Solved Switch to Linux

I'd think you have to sort out the (non-business) user base first:

• "I (barely) know how to turn it on." About 90 to 95% of the world, these folks have Windows, however Microsoft chooses to serve it up to them. Nothing really changes here, until the user chooses to learn more, and this group is done.
• "I run one OS (my OS), on one machine." About 4 to 5% of the world, nothing *will* change here (until they want to change), and this group is also done.
• "I want something better than either Windows or Linux." About 1% or less of that last 5%, this is a group of folks we can work with.

For that last group, and given today's incredibly powerful hardware, virtualization is about the only answer. Run a near-immutable HostOS, run other OS's in vm's, and everything just works (every problem listed in this thread is solved).

Gamers (CAD'ers, DTP'ers, etc.) still run in a near-immutable dedicated machine, because this is their "livelihood".

jimbo45 said:

GIMP is probably more than sufficient - although you still can't beat full photoshop.

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Actually...GIMP is more powerful than Photoshop. It has an ACE in its sleeve...the UI could however benefit from a full redesign.

cereberus said:

Undeniable fact - Linux does not run many Windows programs and that is a deal breaker for vast majority of users.

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Undeniable fact. Windows does not run any MacOS apps. Let's all switch to Mac and become Apple sheep. Their tools are miles ahead when it comes to final polish and you want stuff done.

jimbo45 said:

Most people don't need full photoshop (that's why Photoshop elements came out)

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Most people don't need ANY Adobe tools nor Microsoft tools. This is a fact. It just happens that their computer came with Windows and all its services.

SlicEnDicE said:

Undeniable fact. Windows does not run any MacOS apps. Let's all switch to Mac and become Apple sheep. Their tools are miles ahead when it comes to final polish and you want stuff done.

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SlicEnDicE said:

Most people don't need ANY Adobe tools nor Microsoft tools. This is a fact. It just happens that their computer came with Windows and all its services.

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This is just getting to be a p#ss#ng contest now.

As Maggie used to say "let the market decide".

cereberus said:

This is just getting to be a p#ss#ng contest now.

As Maggie used to say "let the market decide".

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Out of thousands of customers I've helped and served, does not do anything Adobe nor Microsoft/Windows specific. Everything they do could be done on any OS, including mobile ones, which is also a viable option today. The market has already decided this.

90% of my computing today happens on my quite powerful phone. Be it on the tiny screen or hooked up to a 32" monitor, mouse and KB. All can be done, including special tasks like programming...

Running Linux only is not a show stopper for most users.

cereberus said:

Typical Linux rhetoric.

Undeniable fact - Linux does not run many Windows programs and that is a deal breaker for vast majority of users.

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Also a fact...... Most of those running Linux on their machine are probably not interested in running Windows programs. A very healthy amount of most day to day apps work in all platforms, (Windows/Linux/Mac). For other apps, there are plenty of alternatives out there. For very specific apps and specific workloads, Linux might not be the tool for you....and that's okay too. Use the right tool for the right job.

But as a Linux systems engineer for almost 25 years, I've never said....WOW, if only this could run Windows applications then it would be useful.

Lots of Apple users out there, who also cannot run Windows apps and get along just fine.

SlicEnDicE said:

Undeniable fact. Windows does not run any MacOS apps. Let's all switch to Mac and become Apple sheep. Their tools are miles ahead when it comes to final polish and you want stuff done.

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Some of the Apple stuff is not bad at all. I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but my 2013 MacBook Pro and my 2020 M1 Mac Mini are great devices. I however don't use an iPhone....only Android for me (thus far).

Tons of systems engineers at my work use Mac's by choice. I had a choice and I wanted a Windows box because at the time I started, I was doing mostly Windows server engineering tasks for my company. Last few years though, mostly doing Linux and cloud stuff, so I could be just fine on a Mac as well.

pparks1 said:

Some of the Apple stuff is not bad at all. I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but my 2013 MacBook Pro and my 2020 M1 Mac Mini are great devices. I however don't use an iPhone....only Android for me (thus far).

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My oldest daughter is an Apple fan girl. I even recommended her a Macbook M2/M3 model (whichever was cheaper at time of purchase)

She's always been an iPhone user and fell in love with Apple products because of school and their free iPads. She is extremely happy with her Macbook purchase.

She even had a few chosen bad words about similar Windows laptops she used to use before this one and they weren't pretty. I believe her 100% and can relate.

SlicEnDicE said:

She is extremely happy with her Macbook purchase.

She even had a few chosen bad words about similar Windows laptops she used to use before this one and they weren't pretty. I believe her 100% and can relate.

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Yeah, some of the Mac stuff is just good.
1). They go to sleep and come out of sleep pretty much instantly and it works so much better than Windows ever has for me
2). Battery life on the Apple Silicon is just nuts. My M1 idles at 4w of power, that's less than my 5 port ethernet switch that sits next to it.
3). Gesture support on the trackpads is outstanding. Best in class trackpads across the industry.
4). All of their devices have outstanding displays. There is no value Mac monitor.
5). If you do have a problem, and you happen to live in a location with a local apple store, ( i have 2 within 20 minutes), walking in and getting instant hardware support is very nice.
6). They have educational discounts for students and they do fair trade-ins for their older equipment.
7). Time Machine is built it, and just works. It's very slow to restore a full machine with an image, but it does it and you don't need any third party software or know how.


There are some things I don't love about them, but I'm keeping this post positive.

pparks1 said:

There are some things I don't love about them, but I'm keeping this post positive.

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Yeah, every OS and system has their own quirks.

SlicEnDicE said:

Out of thousands of customers I've helped and served, does not do anything Adobe nor Microsoft/Windows specific. Everything they do could be done on any OS, including mobile ones, which is also a viable option today.

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Yup. Many people would honestly be fine with a chromebook. Most people that own windows machines are usually using it for a web browser. Thats it.

pparks1 said:

5). If you do have a problem, and you happen to live in a location with a local apple store, ( i have 2 within 20 minutes), walking in and getting instant hardware support is very nice.

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This is the main reason apple is popular is the USA. People are terrible with tech and need support in person. Not phone or email support. I suspect apple would have even more marketshare if apple stores were abundant everywhere instead of mainly just the states. They do have stores in other countries, but nowhere near the amount in the USA.

My only problem with apple is the price they charge. That's pretty much it. They have changed the things I used to not like about them. Customization being the main one. I prefer android and windows. But thats me. For most people I can recognize how chromebooks and apple can be good for others.

I have a chromebook myself and I love it personally. It cannot replace my windows machine, but it's very cool for simple tasks and super fast. And dirt cheap. Its my vacation computer. Nothing is more secure than it and it has such low cost that it doesn't matter if it gets stolen or lost.

SlicEnDicE said:

Actually...GIMP is more powerful than Photoshop. It has an ACE in its sleeve...the UI could however benefit from a full redesign.

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This is not true and first time I saw post like this one, did you ever use Photoshop for professional work?

I’m using Windows 11 and Linux Mint on my main PC, Linux does have its good points, same as windows does.

forumwt said:

This is not true and first time I saw post like this one, did you ever use Photoshop for professional work?

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How familiar are you with Gimp?

Started with PS (a long time ago) - but then i tried Gimp and the more i used it - the crappier it felt to switch back to PS. Fortunately - since it's free, end-up installing Gimp at work as well - while PS was only good for specific filters available only for PS. Tried it again last year - and still as crappy as ever for general use. In a way, same can be said today - using specific filters that are only available in PS and the recently introduced A.i. tools - is the only part where it shines compared to Gimp. And the only people who praise it - are usually people who used "only PS". That's like using only iPhone - and claiming Android Phones can't even take a picture (cause that's how much one knows about Android). Or using only Windows - and claiming Linux is just for geeks - even thinking Linux doesn't have a GUI/Windows Manager - just a terminal OS. Same goes for PS - some people are quite good with it - despite being a very clumsy tool to use (they simply adapted to its clumsiness). While others can do magic in GIMP - and YES, even at the most Professional level. At the end of the day - since both tools are feature-rich - it matters more how skilled is the creator/artist/designer - than the tool itself.

Adobe is also infamous for having some of the worst ethics: Adobe Tells Users They Can Get Sued for Using Old Versions of Photoshop. No wonder this days - the main tool is available only by subscription. They released Photoshop Elements - as a way to milk the clients interested only in standalone versions - but they rearranged some features which makes it less intuitive for experienced PS users (with older version that is) - and same as its big subscription based brother - is rather poorly optimized. Unless one made a habit of saving the current work every couple of minute - a crash surprise (even on Macs) can really ruin the whole day. Don't even remember the last time GIMP crashed. But hey, since the majority in this field - use PS and only PS - they afford not to care (enough). So yes, as mentioned above - most designers are to heavily indoctrinated - to used to PS to ever even bother learning a similar tool. It's among the software which gained a religious status - in this people's minds (where Adobe PS is the only way).

You miss the point, you can't find any professional photo editing software on Linux anyway, it just doesn't exist. For Windows, you can find several, but unfortunately they are all paid. GIMP cannot replace Photoshop in any way, if you're using GIMP for screenshots or YouTube covers or something that's fine, but I can do all of this in Paint. If you need real photo editing software, GIMP is not for that.

forumwt said:

You miss the point, you can't find any professional photo editing software on Linux anyway, it just doesn't exist. For Windows, you can find several, but unfortunately they are all paid. GIMP cannot replace Photoshop in any way, if you're using GIMP for screenshots or YouTube covers or something that's fine, but I can do all of this in Paint. If you need real photo editing software, GIMP is not for that.

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Gimp is not the reason most people use Linux. I use Paint dot Net (Paint.NET) in Windows 11 and nothing for Pictures in Linux.

forumwt said:

You miss the point, you can't find any professional photo editing software on Linux anyway, it just doesn't exist. For Windows, you can find several, but unfortunately they are all paid. GIMP cannot replace Photoshop in any way, if you're using GIMP for screenshots or YouTube covers or something that's fine, but I can do all of this in Paint. If you need real photo editing software, GIMP is not for that.

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And exact translation of what you said: "You miss the point, you can't find any Android phone that's capable of taking a half cecent photo, it just doesn't exist. iPhones - there are plenty. Android Phones can not compete with iPhone in any way, if you're using any Android Phone to take a photo for your 90 year old grandparents - then even at such a low quality is fine, but i can achieve same photo quality with iPhone 1st gen (2007 edition). If you need a decent enough camera on a phone, Android Phones are not for that (taking photos)."

That's exactly how it sounds like - to anyone who knows a thing or two about GIMP. Clearly, all your understanding of GIMP stops at its name. Here's a brief introduction to some of its basic capabilities - which can satisfy even professional needs:


He's also offering Online Courses for Mastering GIMP at Pro Level:

Uneducated people having uneducated opinions - especially about Linux (again, something they know/knew only by name) - and spreading them around - is what hurt the rising of Linux the most (discouraged many even from trying it - thinking it's an OS that can be used only by Terminal). Same goes for GIMP - when someone like you spreads uneducated rumors - where you're claiming it's on same level with Paint.

OK, so I need to write a list of what you can't do on GIMP and why I pay for Adobe every month or what? List is so long. If you think that I'm a retard who wants to spend money on software but on the other hand I can use exactly the same soft but FREE, you are so wrong.
I tried Linux as a DE, Linus is familiar enough to me because I use it on all servers, but as a DE, Linux is simple BS. Why? First of all drivers and hardware support, there is long list of unsupported hardware, also GPU drivers, I use Nvidia, and anyone who writes and tells that Nvidia today works fine on Linux is not true, or they use Linux for browsing the Internet only. Another big problem is software, some Windows apps simply do not have alternatives.

When I write on Reddit these Linux fans tell me that I need to use X11 instead of Wayland, I won't switch to X11 for many reasons. Another big problem font rendering is sucks on all distros, simple Linux, Windows, and macOS have different ways to render fonts.

If you use a PC for simple tasks, browsing the net, etc., maybe Linux is OK, for business and real jobs, Linux is not an option. And I won't talk about the Linux community, it's too toxic. But the funniest part is when you watch YouTube videos where some Linux fans tell you to switch from Windows to Linux, but they stream video from Windows, or when they talk about "privacy" or freedom while already logged in to Google services.

forumwt said:

If you think that I'm a …… who wants to spend money on software

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Just a horrible term to use. Spend some money on some class.