Solved Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

Mark Phelps · Sep 19, 2021

BunnyJ said:
How did they get it wrong??

They made the so-called Start Menu little other than a shrunken version of the Start Screen. I didn't want what was essentially two copies of the same thing -- so I installed and used Start8 instead.

And yeh, this is only my opinion.

PerpetualCycle · Sep 19, 2021

Here are some new ones I came across today in the dev channel that take away useful functionality. Surprised I did not runb across it earlier. I hope this is a bug:

If I right click on an inf file I am presented with an "Open With" in the list. If I click that, it actually executes the inf. Instead I have to make sure I use the Open-with fly-out out menu. I

n addition, you can no longer open an inf, which is plain text, with notepad - it gives an error that it does not support that format. Yet it will let me open it with wordpad!

Notepad also never shows up in any open-with lists, even text files!

PerpetualCycle · Sep 20, 2021

cereberus said:
and ability to group tiles.

That is what I meant by named categories

johnlgalt · Sep 21, 2021

geneo said:
I do like the new settings,, but usability features removed include

The clock on the taskbar of a second screen
The ability to have named "folders" in the start menu as well as named catagories
The ability to customize context menus
The taskbar context menu
Listing of all apps directly on the start menu for quick access

I do believe that at least some of this will be coming back. No references to anything anyone has said, just my own thinking, for a multitude of reasons.

I do want a timepiece / clock on the secondary monitor, so I have an easy time to look at when gaming without having to include the system time in any sort of overlay program. The listing of apps, I would like that, would prefer that, but it's not a deal breaker for me, and the rest I don't really care about. But that is me, of course. I do things differently. But my gut feeling is that the taskbar is being prepped to be independent of (as much as possible) the rest of the desktop, so apps like Google Drive,m that always cause the taskbar to be closed and then reopened, won't break things like the system tray, for example.

Again, pure speculation on my part - I could very well be more wrong than the moon being made of cheese - but I have a gut feeling about it. And once they get it all nice and independent, they are going to start adding features back to it. Including some that we had before. But probably (most likely) new features that I'd never want in a taskbar in the first place, coupled with leaving out features I do want (like right click on tb to select the Task Manager).

I mean, it's Microsoft. Am I right? :lmao:

timbobit · Sep 21, 2021

The Windows 11 start menu changes will make the elderly unwilling to update

cereberus · Sep 21, 2021

timbobit said:
The Windows 11 start menu changes will make the elderly unwilling to update

I doubt it - they will upate and then will be bewhildered.

BunnyJ · Sep 21, 2021

timbobit said:
The Windows 11 start menu changes will make the elderly unwilling to update

I doubt it,, we have a thread dedicated to this subject and many of the 'elderly' here are going to us

Seniors and Windows11

I would like to ask a question.I read about all the advantages and disadvantages of using 11.I realize that there are a lot of folks that use computers for work.Techs. and such and also the younger generation,for fun,pleasure or whatever.Has MS ever thought about seniors.I am 74 and finally got...

www.elevenforum.com

Winuser · Sep 21, 2021

timbobit said:
The Windows 11 start menu changes will make the elderly unwilling to update

I wouldn't be afraid to bet that most of the elderly computer users don't even know how to check for updates let along how to update to Windows 11. Unless MS does forced updates or they buy a new computer they won't even know about Windows 11 or care.

Josey Wales · Sep 21, 2021

I guess at 73 I am considered elderly and I love Windows 11.

LeLibran · Sep 21, 2021

Purely at a personal level, I believe far too much time is spent on agonising about interface change; and that has nothing whatsoever to do with age. To me it's solely down to what people have become used to/comfortable with; and how much time they have invested in acquiring a level of knowledge and skill. Change is always a threat, especially when it is not fully understood, or simply appears to be imposed by others purely for the sake of change.

I would now, reluctantly, put myself into the 'elderly' camp having started with CP/M, then Ultrix (Dec's version of Unix), DOS, Windows 2.0 onwards and numerous versions of MacOS and Linux, but I still use 8+ different Desktop Interfaces on a weekly if not a daily basis and see nothing in Windows 11 that phases me. If all else fails, 'Search' remains pretty consistent across all. Yes, there is a continuing learning curve with any new interface, but the vast majority of computer users, whether at work or home, simply want/need to know how to get to a relatively small number of applications which they will use on a regular basis and that, to me, should be the primary driver for the design of any interface. Windows 11 seems to achieve that; and so does Windows 10, but with a more conventional design. Like it or not, fashion, design trends; and the influence of tablet/mobile computing have a strong influence.

Apologies if this upsets anyone - no offence is meant; and this is certainly not aimed at any individual member of this forum, but it seems that the most negative views of interface change are often expressed not by the 'elderly', or any other identifiable group, but by very knowledgable and experienced users both here and elsewhere, who have obviously invested much time gaining and applying their existing level of understanding and skill. Why? Could it be, at least in part, because some of their hard-earned knowledge seems now to have been suddenly undermined or threatened; and all that prior learning now needs to be re-examined and adjusted/updated simply because "someone else" has decided to move the goal posts? Sorry, but I think that's called life,

Stigg · Sep 21, 2021

Speaking of age. I'm gonna make a guess and say that the majority of Windows 11 Forum members are over 40.
It probably has some connection with being a Windows lover.

No doubt, I'll be corrected by that statement. :what:

PerpetualCycle · Sep 21, 2021

LeLibran said:
Purely at a personal level, I believe far too much time is spent on agonising about interface change; and that has nothing whatsoever to do with age. To me it's solely down to what people have become used to/comfortable with; and how much time they have invested in acquiring a level of knowledge and skill. Change is always a threat, especially when it is not fully understood, or simply appears to be imposed by others purely for the sake of change.

I would now, reluctantly, put myself into the 'elderly' camp having started with CP/M, then Ultrix (Dec's version of Unix), DOS, Windows 2.0 onwards and numerous versions of MacOS and Linux, but I still use 8+ different Desktop Interfaces on a weekly if not a daily basis and see nothing in Windows 11 that phases me. If all else fails, 'Search' remains pretty consistent across all. Yes, there is a continuing learning curve with any new interface, but the vast majority of computer users, whether at work or home, simply want/need to know how to get to a relatively small number of applications which they will use on a regular basis and that, to me, should be the primary driver for the design of any interface. Windows 11 seems to achieve that; and so does Windows 10, but with a more conventional design. Like it or not, fashion, design trends; and the influence of tablet/mobile computing have a strong influence.

Apologies if this upsets anyone - no offence is meant; and this is certainly not aimed at any individual member of this forum, but it seems that the most negative views of interface change are often expressed not by the 'elderly', or any other identifiable group, but by very knowledgable and experienced users both here and elsewhere, who have obviously invested much time gaining and applying their existing level of understanding and skill. Why? Could it be, at least in part, because some of their hard-earned knowledge seems now to have been suddenly undermined or threatened; and all that prior learning now needs to be re-examined and adjusted/updated simply because "someone else" has decided to move the goal posts? Sorry, but I think that's called life,

I am elderly (60's) and knowledgeable (don't even ask) and what would life be without learning new things? But my criticisms of Windows 11 are based on usability. The Windows 10 interface was well designed (or evolved ) to this end. Like the start menu list of all apps. Open the start menu select a alphabetic letter, select the letter your app starts with and you are there. Now there is an extra step. For Windows 11 all kinds of things are at least one more mouse click removed and you can't change it. Why? This is what bugs me. Context menus are no longer context menus. I can live with it though, but why should I have too? I want the operating system to be efficient to use, not a hindrance.

PerpetualCycle · Sep 21, 2021

Stigg said:
Speaking of age. I'm gonna make a guess and say that the majority of Windows 11 Forum members are over 40.
It probably has some connection with being a Windows lover.

No doubt, I'll be corrected by that statement.

Spot on I think. And the fact these are "old style" forum and not tik-tok or the like.

unifex · Sep 23, 2021

I'm not sure what that has to do with age, but I can't imagine anyone finds this useful:

I don't understand the need for "Recommended" - here it's just wasted space (I realize people might like the "recent" lists, but why is it not optional and why should this section remain there and empty when the "recent" lists are turned off elsewhere in settings?) and I don't understand the search bar here which I will never use (again, I realize some people might like it here, but why is this mandatory, especially with anything search-related - the search service, cortana, etc, - being disabled either in services or in group policy?).

Now, the non-customizable app list is taken from bad phones - even on my restricted Sony Android I can group apps into "folders" (if anyone needs a reason to do that, think more than five apps and you'll get it).

So while there might not be such thing as a 'right" or "ideal" start menu, this thing is definitely "wrong".

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

unifex said:
I'm not sure what that has to do with age, but I can't imagine anyone finds this useful:

I don't understand the need for "Recommended" - here it's just wasted space (I realize people might like the "recent" lists, but why is it not optional and why should this section remain there and empty when the "recent" lists are turned off elsewhere in settings?) and I don't understand the search bar here which I will never use (again, I realize some people might like it here, but why is this mandatory, especially with anything search-related - the search service, cortana, etc, - being disabled either in services or in group policy?).

Now, the non-customizable app list is taken from bad phones - even on my restricted Sony Android I can group apps into "folders" (if anyone needs a reason to do that, think more than five apps and you'll get it).

So while there might not be such thing as a 'right" or "ideal" start menu, this thing is definitely "wrong".

It may be 'wrong' for you but for many others, like me, it's not. I, in fact, like and make use of that feature all of the time. And I do agree that users should have an option to disable that feature and the search one.

Ernimus Prime · Sep 23, 2021

I'm 47. I still play PC games. And I'll probably keep playing PC games. Can't wait for Windows 11 release. Haven't been this excited since the release of Windows ME

Ghot · Sep 23, 2021

Q: Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

A: No.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Ghot said:
Q: Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

A: No.

First you have to define what right means. To me at least right is what each person thinks it is. So, no they may never get it right or perfect.

But,, I like it the way it is.

Josey Wales · Sep 23, 2021

Ernimus Prime said:
I'm 47. I still play PC games. And I'll probably keep playing PC games. Can't wait for Windows 11 release. Haven't been this excited since the release of Windows ME

I am 73 and still play PC Games.

Josey Wales · Sep 23, 2021

BunnyJ said:
First you have to define what right means. To me at least right is what each person thinks it is. So, no they may never get it right or perfect.

But,, I like it the way it is.

I went back to using the Windows 11 Start and removed Open Shell. There is no need to have to start menus, I found that I was using the default most of the time anyway.:) :thumbsup:

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