regard of:
Logitech M500s Advanced Corded Mouse

garlin · 2025-04-07T13:58:49-0400

Aramil said:
Logitech M500s Advanced Corded Mouse, Yes , Its a USB Device, so Code execution off a piggy backed chip/board inside the mouse would be the simplest way, and maybe with a little help from your mouse software "checking for updates" it would be possible to do so.

You can technically make almost any USB device deliver a package, as long as you know the target system/OS, that's how less than legitimate USB sticks/cables allow for "package delivery" to otherwise untouchable systems, everyone knows not to plug in random USB drives.

My parents use a USB writing tablet that has no drivers... because it presents itself as a DVD device, and auto-runs the tablet software whenever it's plugged in. I guess that's convenient for non-technical users, but I don't like it from a security point. Unfortunately you can't disable the auto-run.

Just to top off the security nightmare, it also presents itself as a flash drive, so it can write your tablet settings to itself and reload them on a random PC.

So it's a USB input device/DVD/flash drive in one!

neemobeer · 2025-04-07T14:08:04-0400

1. Yes someone could do this, in fact it's been done before on other device types.

2. I'd say someone would need to be moderately skilled to do this and have a pretty strong motivation. I doubt anyone is going after some rando.

3. What could someone do? Basically anything a computer can do. The attached device could be completely independent of the mouse itself. I have devices that I can emulate keyboards and such and run ducky scripts for whatever purpose I choose to.

kelper · 2025-04-07T14:44:58-0400

A hacker who was personally interested in you could install spying devices in anything you might buy, such as mobile phones, light bulbs, fridges, microwaves, thermostats, pagers, CB radios, smart TVs, Smart watches, Record players, DVDs, Blue Ray players, cars ---- the list is endless.

spapakons · 2025-04-07T15:23:51-0400

Let's not get paranoid here. Unless you are a bank, organization or at least a small business with sensitive data, a hacker is unlikely to target specifically you. Yes, he will if you are not careful and install some malware. This will invite him to explore your PC, but if he doesn't find any interesting information (such as login passwords, movies, applications etc), he will just stop there. He might do a little damage just for fun. That's it. I thought we were talking about a wireless mouse that he could somehow intercept its signal. For a wired mouse, I could say the chances as ZERO, as he should have physical access to the computer to inject malicious code. Watch less Sci-Fi movies, and a little more comedies, or even cartoons... It will calm you down.

spapakons · 2025-04-07T15:34:50-0400

That said, be careful when using a public WiFi, especially if it is without password. This is where you are more at risk, not from your mouse. As soon as you connect, verify it is set to public, not private! Before doing anything else.

Persona78 · 2025-04-07T15:35:50-0400

Like kelper says, any first move of a Hacker is to see if you are person of interest, where you work, where you can give them access, your routines and all of this can be found on any social media, Facebook, Instagram, Telegram, etc., etc.
Your photos, the places you frequent, photos of your workplace, etc., etc.
Imagine that you work at a well-known bank, after knowing your routine, what you like, what you don't like, they can send you misleading advertising for some equipment, a bill from a gas or electricity company that you use with a link that will give him access to your device, can send you a small electronic device for testing that uses wifi, bluetooth, etc., which can also give you access to your networks...
From then on... your life belongs to him and you give him access to the network of the bank where you work, to your home network, to all the devices that you use, etc, etc.
This is an example.

The only one who can prevent or allow this attack is you.

You must be careful, use apps and devices from reliable sources, you have to be careful how you expose your life on social media, check everything before give any permission, and like this you still be in risk...

Modern life s*cks!

spapakons · 2025-04-07T15:39:25-0400

Be extra suspicious of free offers. A Greek proverbs says "cheap costs money" (can incur damages). Also "fear of the Danae and their gift offers".

Chef Duane · 2025-04-07T17:24:47-0400

kelper said:
A hacker who was personally interested in you could install spying devices in anything you might buy, such as mobile phones, light bulbs, fridges, microwaves, thermostats, pagers, CB radios, smart TVs, Smart watches, Record players, DVDs, Blue Ray players, cars ---- the list is endless.

Yes. Here in Texas there was a big squabble about Huawei being HQ'd here and undercutting suppliers on their VoIP offerings. At the time I was with Nortel Networks (now defunct) and it was a major controversy about them supposedly imbedding hidden spy code in their equipment. There were a few court cases about it. That their CEO Ren Zhengfei was a former deputy director of the People's Liberation Army engineering corps, and founded Huawei in 1987 in Shenzhen didn't help assuage fears much either. To this date I think they have closed up shop here in Texas and sold whatever buildings/real estate they had and moved someplace else. I'm out of that world now (cashed out) so I don't know what the latest news is.

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