Windows Networking Rant

I don't think I'll ever truly understand why networking with Windows can be such a pain. Last night I was connecting to the drive on my Mini PC from my old desktop. I left it connected and the folder open. this morning I opend a second Windows Explorer so that I could view two different open folders side by side. Now I'm already accessing one folder but when I went to access the Mini PC to open the folder I wanted, I was greeted with a mesage that Network Discovery and File sharing was not turned on. I had to click to turn it on even though I was already connected to the Mini PC.

Yeah, have to agree. it's so hit or miss (and more miss than hit IMO) that it's deplorable.

As in the past about 10 years that I tried to make the home network (between PC's of the same or different Windows number) I had many, many similar problems! As my Fritzbox router offers a possibility to attach an USB3.x external drive, I decided not very long ago to stop trying. I now have a little but fine server online (SSD, space 256 GB, but more would be easily possible).

And all things I want to transfer from one PC to another I do by this server. Making a (daily) automatic backup from all (inportant) data by SyncBackFree, so that those files are available in a central place. Does not take much more energy (a separate server-PC would take a lot more) and is very convenient to use. I have no more file sharing switched on.

I really can recommend it, if you're having a router that you can attach an external drive to!

Kees said:

As in the past about 10 years that I tried to make the home network (between PC's of the same or different Windows number) I had many, many similar problems! As my Fritzbox router offers a possibility to attach an USB3.x external drive, I decided not very long ago to stop trying. I now have a little but fine server online (SSD, space 256 GB, but more would be easily possible).

And all things I want to transfer from one PC to another I do by this server. Making a (daily) automatic backup from all (inportant) data by SyncBackFree, so that those files are available in a central place. Does not take much more energy (a separate server-PC would take a lot more) and is very convenient to use. I have no more file sharing switched on.

I really can recommend it, if you're having a router that you can attach an external drive to!

Click to expand...

I use to do that when I was using a Netgear Wi-Fi Router and even that would occasionally not connect. I forget why and the fix. I would have to search the sister forums to find my post about the problem. Now I have the Comcast Wi-Fi 6 Modem, Router and Phone setup and it doesn't have a USB port on it. Plus the fact that that wouldn't serve my needs. I need access to the HDD on the Mini PC to add or update the files and folder on it from my desktop.

In that case I fear you will stay on having troubles. Maybe you could somewhere complain to Microsoft?

I never depend upon finding network computers through File Explorer because they rarely show up. Instead I make shortcuts on my desktops for all the computers in my home network. I am always able to access my computers using shortcuts as long as the computers are powered up and not asleep. Note I have 5 desktop and 3 laptop computers with various O/S on them including Windows XP, 7, 10, and 11.

I also have Comcast Internet. I have an Xfinity XB8 WiFi 6E gateway. I use my main desktop as a central place to store data. I also back up my main laptop through WiFi to an external HDD connect to that desktop. Backups through WiFi aren't too bad when the computers WiFi is fast.

All my machines run Pro and I find myself using RDP more and more these days even though my file sharing works most of the time. RDP is best thing since sliced bread for me, since I use 2 machines on my desk using only one monitor, keyboard, and mouse. When sharing works, it works well. But when it doesn't, it will drive you nuts. Despite setting up sharing correctly, some machines just don't like it.

glasskuter said:

All my machines run Pro and I find myself using RDP more and more these days even though my file sharing works most of the time. RDP is best thing since sliced bread for me, since I use 2 machines on my desk using only one monitor, keyboard, and mouse. When sharing works, it works well. But when it doesn't, it will drive you nuts. Despite setting up sharing correctly, some machines just don't like it.

Click to expand...

You have peaked my interest. But when reading the RDP page I was confronted by this, the wording is confusing (to me). I don’t quite get if they are discontinuing updates for RDP or just for RDP’s ability to work with AZURE (whatever that is)

We're no longer updating the Microsoft Remote Desktop app for Windows with new features and support for Azure Virtual Desktop will be removed in the future.
For the best Azure Virtual Desktop experience that includes the latest features and updates, we recommend you download the Windows Desktop client instead at Connect to Azure Virtual Desktop with the Remote Desktop client for Windows - Azure Virtual Desktop

Click to expand...

Source

Windows (maybe not S, and maybe not Home) has a built in Remote Desktop application that far pre-dates the one in the Microsoft Store.

Search your start menu for Remote Desktop Connection. Windows will usually suggest it by the time you finish typing Remote

johnlgalt said:

Windows (maybe not S, and maybe not Home) has a built in Remote Desktop applciation that far pre-dates the one in the Microsoft Store.

Click to expand...

Thanks, John

johnlgalt said:

Windows (maybe not S, and maybe not Home) has a built in Remote Desktop applciation that far pre-dates the one in the Microsoft Store.

Search your start menu for Remote Desktop Connection. Windows will usually suggest it by the time you finish typing Remote

View attachment 68581

Click to expand...

Thanks so much @johnlgalt (& @glasskuter ) it's the first time I have been able to connect to another PC on my network, EVER, in more than 30 years. RD gave me some grief connecting but it turns, apparently, from what I had to do, you have to have logged into a PC at least once using a password instead of a pin (at least in my case) once I had done that, all good.

It isn't ideal, I would much rather be able to see and connect to my PC's via File Explorer/Network but it's the next best thing.

@antspants Good you have an option. I never had understood why MS hasn't completely mastered networking. It usually works but in some machines, despite proper optioning, it's a pain in the butt. Like I said, when it works it works great...until it doesn't. Note that another option would be to try to access another computer by ip address or computer name. I used the ip address method for years before remote desktop.

Now I would like to suggest that you get that darn computer out of S mode. You are so limited what you can do in S mode and it's easy to convert to Windows Home.

glasskuter said:

@antspants Good you have an option. I never had understood why MS hasn't completely mastered networking.

Click to expand...

I know right, it kind of makes me laugh.

glasskuter said:

Now I would like to suggest that you get that darn computer out of S mode. You are so limited what you can do in S mode and it's easy to convert to Windows Home.

Switching out of S mode in Windows - Microsoft Support

Learn how to switch out of S mode to install apps from outside of the Microsoft Store or to upgrade to Windows 11.

support.microsoft.com

Click to expand...

I don't believe I am in S mode? I'll have a read of that link, thanks @glasskuter

EDIT: Nope, all good here.

antspants said:

reading the RDP page I was confronted by this, the wording is confusing (to me

Click to expand...

I haven't heard that but a little investigation revealed this article whose author's opinion is very well trusted. Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services' Days Are Numbered: Here's Why | Directions on Microsoft.

The way I read it is it will be supported until 2026. It's over my head when you talk about Azure so I may very well be mistaken. I don't even understand what the heck Azure is. But I read that article to say that although MS has made no announcement that Windows remote desktop is being discontinued, the author surmises it is being discontinued for Windows Server. It makes no mention of Windows consumer versions. I sure hope they don't mess with us.

antspants said:

I don't believe I am in S mode?

Click to expand...

Well! I must have had a brain fart. Where I got that you were running S mode, I haven't a clue. I am definitely slipping in my old age and this Texas heat wave isn't helping.
Sorry about that.

glasskuter said:

Well! I must have had a brain fart. Where I got that you were running S mode, I haven't a clue. I am definitely slipping in my old age and this Texas heat wave isn't helping.
Sorry about that.

Click to expand...

Yesterday I sent an email to eleven support linking them to a post on here about remote desktop. The reply was "WHAT?"

I thought I was emailing myself via a reply to an email to myself.. I simply explained in return, that I was an idiot lol

antspants said:

Thanks so much @johnlgalt (& @glasskuter ) it's the first time I have been able to connect to another PC on my network, EVER, in more than 30 years. RD gave me some grief connecting but it turns, apparently, from what I had to do, you have to have logged into a PC at least once using a password instead of a pin (at least in my case) once I had done that, all good.

It isn't ideal, I would much rather be able to see and connect to my PC's via File Explorer/Network but it's the next best thing.

Click to expand...

I gave up on using File Explorer/Network years ago because it is so unreliable. However, that hasn't stopped me from sharing files between all my computers. Note I have a number of computers with Windows XP, 7, 10 & 11. I have no problem sharing files between all of them. This process always works. I do the following:

I created a folder on my desktop called My Network.



I open that folder and create a shortcut to each computer in my network. For example, the shortcut to computer DarkMatter is \\DarkMattter.



Note once I create the folder My Network with all the shortcuts I don't have to repeat the process on all the other computers. I just copy the original folder My Network onto the desktops of all the other computers.

For example, starting with the laptop Starship with Windows 11 I double-click on the shortcut for the desktop Throrougbred with Windows XP.



I then see the shared folders on Thoroughbred.



If I repeat the process on the desktop Throrougbred with Windows XP and double-click on the shortcut
for the laptop Starship with Windows 11.



I then see the shared folders on Starship.

glasskuter said:

I don't even understand what the heck Azure is.

Click to expand...

Either do I. Nor do I care to search on it. I have enough running through my head.

MisterEd said:

I gave up on using File Explorer/Network years ago because it is so unreliable. However, that hasn't stopped me from sharing files between all my computers. Note I have a number of computers with Windows XP, 7, 10 & 11. I have no problem sharing files between all of them. This process always works. I do the following:

I created a folder on my desktop called My Network.

View attachment 68746

I open that folder and create a shortcut to each computer in my network. For example, the shortcut to computer DarkMatter is \\DarkMattter.

View attachment 68747

Note once I create the folder My Network with all the shortcuts I don't have to repeat the process on all the other computers. I just copy the original folder My Network onto the desktops of all the other computers.

For example, starting with the laptop Starship with Windows 11 I double-click on the shortcut for the desktop Throrougbred with Windows XP.

View attachment 68749

I then see the shared folders on Thoroughbred.

View attachment 68750

If I repeat the process on the desktop Throrougbred with Windows XP and double-click on the shortcut
for the laptop Starship with Windows 11.

View attachment 68753

I then see the shared folders on Starship.

View attachment 68752

Click to expand...

Thank you @MisterEd . I have seen you mention this process and was meaning to ask. I will have a look at this, this afternoon.

glasskuter said:

@antspants Good you have an option. I never had understood why MS hasn't completely mastered networking. It usually works but in some machines, despite proper optioning, it's a pain in the butt. Like I said, when it works it works great...until it doesn't. Note that another option would be to try to access another computer by ip address or computer name. I used the ip address method for years before remote desktop.

Now I would like to suggest that you get that darn computer out of S mode. You are so limited what you can do in S mode and it's easy to convert to Windows Home.

Switching out of S mode in Windows - Microsoft Support

Learn how to switch out of S mode to install apps from outside of the Microsoft Store or to upgrade to Windows 11.

support.microsoft.com

Click to expand...

That's not the actual issue. Networking works, and it works great - in enterprise products. NT Server and all of it's gernerational offspring would not be in as much use today if networking was like what we end users have to deal with.

No, the issue is not that networking doesn't work all the time. It works as it is supposed to - until something else comes along and breaks it.

The issue is that Windows for home users has too many other 'features' that make it easier to use, and thus, break things that should be working out of box.

The vast majority of networking issues that people bring up are being unable to connected to another PC and being able to connect to wireless. And yet, Windows, by default, is set to turn of NICs when it is perceived to be not in use - discounting the fact that abruptly terminating a connection can disrupt the drivers of said NIC if not handled correctly. But we have stupid things like Fast User Switching, Fast Startup, seamless user switching, fast shutdown, hybrid hibernation, partial sleep modes, and more built into the OS, all of which, at one point or another, get in the way of what the device is supposed to do for most people - talk to other devices.

They have networking down pat- it's all the other BS that they keep trying to add / enhance that breaks what actually works.

glasskuter said:

I haven't heard that but a little investigation revealed this article whose author's opinion is very well trusted. Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services' Days Are Numbered: Here's Why | Directions on Microsoft.

Click to expand...

This is not the RDP that we use as home users. This is other stuff - think Remote Assistance.

Customers use the RDS role to provide virtual or session desktops to remote users. Many use RDS to host virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI) in their own datacenters or through third-party hosting.

Click to expand...

Customers. As in companies, not individuals.

These days, Microsoft's preferred solution for these kinds of tasks is its own hosted service, Azure Virtual Desktop (AVD). Microsoft only enables multi-session editions of Windows client on AVD, not RDS. Multi-session support allows customers to host VDI with fewer resources, and without access to multi-session editions of Windows client, Windows Server is the only multi-session option for in RDS. But Microsoft is limiting support for Microsoft 365 Apps for enterprise on Windows Server, which affects on-premises RDS customers directly.

Click to expand...

Yeah, so they are basically gearing up to start forcing companies to start using AVD, which is probably a segue to start actually buying licenses for and using Windows 365.

glasskuter said:

I don't even understand what the heck Azure is.

Click to expand...

antspants said:

Either do I. Nor do I care to search on it. I have enough running through my head.

Click to expand...

Microsoft's Cloud Services - like Amazon has AWS (among others) and Google has Google Cloud, Microsoft has Azure.