Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

jacatdilly · Sep 28, 2022

Well, I have upgraded 21H2 to 22H2 on two machines now (upstairs and downstairs), with the same method,
that @Nobody used:
Rufus 3.20 and Repair Install Windows 11 with an In-place Upgrade Tutorial

Couldn't be happier except for one issue I have failed to figure out on the downstairs
HP Pavilion P6751c.b machine.

What happened was when the upgrade was complete, I shut down the machine and plugged in the lan cord.
Restarted and the white revolving worm froze, the machine restarted then it tried to repair, restarted kept doing the cycling until it said can't start the computer.
What the heck?

History
There's no lan wiring downstairs so we use a Netgear AC1200 Wifi Range Extender.
My brother hooked a small length of lan cord from one of its ports to the HP machine
not knowing the HP has a built-in Wifi antenna.

Anyway, I've been using the lan cord/ Range Extender when the HP had Win7, Win10 and Win11 21H2 on it.
Never a problem until Win11 22H2 got updated.

I updated the network adapter driver(Realtek Pcle FE Family controller) dated 2015 to a newer version 2022.
Same problem. Machine crashes big time.
Even tried Clean install and Resetting computer.
Same issue.

What I found was I can briefly plug in the lan cord after the machine has booted into Windows and it works.
Once I restart the machine, it crashes again.

So, what I did on Windows was to just disable the network lan and turn on wifi.
Now Windows 11 22H2 works perfectly with the wifi at max signal strength.

I guess I could drag the machine upstairs and try a lan cord with the main router (skipping the extender),
but I'm too lazy.

Has anybody else had a similar issue with Windows 11 22H2 and lan extenders?

spapakons · Sep 28, 2022

Sounds like a faulty LAN driver or a faulty network card. Try using an earlier driver as the last seems to have a problem. If the problem persists you may have a faulty network card. To make sure, you could boot with a Linux live USB or a Windows PE such as Strelec's and test the card. If it works perfectly there, it is a driver issue.

spapakons · Sep 28, 2022

For those having difficulty to create the dummy appraiserres.dll file, make sure you enable both showing hidden files and extensions of known types. Right-click on the desktop and select to create a new text file. This would be say newtext.txt if you can see the extension. Rename it, deleting the whole file name including the .txt at the end, to appraiserres.dll You should now have a file of zero size. Go to the sources folder, delete the original file and then copy the dummy file in the folder. That's it.

Megahertz · Sep 28, 2022

spapakons said:
For those having difficulty to create the dummy appraiserres.dll file, make sure you enable both showing hidden files and extensions of known types. Right-click on the desktop and select to create a new text file. This would be say newtext.txt if you can see the extension. Rename it, deleting the whole file name including the .txt at the end, to appraiserres.dll You should now have a file of zero size. Go to the sources folder, delete the original file and then copy the dummy file in the folder. That's it.

Hiding extensions is the most stupid thing Microsoft ever created. It is great to execute a virus thinking it is another file type. (naked.jpg.exe (an executable file) will show as naked.jpg (an image file))

spapakons · Sep 28, 2022

Apple Mac OS also has extensions hidden by default, I don't remember about Linux.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 28, 2022

spapakons said:
Apple Mac OS also has extensions hidden by default, I don't remember about Linux.

Linux does not really care about extensions...and by default they're not hidden

TM21 · Sep 28, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
Most of these "cheap" pre-activated ISOs are usually cracked or using stolen Enterprise licences.

I wonder if that's the Voice of Experience? Sure sounds like it.
"Cheap"? Heck, I get mine for FREE!

Just because one company wrote or manufactured something, doesn't mean that only that one company can sell the product, in an open society.
I bought my XXX car from a licensed XXX dealer, but I can also buy one from half a dozen used car lots, just in this county alone.

I've made several improvements in my car, to make it run better and more economically. I like to do the same thing with my OS's.
So put me in jail! I could stand the break, with free food and lodging. :ROFLMAO:

I don't get it, why some folks think that all After Market versions of an OS are pieces of crap???
Maybe some are, but certainly NOT the ones I've downloaded and installed, for my own Amusement.

Cheers Mates!

spapakons · Sep 28, 2022

Let me remind you that you can use any Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1 key to activate Windows 10/11 provided it has not reached the maximum number of activations. Even then, if you cannot activate online but the key is genuine, you can contact Microsoft and activate by phone. This means that you can buy a cheap OEM Windows 7 key, for example, and use it to install and activate Windows 11 instead. If it is cheap, it doesn't necessarily mean it is illegal. It could also be free, such as a Windows 7 key taken from a broken laptop.

jacatdilly · Sep 28, 2022

spapakons said:
Sounds like a faulty LAN driver or a faulty network card. Try using an earlier driver as the last seems to have a problem. If the problem persists you may have a faulty network card. To make sure, you could boot with a Linux live USB or a Windows PE such as Strelec's and test the card. If it works perfectly there, it is a driver issue.

Hi @spapakons

This morning I started up Win11 22H2 with the lan cord plugged in expecting it to crash,
but behold, the system did not crash! I can switch back and forth between wifi and lan ethernet.
Tried again restarting with no system crash.

I didn't do anything. Didn't change any more drivers or update Netgear firmware.
All is well. Must have been a Microsoft update that fixed it late yesterday.
All I can see is a couple of KB2267602 updates.
Whatever it was that caused the crashing has been fixed in Windows 11 system.

Other
Speaking of that Windows PE Sergei Strelec x64 disc, there is a small program called
"Setup W7-10 (only x64)" that's in one of the start menu folders called "Windows Installation".

I used it to install Win11 first version on a very old HP Vista-era machine
that did not have a double-layer DVD drive and could not boot from the Rufus USB memory stick.

"Setup W7-10 (only x64)" made it so the USB memory stick can boot the Windows 11 installation files for a clean install,
The only problem with really old machines though is the video drivers don't work and Windows sets it to use
Microsoft Basic Display Adapter.
Cheerio :)

WAI · Sep 28, 2022

LOL yep

spapakons · Sep 29, 2022

jacatdilly said:
Hi @spapakons

This morning I started up Win11 22H2 with the lan cord plugged in expecting it to crash,
but behold, the system did not crash! I can switch back and forth between wifi and lan ethernet.
Tried again restarting with no system crash.

I didn't do anything. Didn't change any more drivers or update Netgear firmware.
All is well. Must have been a Microsoft update that fixed it late yesterday.
All I can see is a couple of KB2267602 updates.
Whatever it was that caused the crashing has been fixed in Windows 11 system.

Other
Speaking of that Windows PE Sergei Strelec x64 disc, there is a small program called
"Setup W7-10 (only x64)" that's in one of the start menu folders called "Windows Installation".

I used it to install Win11 first version on a very old HP Vista-era machine
that did not have a double-layer DVD drive and could not boot from the Rufus USB memory stick.

"Setup W7-10 (only x64)" made it so the USB memory stick can boot the Windows 11 installation files for a clean install,
The only problem with really old machines though is the video drivers don't work and Windows sets it to use
Microsoft Basic Display Adapter.
Cheerio :)

I hadn't seen this utility in Strelec. Thanks for sharing. Very old systems without a WDDM graphics driver use Microsoft Basic Display Adapter which is software only (no hardware acceleration) and make the old computer even slower. For best performance in these systems I recommend Windows 7 32-bit and then install the Windows XP graphics drivers (XPDM mode).

If however you decide to install Windows 8 or higher you can improve performance if you disable all visual effects, such as transparency and fades.

jacatdilly · Sep 29, 2022

spapakons said:
Microsoft Basic Display Adapter which is software only (no hardware acceleration)

Yes exactly, that's the problem with that software basic display driver. Too slow with 1 or 2core CPU.

For the last few years, I had upgraded that Vista machine with 32-bit Windows 10 with a new power supply, an SSD drive, and GeForce 710 graphics card. Worked great for old games, web, and YouTube videos.

When I put newer versions of 64-bit Win10 or Win11 on it, there was visual display corruption.
I tried a number of Geforce 64-bit Win10 drivers and also another Geforce 710 card without success.

The card only worked with an older unknown Win10 driver.
Any new Windows drivers that replaced it made the display corrupt.
Got tired of messing with it.
Removing the graphics card removed the corruption.
So, due to the slowness of the software's basic display driver,
I gave up on Windows 11 on that machine and reinstalled the working Windows 10 32-bit.

In general for anybody reading this,
there's another problem for anyone trying to upgrade Windows 11 on very old machines besides driver issues.
They are called "Electrolytic capacitors"
and affect the reliability of filtering the noise out of all the dc power supply lines inside the computer.

They are large and small aluminum cans with a shrink-wrapped colored plastic covering.
They are in the power supply, motherboard, and some PCI cards.
After many years of use, the capacitors have a liquid inside the can that will eventually dry out,
or leak out from the top or bottom of the can, thus making them not work correctly anymore.

Newer machines have fewer electrolytic caps and use better long-lasting solid tantalum capacitors (no liquid inside).

It's fun trying to upgrade Win11 on very old machines, but if you see those can-shaped capacitors that have bulged out,
or/and leaked liquid, it's better to skip the upgrade on that machine. It's probably not worth the trouble.
The machine is old and more prone to more errors, and crashes.

On my machine, I could only find one visually bad cap (the aluminum top had split open) and replaced it with the same specs.
There's a good chance that there are more caps that have deteriorated and will fail eventually.
Recapping all the electrolytic capacitors on a multi-layer motherboard would be no fun at all.

Ghot · Sep 29, 2022

Here is a pic of the older capacitors which were prone to leaking as they got seriously, older...

The newer leak-proof capacitors....

Really big capacitors like you won't see on motherboards...

Then there's my motherboard with the deadly Japanese Ninja capacitors...

jacatdilly · Sep 29, 2022

I think the second picture has solid polymer aluminum capacitors which are good.
Most electrolytics with electrolyte fluid inside have the telltale cross in the top of the metal can.
That will vent the liquid or gas slowly instead of blowing up with a bang.

jacatdilly · Sep 29, 2022

Wow, very nice-looking motherboard, and the caps a very small.
I guess that's because of the higher switching frequencies used
and the caps are better quality solid low ESR types.

spapakons · Sep 29, 2022

A typical computer is expected to last for at least 20 years. If you have a newer computer, it might be worth upgrading to Windows 11. If it's 20 years old already and still in working condition, it is too slow for your needs, but I would install Windows 11 as proof of concept. It's up to you.

It may seem easy to just replace your computer every 5 years, say, but for us that cannot afford to do that it's certainly worth it to just install a newer Windows version and give it more life.

jacatdilly · Sep 29, 2022

We even have an XP-era machine upgraded to Windows 10 that's used almost daily in the kitchen.
It's left on for days at a time. Has never failed yet.
Only updated it with an SSD and wireless keyboard & mouse.

All 6 machines in the house have Windows 10 installed and work fine for TV, personal, shopping, banking, etc.
In the last year, I have temporarily installed Windows 11 on qty three of those 5-plus-year-old machines, so far mostly just for testing.
I don't do video calls or play the latest games.

There was one computer I bought years ago that was powerful at the time, very hot and noisy with all the cooling fans going.
That one lasted about three years.

Will I go out and buy a new Windows 11 computer?
Eventually, but it better be very quiet and powerful at the same time.

Bree · Sep 29, 2022

jacatdilly said:
I have temporarily installed Windows 11 on qty three of those 5-plus-year-old machines, so far mostly just for testing.
I don't do video calls or play the latest games.

The oldest machine I have installed Windows 11 is my System Two in My Computers below, a Dell Latitude E4310. It is 12 years old, built in October 2010, and has a 1st gen i5 processor.

I do use it for Video calls, before upgrading from Win10 it was the only machine I had installed Zoom on. Now it's on Win11 22H2, 22621.521 it is still the only one I use for Zoom conference calls.

junglee · Sep 30, 2022

Today I got the first feature update "Windows 11 Insider Preview 10.0.22623.730 (ni_release)" after the release of 22H2 annual feature update by Microsoft to regular Windows 11 users. Its installation was smooth and without any problem. Does the installation of this update means that I am par with the regular users or does it mean that now I am one step ahead of them?

spapakons · Sep 30, 2022

You are little ahead of the general release. Remember that no update checks compatibility, they all download and install like if you have a compliant computer. Only upgrades to a newer version check compatibility and need replacing the appraiserres.dll file with an empty dummy to install.

Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

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