Solved Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

Ghot · Sep 23, 2021

BunnyJ said:
First you have to define what right means. To me at least right is what each person thinks it is. So, no they may never get it right or perfect.

But,, I like it the way it is.

The thing I really don't like about the Win 11 start menu is that my programs are now TWO clicks away, instead of one click.
Just like the context menus.

It's just stoopid, IMO.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Josey Wales said:
I went back to using the Windows 11 Start and removed Open Shell. There is no need to have to start menus, I found that I was using the default most of the time anyway.:)

Well.. I use it so I don't clutter up my taskbar or desktop with additional icons. But in the end everyone has their own way of setting up and using Windows.. makes life more interesting.
"Variety is the spice of life.. "

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Ghot said:
The thing I really don't like about the Win 11 start menu is that my programs are now TWO clicks away, instead of one click.
Just like the context menus.

It's just stoopid, IMO.

I can go along with that.

Josey Wales · Sep 23, 2021

One day someone if not MS will come up with a fix for that strange context menu.

Ghot · Sep 23, 2021

BunnyJ said:
I can go along with that.

This next thing, I'm gonna hide under a spoiler, so MS doesn't see it and get any ideas.

What's next? A taskbar that only shows what MS wants, and a new icon to click, that shows what I put on the taskbar.

/edit

I like the bottom one better. Adding the "i", makes it blurry, instead of having a spoiler... tag.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

If I had to be nit-picky my issue would be that every OS from Windows to Linux use the same format for their desktops, taskbar and start menu. When will someone come up with a really unique design that's both cool and effective? How about a 'start button' on the left bottom of the area where the taskbar is that when pressed brings up a rotary dial to navigate the full range of start menu options?

The center could bring up all apps and around the edge can bring up things like settings.

This would be based on the old rotary phone but gee.. I'm not that old.

Ghot · Sep 23, 2021

BunnyJ said:
If I had to be nit-picky my issue would be that every OS from Windows to Linux use the same format for their desktops, taskbar and start menu. When will someone come up with a really unique design that's both cool and effective? How about a 'start button' on the left bottom of the area where the taskbar is that when pressed brings up a rotary dial to navigate the full range of start menu options?

The center could bring up all apps and around the edge can bring up things like settings.

This would be based on the old rotary phone but gee.. I'm not that old.

The old 1998 game: Planescape Tournament, had a clickable "rotary" thingy to control the game, for those of us that are keyboard impaired. :)

Even the sub menus were radial. Well most of them.

Berton · Sep 23, 2021

BunnyJ said:
If I had to be nit-picky my issue would be that every OS from Windows to Linux use the same format for their desktops, taskbar and start menu. When will someone come up with a really unique design that's both cool and effective? How about a 'start button' on the left bottom of the area where the taskbar is that when pressed brings up a rotary dial to navigate the full range of start menu options?

The center could bring up all apps and around the edge can bring up things like settings.

This would be based on the old rotary phone but gee.. I'm not that old.

The nice thing about Linux is that most 'flavors' are Open Source, anyone with a better idea can use most of the source code to create what they would like to have.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Berton said:
The nice thing about Linux is that most 'flavors' are Open Source, anyone with a better idea can use most of the source code to create what they would like to have.

Very true and that's the one great things about Linux,.

Quandary · Sep 23, 2021

unifex said:
I'm not sure what that has to do with age, but I can't imagine anyone finds this useful:

View attachment 8436

I don't understand the need for "Recommended" - here it's just wasted space (I realize people might like the "recent" lists, but why is it not optional and why should this section remain there and empty when the "recent" lists are turned off elsewhere in settings?) and I don't understand the search bar here which I will never use (again, I realize some people might like it here, but why is this mandatory, especially with anything search-related - the search service, cortana, etc, - being disabled either in services or in group policy?).

Now, the non-customizable app list is taken from bad phones - even on my restricted Sony Android I can group apps into "folders" (if anyone needs a reason to do that, think more than five apps and you'll get it).

So while there might not be such thing as a 'right" or "ideal" start menu, this thing is definitely "wrong".

The Recommended might be better named Recent based on my use. Allowing it to be removed to make space for more Pinned apps may be useful for some users, but I don't need more than 18 pinned apps shown. This is where the Search Bar is effective (for me). The Search Bar (equivalent function in Win 10) is very handy. Press the Start button and start typing the name of an app you would like to open. Much faster than minimizing everything on the desktop and then double clicking an icon. Frequently used apps have a link on my taskbar.

I use the Recommended feature to find a recently opened file. This is often faster than opening Excel/Word and using its recent history, and it is certainly faster than navigating with Explorer to find a text file.

Maybe there will be customization utilities, or future UI changes, to allow it to be "right" for you, but it is "ideal" for me as is.

barman58 · Sep 23, 2021

There was an add-on Taskbar replacement a long time ago in a galaxy Far Far aw... oops it's OK I'm back, I think it was in the Windows 7 era, it was a movable point that when clicked opened to a wheel which had leaves around it (think of a daisy or sunflower) they when clicked either started an action or opened a set of sub options in another wheel menu ...

only thing I've seen anything like it is the Radial menu on Wacom Tablets

Strangely enough I also whilst looking for a suitable image

RadialMenu isn't just for Wacom anymore — Surface Pro Artist

UPDATE: Surface Pro 3's right pen button now calls up the radial menu correctly. See below. * * * * ORIGINAL POST One of the more popular recent additions to Wacom's Feeldriver is the radial menu, a handy set of shortcuts that can be called up with the click of a pen button.

www.surfaceproartist.com

johnlgalt · Sep 23, 2021

LeLibran said:
Purely at a personal level, I believe far too much time is spent on agonising about interface change; and that has nothing whatsoever to do with age. To me it's solely down to what people have become used to/comfortable with; and how much time they have invested in acquiring a level of knowledge and skill. Change is always a threat, especially when it is not fully understood, or simply appears to be imposed by others purely for the sake of change.

I would now, reluctantly, put myself into the 'elderly' camp having started with CP/M, then Ultrix (Dec's version of Unix), DOS, Windows 2.0 onwards and numerous versions of MacOS and Linux, but I still use 8+ different Desktop Interfaces on a weekly if not a daily basis and see nothing in Windows 11 that phases me. If all else fails, 'Search' remains pretty consistent across all. Yes, there is a continuing learning curve with any new interface, but the vast majority of computer users, whether at work or home, simply want/need to know how to get to a relatively small number of applications which they will use on a regular basis and that, to me, should be the primary driver for the design of any interface. Windows 11 seems to achieve that; and so does Windows 10, but with a more conventional design. Like it or not, fashion, design trends; and the influence of tablet/mobile computing have a strong influence.

Apologies if this upsets anyone - no offence is meant; and this is certainly not aimed at any individual member of this forum, but it seems that the most negative views of interface change are often expressed not by the 'elderly', or any other identifiable group, but by very knowledgable and experienced users both here and elsewhere, who have obviously invested much time gaining and applying their existing level of understanding and skill. Why? Could it be, at least in part, because some of their hard-earned knowledge seems now to have been suddenly undermined or threatened; and all that prior learning now needs to be re-examined and adjusted/updated simply because "someone else" has decided to move the goal posts? Sorry, but I think that's called life,

Well stated, and anyone who takes offense should probably take a few minutes / hours / weeks away from the forum to cool off a bit. But, eh.

unifex said:
I'm not sure what that has to do with age, but I can't imagine anyone finds this useful:

I don't understand the need for "Recommended" - here it's just wasted space (I realize people might like the "recent" lists, but why is it not optional and why should this section remain there and empty when the "recent" lists are turned off elsewhere in settings?) and I don't understand the search bar here which I will never use (again, I realize some people might like it here, but why is this mandatory, especially with anything search-related - the search service, cortana, etc, - being disabled either in services or in group policy?).

Now, the non-customizable app list is taken from bad phones - even on my restricted Sony Android I can group apps into "folders" (if anyone needs a reason to do that, think more than five apps and you'll get it).

So while there might not be such thing as a 'right" or "ideal" start menu, this thing is definitely "wrong".

I'm not sure why people don't hit the start button on the Keyboard and start typing to find apps.

OK, well, I do actually know - it's called personal preference. What you like ain't gonna be what everyone likes. Nor me. Nor anyone else.

Ernimus Prime said:
I'm 47. I still play PC games. And I'll probably keep playing PC games. Can't wait for Windows 11 release. Haven't been this excited since the release of Windows ME

50 and an avid gamer, when I can find the time.

Josey Wales said:
I went back to using the Windows 11 Start and removed Open Shell. There is no need to have to start menus, I found that I was using the default most of the time anyway.:)

Yeah, I search for apps, or have them pinned to the taskbar, for ones that I use daily.

Ghot said:
This next thing, I'm gonna hide under a spoiler, so MS doesn't see it and get any ideas.

What's next? A taskbar that only shows what MS wants, and a new icon to click, that shows what I put on the taskbar.

/edit

I like the bottom one better. Adding the "i", makes it blurry, instead of having a spoiler... tag.

You act like they haven't already done that?

I mean, Task Manager is gone from taskbar, so is the ability to lock and unlock it, and so many more things...all I can really do now is pin apps and open taskbar settings..... :lmao:

barman58 said:
There was an add-on Taskbar replacement a long time ago in a galaxy Far Far aw... oops it's OK I'm back, I think it was in the Windows 7 era, it was a movable point that when clicked opened to a wheel which had leaves around it (think of a daisy or sunflower) they when clicked either started an action or opened a set of sub options in another wheel menu ...

only thing I've seen anything like it is the Radial menu on Wacom Tablets

Strangely enough I also whilst looking for a suitable image

RadialMenu isn't just for Wacom anymore — Surface Pro Artist

UPDATE: Surface Pro 3's right pen button now calls up the radial menu correctly. See below. * * * * ORIGINAL POST One of the more popular recent additions to Wacom's Feeldriver is the radial menu, a handy set of shortcuts that can be called up with the click of a pen button.

www.surfaceproartist.com

I do remember redial menu, found it was not feasible for me with a mouse and KB. It wasn't until I got a game controller and started using radial menus in games that I could actually see the benefit of this type of menu, but I still prefer vertical / horizontal menus with a mouse / touchpad.

unifex · Sep 23, 2021

johnlgalt said:
I'm not sure why people don't hit the start button on the Keyboard and start typing to find apps.

How about I don't even have any start button on my keyboard? I have two buttons with old Windows logo on them, but if I press them nothing happens. On the other hand, yes, it's a matter of personal preference, but to me the main problem with the search is that I have to know what to search for and very often I don't. That's why visuals are much more convenient.

Ghot · Sep 23, 2021

johnlgalt said:
You act like they haven't already done that?

I mean, Task Manager is gone from taskbar, so is the ability to lock and unlock it, and so many more things...all I can really do now is pin apps and open taskbar settings.....

Well, I manually put the Task Manager, back on the Taskbar. MS ain't the boss of me.

sgage · Sep 23, 2021

Josey Wales said:
I am 73 and still play PC Games.

I am 66, and I have never played PC Games. To me, PC's (and what we called 'microcomputers' before IBM jumped in) are enough of a game. :party:

LeLibran · Sep 23, 2021

Whilst I don't find the 'new' Windows 11 TaskBar/Dock approach unsatisfactory, I do agree with others that it's not perfect and there is always room for improvements, e.g. adding some form of software categorisation rather than simply moving through Start > Pinned > All, and removing 'dead' space when the 'Recommended/Recently Used Options are disabled, so thought I'd look around for some possible way of enhancing what Microsoft looks pretty certain to provide at release, without the needing to install an alternative replacement for the 'official' Task Bar/Start Menu.

One possibly interesting option, which allows for some categorisation (10 Tabs) with up 310 program/file launch links is MaxLauncher. It's Open Source software which can be installed conventionally or run as a portable application; and is shown as compatible with XP (with .net 3.5) and later up to Windows 10, but it appears to work with no problem in Windows 11. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on the this Forum before, but for anyone who prefers quick point and click links for more than the Task bar and a single (part) screen of Pinned Apps, or wants to set up/use Keyboard Shortcuts it looks quite promising. For anyone who wants to take a look at the Screenshots and documentation, see: MaxLauncher

cineman195 · Sep 23, 2021

Ghot said:
Q: Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

MS probably thought that they have got it right all the times they have changed the Start menu !
Regards

Mystere · Sep 23, 2021

Berton said:
The nice thing about Linux is that most 'flavors' are Open Source, anyone with a better idea can use most of the source code to create what they would like to have.

You'd think... except that NIH syndrome is rampant.. Not Invented Here.

Nobody can stand using anyone elses code, unless it's a very base function that is so well understood that nobody wants to rewrite it (think standard libraries and specific functions)

Why is there no shared code among the different UI's, for instance (gnome, kde, etc..)

Berton · Sep 23, 2021

There is some commonality between the Linux versions and the Desktop Environments such as GNOME, Linux Mint has Cinnamon which I use. The main choice to make between the versions is whether to use Debian or RPM, I use Mint as it's Debian/Ubuntu based and for specific needs and have to choose software accordingly, a lot like what I had to do with Windows and Macintosh [before my MacBook Pro died].

Mystere · Sep 24, 2021

What does any of that have to do with your previous statement?

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