Modern Standby - Scheduled Tasks

A little more on Adaptive Hibernate.

Haven't really found any hits on this term so far at elevenforum.com but possibly I missed them.

Adaptive Hibernate Overview

Man this stuff is really a Pandora's Box

Also an interesting recent post detailing a suspected Lenovo bug preventing Adaptive Hibernate from working correctly with a link to an Intel ACPI tool to look for indications of the possible bug. My system checked out based on the details in the post.

dabl said:

A little more on Adaptive Hibernate.

Haven't really found any hits on this term so far at elevenforum.com but possibly I missed them.

Adaptive Hibernate Overview

Man this stuff is really a Pandora's Box

Also an interesting recent post detailing a suspected Lenovo bug preventing Adaptive Hibernate from working correctly with a link to an Intel ACPI tool to look for indications of the possible bug. My system checked out based on the details in the post.

Click to expand...

You can keep Pandora's box closed, by turning off hibernate.

hdmi said:

You can keep Pandora's box closed, by turning off hibernate.

Click to expand...

Eh?

That quip by itself isn't helpful.

How exactly?

There is no such obvious option to do that on my system.

There are no such instructions to do that in Disable Modern Standby in Windows 10 and Windows 11

hdmi said:

powercfg h 0

Click to expand...

Then the question becomes why would I want to do that.

Seems like a really stupid idea to me unless the machine is always connected to power and could/would never be run on battery.

Definitely not my use case as I stated earlier in the thread.

What would be the benefit exactly to disabling hibernate?

Getting back the diskspace?

Who the f*** cares?

I think the suggestion of disabling hibernation was only made because of the interest you showed in inhibiting Adaptive Hibernate.

I've never taken any particular interest in Adaptive Hibernate because it has never got in my way [that I've noticed].
I kept some links about Adaptive Hibernate, Standby budget & so on:-
my post in papi thread - #16 - TenForums
Why is my laptop battery draining to zero in hibernate - Super User
Sleep - Standby - Hibernate ZephyrusM16 - Reddit
How to disable adaptive hibernate - Super User

I would not be at all surprised to discover that OEMs can set up Adaptive Hibernate parameters in hidden parts of the Bios that override any settings the user tries to make. I have no evidence.



All the best,
Denis

Try3 said:

I think the suggestion of disabling hibernation was only made because of the interest you showed in inhibiting Adaptive Hibernate.

Click to expand...

Ah, then my interest was taken the wrong way. I was interested (and dismayed) to learn all stuff this continued to get more and more complex and more and more out of the control of the user. 'Pandoras Box' wasn't the best metaphor since I don't believe hibernation itself is a bad thing at all. Quite the opposite and absolutely needed for a typical laptop that will run on battery. But it is troubling that the user apparently has no control of it on an S0 system. For Windows 10 VMs created from Macrium images of traditional S3 systems I definitely disable it and do so via the traditional controls available in the GUI. When I saw those were gone on my Windows 11 S0 system it was just another head shaker.

Try3 said:

I've never taken any particular interest in Adaptive Hibernate because it has never got in my way [that I've noticed].

Click to expand...

Yes, it seems like if you use S0 you might as well use Adaptive Hibernate.

Try3 said:

I kept some links about Adaptive Hibernate, Standby budget & so on:-

Click to expand...

Awesome, thank you.

I want to get scheduled tasks working on my unmodified S0 system behaving as closely as possible to an S3 system for a baseline backup before trying to disable S0 and enable S3 on it and seeing how it runs that way, which if it does would certainly be less a pain in the ass and less silly than my rdp method. Having said that I do have an always on unRAID server that can run VMs so doing that is not really that crazy for my environment.

At this point I got rid of Wise Auto Shutdown which ended up working fine after the initial install and did not stop the system from going into S0 idle. The problem I had with that was it only offered 'log off' which worked fine and allowed the system to return to an S0 idle state following the macrium backup scheduled task, but since it logs off the user, all all running programs of course get shutdown and closed. So when you come back to the machine and login, nothing was how you left it.

I want to return to an unmodified S0 idle condition machine after it has run a scheduled task overnight and have it return to working state with everything as it was when I walked away from it.

I'm now trying the macrium feature to run a program at the end of a backup job which will be the below, which should hopefully simply exit the rdp session but not log the user off.

This is what I run to exit any manually initiated rdp session on my network as it leaves the machine in the same state as it was before the rdp session.

for /f "skip=1 tokens=3" %%s in ('query user %USERNAME%') do (
%windir%\System32\tscon.exe %%s /dest:console
)

There's an interesting section in Event Viewer on my Lenovo. I haven't dug in to try and understand what some of the entries mean but it sort of looks like it's related to the management of the idle condition of Modern Standby on the machine.

Denis, you may have already known about the below.

Based on this it seems to me Microsoft may not be keeping it a complete secret how to implement modern standby in applications.

The question is after drilling into this, is there in fact a real world useable tool here a developer of something like Macrium Reflect could make something with.

Integrating apps with modern standby

Support your app with background tasks

Wake sources

Based on reading through the Wake sources link (which confirms rdp was a known mechanism) it sounds like simple file sharing might be a much better way than rdp, given there is otherwise no need to make a connection to the machine, which also turns on the display unnecessarily, and then having to deal with disconnecting the session etc.

Yet another twist (connected standby) which really does sound like a show stopper if your machine has it, for any hope of nightly scheduled tasks running by any application that doesn't use whatever magic is needed.

Thankfully so far I don't think I've seen this.

It just makes me laugh to hear how bad this all was and still is.

If you'd just use the method I use, you'd be able to run your scheduled tasks.


All the best,
Denis

Try3 said:

If you'd just use the method I use, you'd be able to run your scheduled tasks.


All the best,
Denis

Click to expand...

I guess I didn't make it clear, my scheduled tasks are running great with no disabling sleep in S0 mode.

The method I use rouses the machine in S0 idle mode with sleep enabled.

The scheduled task then runs and afterward the machine returns to S0 idle mode.

That was my short term goal.

Next step is to substitute a simple remote program execution for the full blown rdp and requisite clearing of the rdp session.

No question my methods will appeal to far fewer people than yours.

My long term goal is to do whatever is in my means to help/see application developers like Paramount (Macrium) implement whatever they have to so users don't need workarounds like yours or mine.

I understand you and perhaps others may be tired after fighting this for years already and have come up with something that works for you.

I am not tired, I'm just getting started and I don't really dig a solution involving disabling a feature I like and use.

I think there may be others like me.

The information I found that may help developers appears to be pretty new, like last month maybe.

Any way you slice it Microsoft has more work to do with modern standby. As it is, even improved from the disastrous early days, is still miles from their goal of acting like modern day phones.

If Microsoft really want laptops to act like modern phones then they will have to make modern standby really bullet proof and much smarter, for instance smart enough to say 'yeah I'm not going to try and pull down and install this giant file or worse, bios firmware while on battery and/or when the network connection is less than ideal'. I know for a fact my Apple phone is smart enough to do that kind of thing.

Per Linus Sebastian's video from a year ago, I fully agree there should be an additional adjustment Microsoft should provide like Apple finally did, which is to allow the user to turn off network activity while on battery in S0 idle. This makes perfect sense and I really can't see the argument or use case for allowing a computer to have a bunch of network activity let alone do updates which could involve huge amounts of data while on battery.

dabl said:

I don't really dig a solution involving disabling a feature I like and use

Click to expand...

Disabling sleep in power options does not actually disable anything [except S0 Modern standby's ability to transition to its later phases].


Denis