Solved Lost access to BIOS after adding a 2nd M.2 SSD

I loved the drive drawers, I used to have them in all my machines. It was sad to see them go away. I also had a nifty SATA/USB 2.5" enclosure that had a frame that mounted in the front bay. You just pressed the drive in like a microSD and it popped out. You could then use it with a USB cable, when you latched it in, it was a SATA drive.

I can't imagine going without these sorts of things on my main. I do PC repair and often times I need to check drives on a fully functional, more forgiving system. Plus my recovery tools are on my main so I use it to recover data for people who don't want to pay an arm and a leg for data recovery. Sometimes I can get away with just using a toaster but other times I have to use SATA. This is where my sleds come in very handy.

Scannerman said:

I can't imagine going without these sorts of things on my main. I do PC repair and often times I need to check drives on a fully functional, more forgiving system. Plus my recovery tools are on my main so I use it to recover data for people who don't want to pay an arm and a leg for data recovery. Sometimes I can get away with just using a toaster but other times I have to use SATA. This is where my sleds come in very handy.

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Not as big problem nowadays, just add one of these: SABRENT USB C Docking Station for M.2 PCIe/NVMe and SATA 2.5/3.5 Inch SSD & HDD with Offline Cloning. I have the earlier version without the NVMe capability, it's been very handy.

Yup. Toasters are handy. It's good to keep one's options open. Not all drives work well with USB. I use both.

I'll not buy from Sabrent ever again after three failed enclosures.

I learned the hard way so now I take no chances. One of the biggest messes I ever got into in my life was doing a clean install on a new NVME without disconnecting all the secondary drives. All was fine for a while.....until the secondary HDD died and the BCD died with it. After MUCH reading, I finally found a MS article that specifically stated Windows would install its BCD on the first EFI disk it SEES whether that disk is the system disk or not. My HDD was Disk 0. The new NVME was Disk 1.

I wish I had saved that MS article as proof to show any naysayers who don't believe us. Yes, one can have any number of secondary drives without disconnecting them...as long as those drives are configured as MBR or are drives with higher assigned drive numbers than is assigned to the system drive.
Since then, I've noticed that the OEM systems do assign lower drive numbers to SATA drives than NVME drives. I can not speak for custom boards.

Depending on one's drive configuration, it's my opinion this may also be the reason we are seeing so many boot issues after folks have cloned their drive.

glasskuter said:

Since then, I've noticed that the OEM systems do assign lower drive numbers to SATA drives than NVME drives. I can not speak for custom boards.

Depending on one's drive configuration, it's my opinion this may also be the reason we are seeing so many boot issues after folks have cloned their drive.

Click to expand...

Exactly! When I had the problem, I had two NVMe drives and one SATA SSD, the BCD was on the SATA drive and Windows was on one of the NVMe drives.

glasskuter said:

Depending on one's drive configuration, it's my opinion this may also be the reason we are seeing so many boot issues after folks have cloned their drive.

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The main reason people have boot issues after cloning their drive is because a true clone is an exact duplicate of the original. When both drives are left in the PC it does not know which drive to boot to and locks up. It is said that the system is "confused". When there are no other EFI partitions on any of the drives on the PC during an installation the EFI partition will be written to the selected drive upon which the operating system is to be installed. So, in theory you could have 24 drives all running on a PC and as long as none of them have a EFI partition you will write your boot strap to the drive you select for the OS.

Scannerman said:

The main reason people have boot issues after cloning their drive is because a true clone is an exact duplicate of the original. When both drives are left in the PC it does not know which drive to boot to and locks up. It is said that the system is "confused". When there are no other EFI partitions on any of the drives on the PC during an installation the EFI partition will be written to the selected drive upon which the operating system is to be installed. So, in theory you could have 24 drives all running on a PC and as long as none of them have a EFI partition you will write your boot strap to the drive you select for the OS.

Click to expand...

Not sure what's going on with EFI. As far as I can tell, my system uses some EFI partition to boot a disk without EFI on it (?).

Looking at my current setup:
Disk 0: is my old SSD disk used mostly for data.
Disk 1: is my old M.2 SSD that used (and still is able to) boot Win 11 Canary.
Disk 2: is my new M2.SSD larger disk to replace Canary with a standard version. It boots fine into Win 11 24H2. This was setup from a bootable Rufus.

The selection between Disk1 and 2, shows as a popup during boot with the options (Volume 11 or Volume 2 (I think)). Volume 11 is the Disk 2.

Why there's no EFI on disk 2, I don't know. Should I (somehow) force the creation of the EFI partition there?
I'm wondering what will happen if I format or remove the other two disks. Will the system even boot?

kanenas said:

Not sure what's going on with EFI. As far as I can tell, my system uses some EFI partition to boot a disk without EFI on it (?).

Looking at my current setup:
Disk 0: is my old SSD disk used mostly for data.
Disk 1: is my old M.2 SSD that used (and still is able to) boot Win 11 Canary.
Disk 2: is my new M2.SSD larger disk to replace Canary with a standard version. It boots fine into Win 11 24H2. This was setup from a bootable Rufus.

The selection between Disk1 and 2, shows as a popup during boot with the options (Volume 11 or Volume 2 (I think)). Volume 11 is the Disk 2.

Why there's no EFI on disk 2, I don't know. Should I (somehow) force the creation of the EFI partition there?
I'm wondering what will happen if I format or remove the other two disks. Will the system even boot?

Click to expand...

Pretty sure the answer is no. If you're going to take those other disks out, you need to fix that first!

Thanks.
I'll look into it.
Maybe Rufus or some partition manager has a way to copy EFI from disk 1...

kanenas said:

Thanks.
I'll look into it.
Maybe Rufus or some partition manager has a way to copy EFI from disk 1...

Click to expand...

MiniTool is good for this. Not sure about the free version.

Scannerman said:

MiniTool is good for this. Not sure about the free version.

Click to expand...

Good, I have MiniTool and I'll start with it.

Back to the adventure and another "got stuck" point.

First off, I added an EFI partition to the new Disk 2.



Everything is operationally fine except the choice of the boot disk whenever it comes up, gives more or less a random result. Usually the new disk boots up but sometimes the older one, no matter what I choose. But I'll check it after I verify with the BIOS state, assuming I can get into it.

In another thread I started, I'm trying to convert an old USB 2 external disk (in a USB 2 enclosure) from MBR to GPT, put it in a USB 3 enclosure and try to see if I get better speeds from it.
That disk is 4TB of data in a single partition (managed by the enclosure's interface).
After some problems (maybe with the GPT conversion) the disk was still fine (but probably still in MBR mode).
Until I made some change in the BIOS related to the handling of USB under UEFI. I think it was in 'Auto' mode and I made it 'only in UEFI' or something like that.
And now the disk is ignored whenever I connect it.

Going back to the BIOS to fix it, I now have no control !! No mouse (frozen cursor), no keyboard (doesn't respond).
I tried with the Installed wireless Logitech keyboard/mouse as well as two other USB mice, one of them a vanilla Microsoft. They work in parallel to the Logitech but inside the BIOS, zilch.
Probably related to that USB setting in the BIOS but why they are restricted in BIOS only and not in Windows?
Do I need to find and use a PS2 mouse? Resetting the BIOS by pulling batteries and what not, it's a bit of a haslle these days and I try to avoid it.

Strangely, even not having control while in it, I can get to the BIOS panel through the Advanced Startup Options in Windows.
If I try F2 or DEL (the usual keys), they get ignored and the system boots into Windows.

Any suggestions are very welcome.

kanenas said:

Back to the adventure and another "got stuck" point.

First off, I added an EFI partition to the new Disk 2.

Everything is operationally fine except the choice of the boot disk whenever it comes up, gives more or less a random result. Usually the new disk boots up but sometimes the older one, no matter what I choose. But I'll check it after I verify with the BIOS state, assuming I can get into it

Click to expand...

Could you please be more specific about how many operating systems you are using and what they are? Are you attempting to run dual boot? You can change boot order priority in your UEFI/BIOS under the "Boot" tab.

kanenas said:

In another thread I started, I'm trying to convert an old USB 2 external disk (in a USB 2 enclosure) from MBR to GPT, put it in a USB 3 enclosure and try to see if I get better speeds from it.
That disk is 4TB of data in a single partition (managed by the enclosure's interface).
After some problems (maybe with the GPT conversion) the disk was still fine (but probably still in MBR mode).
Until I made some change in the BIOS related to the handling of USB under UEFI. I think it was in 'Auto' mode and I made it 'only in UEFI' or something like that.
And now the disk is ignored whenever I connect it.

Click to expand...

With older USB enclosures with 4TB hard drives you have to partition the drive because the maximum it can handle is 3TB in GPT. I recommend dividing it in half, that is to say to make two 2TB partitions. You can do this in MiniTool. Seagate used to provide some software for this issue but it tended to be buggy so I don't recommend it. If you're referring to a WD "My Book" or something of that sort I recommend cracking it open and pulling the drive because the bridges in those almost always go. But that's just been my experience with the things. You can do what you like, of course.

kanenas said:

Going back to the BIOS to fix it, I now have no control !! No mouse (frozen cursor), no keyboard (doesn't respond).
I tried with the Installed wireless Logitech keyboard/mouse as well as two other USB mice, one of them a vanilla Microsoft. They work in parallel to the Logitech but inside the BIOS, zilch.
Probably related to that USB setting in the BIOS but why they are restricted in BIOS only and not in Windows?
Do I need to find and use a PS2 mouse? Resetting the BIOS by pulling batteries and what not, it's a bit of a haslle these days and I try to avoid it.

Click to expand...

Get a manual mouse and keyboard. This cordless stuff isn't preferred for trouble shooting. The moment I read the word "Logitech" I didn't need to know anymore. PS2 wouldn't hurt but usually not necessary. Make sure your CMOS battery is fresh. Also check to see if you're using latest BIOS. Make sure all other peripherals are disconnected. You can reconnect them after you boot to an OS. (This includes any external hard drives.)

I'm really hoping you're not trying to boot to a clone of an OS while the original is still connected to the board. (Just an afterthought.) Please state how many operating systems you're running on that unit and what they are. Win 10? Win 11? Something other? It is advisable to work on one drive at a time when trouble shooting.

Thank you much Scannerman.

The desktop used to have one M.2 bootable with Win 11 Canary on it, plus a standard SSD (data only and not bootable).
They show in the screen cap as Disk 1 and Disk 0, respectively.

I wanted to get rid of Canary and also get a faster/bigger bootable M.2, so I got Disk 2.
It's an M.2 that piggybacks the older one. I installed Win 11 24H2 on it with Rufus. In the future, the two M.2 drives will flip position because I believe the older one is on a higher priority in the PCI bus. This will happen, after I transfer any programs I need to the new M.2 and the Canary will become history then.

As is, both systems are running fine. Selection comes up at cold boot as Volume 11 (new M.2) and Volume 2 (old M.2).
So, to answer your question, I have two Win 11 systems created individually.

With the two systems stable, I tried to add to the soup the external USB disk in GPT mode.

After I resolve the problem of having control again while in the BIOS, you might have given me the reason why my external 4TB USB disk is giving me such problems.

You said GPT handles only up to 3TB partitions?!

I had no idea that GPT is also limited with such low partition sizes (in today's disk market).
This explains why after I converted the 4TB to GPT (as a single partition), the system wouldn't recognize it.

Until I resolve the BIOS problem, I can try convert it to GPT (after splitting it in two), using the Win 10 in my laptop.

There goes my weekend :)

As for Logitech, I agree. Doggish products nowadays.
The PS2 mouse might be the only solution (other than a BIOS reset) now. Two other USB mice I tried, were also ineffective.
The PS2 might need some adjustments in BIOS to make it work and if so, a reset is in order.

Much appreciated for the helping hand.

kanenas said:

You said GPT handles only up to 3TB partitions?!

Click to expand...

Only MBR has a limit of 4 Primary partitions and (using a 512-byte sectors) a drive size of 2.2T (one or multi partitions)

kanenas said:

I had no idea that GPT is also limited with such low partition sizes (in today's disk market).

Click to expand...

GPT isn't limited with such low partition sizes

kanenas said:

This explains why after I converted the 4TB to GPT (as a single partition), the system wouldn't recognize it.

Click to expand...

What you say makes no sense. If you just convert a MBR into GPT it won't create a EFI partition with the boot managers so it doesn't boot

After you created a EFI partition on a GPT drive (you must create with Diskpart so it has the correct ID) you must load the boot manager on it.
To create a EFI partition on a drive that has no EFI partition and then load the boot manager on it, open a CMD window as administrator and type:

diskpart
list disk (it will list all drives. Identify the drive number n that you want to create a EFI partition)
select disk n (replace n by the drive number obtained with list disk)
list part (it will list all partitions on the drive. Identify the partition number m that has windows on it)
select part m (replace m by the windows partition number obtained with list part)
shrink desired=100 (this will shrink the windows partition in 100M)
create part EFI
format quick FS=fat32 label=EFI
assign letter=W
exit
bcdboot m:\Windows /s W: /f UEFI (replace m by the windows partition number obtained with list part. This will load the boot manger on the created EFI)
diskpart
select vol W
remove letter=W
exit
exit

To enter UEFI BIOS
Settings>System>Recovery>Advanced Start up = Restart now
Once it restart it will go to Recovery. Select "Troubleshoot," then "Advanced options," and finally "UEFI Firmware Settings."
Clicking "Restart" will then boot you into the BIOS configuration screen

Another way to enter recovery is to run Reagentc /boottore as administrator then Restart now

Thank you Megahertz.

Booting into BIOS is not a problem. Doing anything there is the problem. Mouse and keyboard (bluetooth for Logitech and/or USB for other brands) are dead on the water. I assume the reason is a change I had made in the BIOS on how to treat legacy USB.

I couldn't find either any 3TB limit on the partition size for EFI. Maybe a misspell or Scannerman had something else in mind.

As for having an EFI partition on the converted-to-GPT USB disk, it sounds right except that I read that EFI is only required for bootable disks, not Data ones.
I had tried at the beginning of this mess:
Convert to GPT. No go
Added an EFI. No go and the EFI was erased by the system.
I didn't try the reverse sequence though...

I had used the diskpart commands you mentioned to generate an EFI for the new bootable M.2 SSD and they did the job just fine and in seconds.

Anyway, worse comes to worst, I'll take the PC to the shop to reset the BIOS. It seems to have a small switch for it too but no response from it, probably not connected to the motherboard.

Regards.

kanenas said:

Thank you Megahertz.

Booting into BIOS is not a problem. Doing anything there is the problem. Mouse and keyboard (bluetooth for Logitech and/or USB for other brands) are dead on the water. I assume the reason is a change I had made in the BIOS on how to treat legacy USB.

Click to expand...

As you have a desktop, reset the BIOS:
- disconnect the power cord from wall outlet
- Reset BIOS by taking out the CR2032 coin battery for two minutes.

- Enter BIOS and reconfigure it

kanenas said:

I couldn't find either any 3TB limit on the partition size for EFI. Maybe a misspell or Scannerman had something else in mind.

Click to expand...

EFI is a Fat32 partition and so, under Windows, it has a 32G limit. Normally the EFI partition is 100M and you will never need more than that.

kanenas said:

As for having an EFI partition on the converted-to-GPT USB disk, it sounds right except that I read that EFI is only required for bootable disks, not Data ones.

Click to expand...

That is right. EFI is only required for bootable disks

kanenas said:

I had tried at the beginning of this mess:
Convert to GPT. No go
Added an EFI. No go and the EFI was erased by the system.
I didn't try the reverse sequence though...

I had used the diskpart commands you mentioned to generate an EFI for the new bootable M.2 SSD and they did the job just fine and in seconds.

Click to expand...

kanenas said:

Anyway, worse comes to worst, I'll take the PC to the shop to reset the BIOS. It seems to have a small switch for it too but no response from it, probably not connected to the motherboard.

Click to expand...

As I already mentioned, Reset BIOS by taking out the CR2032 coin battery for two minutes.

I'd rather take it to store. I know how to do it but it's easier for me to just pick up the desktop and drive to the shop. I can easily move standing up or driving but if I bend my knees, my waist will kill me when I stand up. Very annoying.

Also, bad phrasing on my part.
The 3TB partition size on EFI, doesn't refer to the EFI's partition size (usually 100-150M), but rather to a partition's size limit as defined in EFI mode.