Building new system - want to END UP with Windows 11

Yes, there are several boxes sitting on the shelf next to me, including a 12900 CPU, just waiting for the motherboard that's taking longer to get here than planned...

As far as entertainment - it's kinda like saying something is "interesting"... Doesn't mean it's interesting GOOD or interesting BAD. Same with entertainment!

Slavic said:

Yes, if your new machine has Alder Lake CPU, you definitely should install Windows 11 directly and then tune the UI if you don't like its current look, as many of us have done. Because if you install Windows 10, you will have to upgrade to 11 soon or later anyway.

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That wold be around four years from now.

BunnyJ said:

That wold be around four years from now.

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or longer

The-Hive said:

or longer

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About 4 years or so.. well say 3 years.

bobkn said:

Perhaps with something other than a Gen12 Intel CPU, so there is no concern about support for the new architecture.

Maybe 11 is still the best choice, as it appears to be supplying "GracieAllen" a lot of entertainment.

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Windows 10 is fully supported for another 3 years. You think MS will not add to it whatever for 12th gen CPUs and keep it current for the next 3 years?

NavyLCDR said:

Windows 10 is fully supported for another 3 years. You think MS will not add to it whatever for 12th gen CPUs and keep it current for the next 3 years?

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I have no knowledge of that.

However, I can imagine MS using Gen12 support as a lever to drive people to Windows 11. (Counter argument: support of Gen12 CPUs in the corporate world, where Windows 11 may not be adopted for years.)

I don't get the big deal with not having task manager as a right click option on the taskbar. What's wrong with right clicking the Start button? Do that and there it is. Or even use the Win-X shortcut.

Dch48 said:

I don't get the big deal with not having task manager as a right click option on the taskbar. What's wrong with right clicking the Start button? Do that and there it is. Or even use the Win-X shortcut.

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Some people find interface changes infuriating, even if no functionality is lost. (I'm not one of those.)

It's not just "lost" functionality. It's functionality that is, for NO overriding reason, made more DIFFICULT or CUMBERSOME to use. Go try attaching to a different network and tell me "it's not a big deal".

Mostly it'll get worked-around, or 3rd party products will help restore some of the productivity, but in what world is it a good idea to make a user interface LESS user friendly and usable than it's predecessor?

It's actually a conspiracy by the mouse manufacturers. (Does MS still sell mice? They haven't made one I've liked in many years.)

A lot of stuff that could be done with a single click in the past now requires two or more. Much faster wear.

So it's the fault of "big mouse"? OK, I'll buy that! I thought it MIGHT be some evil tablet conspiracy, but yeah, "big mouse" makes sense!

OK, back to the installation...... And yeah, I KNOW this is hardware, but I figure y'all have seen this kind of weird stuff...

Motherboard for the 12900 build showed up this afternoon. I tested it on the bench and it's working. So, I'm putting things in the case, and I ran into THIS. I THINK my reading comprehension is reasonably good, but this one has me a touch confused (the motherboard is an MSI Z690 Tomahawk, and the case is a Phanteks Enthoo Pro):

The PWM hub functions optimally when modulated by a PWM signal from the motherboard, which will allow the greatest control range. However, not all 4-pin motherboard connectors implement the PWM signal modulation. (OK, MAKES SENSE SO FAR)

Connecting the 4-pin to CPU_FAN

For full PWM functionality, Phanteks’ PWM hub requires users to connect the 4-pin connector to the “CPU_Fan” connector of the motherboard, because all motherboard manufacturers implements a PWM signal modulation on this connector. Connect the SATA 12V power to power the PWM hub. Not all motherboards have their CPU_Fan connector set on PWM signal modulation by default. Please consult your motherboard documentation for this matter.

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OK, so it wants me to unplug the fan on the tower cooler that’s currently plugged into the “CPU FAN” connector, and replace THAT with a 4-wire cable from the “fan hub”. And I PRESUME plug THAT fan into a SYS FAN connector… I have the second fan from the tower cooler in SYS FAN1, and this one can go into SYS FAN 2. Right?

AND, there’s a “Power” cable that comes off the fan hub with a SATA power connector, so I can connect that. Is the CASE now going to run ALL the system fans in PWM mode based on the CPU? Temperature, instead of ME setting fans in PWM mode in the BIOS? The CPU FAN and pump fan are PWM, but all the others (1-6 SYS FAN are DC by default, BUT CAN BE SET TO PWM MODE)…

HERE'S the piece that got me…

Connecting the 4-pin to other 4-pin header (besides the CPU_Fan)

Other 4-pin connectors can be found on modern motherboards besides the “CPU_Fan” connector (e.g. “CPU_Fan2”, “CHA_Fan”, “OPT_Fan”), however not all motherboard manufacturers implement a true PWM signal modulation onto these connectors. These type of 4-pin connectors modulate the RPM by voltage, which has a smaller control range compared to modulation by true PWM signal.

The 12V SATA power cable can not be used to power the PWM hub if connecting to these types of 4-pin connectors, due to the interference with the RPM regulation by voltage (resulting in the fans running on full RPM). The PWM hub will draw its power from the 4-pin connector, which is limited to a total device consuming 30W in total.

Important Note:

1 motherboard connector can only read 1 RPM signal. Therefore, the motherboard will only read the RPM signal from 1 device connected to Fan 1. The RPM form all other devices will be regulated according to FAN 1. Y-splitter should not be connected to FAN 1.

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Does THIS part want me to plug the 4-pin connector into some OTHER fan port? And NOT use the 12V SATA cable? I PRESUME the first option, where I plug the fan hub into the CPU FAN port is the better one?

The OTHER system fans (fans blowing in on the front, out on the back and out the top) are all plugged into this hub, but I COULD plug them into other fan ports. Is there any reason NOT to use this hub? Are all the fan speeds going to get set based on the CPU temp? And is that normal and a good idea?
OR, is this whole thing something not relevant and I should just plug ALL the fans into various SYS FAN ports, and go into the BIOS and set the various fans to PWM?

GracieAllen said:

The OTHER system fans (fans blowing in on the front, out on the back and out the top) are all plugged into this hub, but I COULD plug them into other fan ports. Is there any reason NOT to use this hub? Are all the fan speeds going to get set based on the CPU temp? And is that normal and a good idea?
OR, is this whole thing something not relevant and I should just plug ALL the fans into various SYS FAN ports, and go into the BIOS and set the various fans to PWM?

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Generally, it's best not to add things to the system that aren't needed. Less things to introduce possible problems.
If it were me, I would plug the CPU fan(s) into their connectors on the motherboard, and the same for the case fans and the sysfan connectors.

The PWM Hub is only there in case you NEED a central location to attach the various fan wires, or in case your BIOS
doesn't have individual PWM fan controls. Your BIOS probably allows you PWM control of ALL the fans.

Fortunately, your motherboard has the CPU fan(s) connectors and the sys fans connectors well located, around the edges.
With that motherboard, you shouldn't NEED the PWM Hub.



IF you want the case fans speed to be adjustable, you will need to check your BIOS on the Hardware Monitor tab.
Most modern motherboards allow you full control of the speeds of ALL the fans, not just the CPU fan(s).

Unfortunately, your motherboard manual doesn't show all the BIOS settings, so you will have to actually check in the BIOS, to see what fan controls you DO have.



Just as an example... AMD hasn't come out with a 600 series chipset, yet. But even the 400 and 500 series AMD chipsets (on decent motherboards), have full control of ALL the fans in a computer.

I agree with Ghot. Forget the hub.

Just connect the CPU fan to the CPU_Fan connector on the motherboard and no other connector. Many times the system will not boot unless a fan isn't connect to that outlet. The others can be used for case fans, etc.

Took alls y'all advice, and moved the fans to CPU and SysFan headers. I put the PUSH fan from the Noctua D15 on the CPU Fan header, and the PULL fan from the D15 on Sys Fan1. Both of those allow PWM control. SysFan2 is the top fan blowing out, and it's also PWM. The other 2 case fans (rear pushing out and front pushing in) are on SysFan 5 and 6 and they're DC.

I've set the smart fan control for everybody to ramp from about 15-20% at 25C to 100% at 80C for PWM, and 3.4-4V at 20C to 12V at 80C. Let me know if I need to change the way the fans are set... Higher flow from the 200mm front fan? Faster ramp for the CPU fans? Whatever.

It all sounds good to me. Personally I have a front intake fan that is connected straight to the power supply. It's the only one that is and it came that way when I bought the computer. I think it's because it has a blue LED light in it. Or maybe it's because the original Gigabyte motherboard only had one Sys fan header. I have upgraded the computer by swapping out the motherboard, CPU, memory, and GPU but kept the case and power supply. My new board is the MSI B550-A Pro. It has 6 Sys fan headers but I'm only using one for the rear exhaust fan. It runs at a constant 850 rpm and I don't mess with that. My CPU fan is connected to the CPU fan header and is a single fan on my Cooler Master Hyper T4 cooler. So that's it for fans. One intake, one exhaust, CPU fan, dual fans on the GPU that only kick on when the CPU temp exceeds 55C, and the fan in the power supply. The system runs very cool and quiet. The CPU fan never goes higher than 1800 rpm and runs at about 900 at idle. Even when gaming, the CPU never goes above 65C and the GPU very rarely even hits 60. Both idle in the low 30's. Case temps stay in the 30's and 40's.

I highly recommend the Noctua NA-SYC1 Chromax Y cable. (Two 4 pin PWM fans can be controlled simultaneously via one PWM fan header; RPM speed signal of one fan is transmitted to the motherboard for monitoring) I used it for my case fans but it works for cpu fans as well. Noctua fans, coolers, and cables are the best there is. You chose well.

glasskuter said:

I highly recommend the Noctua NA-SYC1 Chromax Y cable. (Two 4 pin PWM fans can be controlled simultaneously via one PWM fan header; RPM speed signal of one fan is transmitted to the motherboard for monitoring) I used it for my case fans but it works for cpu fans as well.

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I use three of these (non-Chromax version) to run 6 fans off three headers, 1 cpu and 2 sys_fan. All speed controlled based on CPU temp using Asus Q-Fan.

Dch48 said:

I don't get the big deal with not having task manager as a right click option on the taskbar. What's wrong with right clicking the Start button? Do that and there it is. Or even use the Win-X shortcut.

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Some people are very complacent. I get very upset when supermarkets change the aisles where they have their products. They only do it as a trick to get people into compulsive buying.