Microsoft operates planned obsolescence for Windows 11

hake · Saturday at 5:04 AM

A year ago, I bought a reconditioned Dell desktop. It was powered by an Intel 7th generation processor. At the time it was compatible with Windows 11 22H2. Earlier this year, I discovered that this system would not update to 23H2, even though my hardware has TPM2.0 and other required features. I found that Windows 11 22H2 next October (2024) will lose support and so lose security updates. I reverted to Windows 10 so it can keep updated till October 2025..

The great thing about Windows 10 is that migration from Windows 7 and 8.1 was frequently possible and has been a boon to many non-techie/home Windows users. Many will remain with unsupported Windows 10 systems after end-of-support because of this barrier. The cynic in me says that MS has a financial stake in making hardware obsolete. It also makes great play about being environmentally responsible. Hundreds of millions of obsolete devices will soon be on their way to land-fill because of MS's policy. I can understand that MS has been financially hampered by allowing version upgradeable systems which run on older hardware and it is now trying to recoup lost revenue.

Evaluation of Linux tells me that Linux is a much better bet for non-techie/home users. My version of Ubuntu meets end-of-life in 2032. It runs beautifully on a 2006 Toshiba Satellite Pro P200 and it's secure.

Microsoft is effectively a monopoly and is now using it to force home users to conform to its will. Windows is feature rich but most of those features are of little value to home users.

antspants · Saturday at 5:57 AM

hake said:
Microsoft is effectively a monopoly

Yes. That’s the objective, perfectly normal for a conglomerate/multi industry company to want to achieve. It’s a business, not a charity.

hake said:
using it to force home users to conform to its will

We all have choices. Apple Macs are still a thing. So is Linux. But wait, they all want you to use their design, the way they design it also.

And yes, you’re probably right. Microsoft wants everyone at the point of owning an AI capable machine. There is money in data and that’s the objective.

cereberus · Saturday at 7:06 AM

hake said:
A year ago, I bought a reconditioned Dell desktop. It was powered by an Intel 7th generation processor. At the time it was compatible with Windows 11 22H2. Earlier this year, I discovered that this system would not update to 23H2, even though my hardware has TPM2.0 and other required features. I found that Windows 11 22H2 next October (2024) will lose support and so lose security updates. I reverted to Windows 10 so it can keep updated till October 2025..

The great thing about Windows 10 is that migration from Windows 7 and 8.1 was frequently possible and has been a boon to many non-techie/home Windows users. Many will remain with unsupported Windows 10 systems after end-of-support because of this barrier. The cynic in me says that MS has a financial stake in making hardware obsolete. It also makes great play about being environmentally responsible. Hundreds of millions of obsolete devices will soon be on their way to land-fill because of MS's policy. I can understand that MS has been financially hampered by allowing version upgradeable systems which run on older hardware and it is now trying to recoup lost revenue.

Evaluation of Linux tells me that Linux is a much better bet for non-techie/home users. My version of Ubuntu meets end-of-life in 2032. It runs beautifully on a 2006 Toshiba Satellite Pro P200 and it's secure.

Microsoft is effectively a monopoly and is now using it to force home users to conform to its will. Windows is feature rich but most of those features are of little value to home users.

What a load of codswallop. Of course versions of Windows 11 become out of date but get updated by next annual update e.g. 24H2 etc.

Nobody is forcing you to use Windows.

I suggest you learn how to use an abacus and pen and paper - very cheap and no monopoly.

XxXxX · Saturday at 7:52 AM

@hake
i have just returned to Windows from Linux after using Ubuntu for nearly 20 years, 04.10 to 24.04, as Ubuntu have now got far more restrictive then Windows. at least with Windows i can alter the system to my requirements where Ubuntu has restricted that avenue. i have looked at other Linux distro but if i am going to change operating systems then i may as well go the whole hog and use Windows as my wife's system is Windows. so now both computers are at least running the same operating system which makes it easier to keep both in operating order.

you can upgrade Windows 11 using a Rufus bootable Windows USB and using the 'setup' file within that Rufus Windows USB drive.

there are always choices it just depends on what you want to choose.
Best of luck in your endeavours. Steve ..

exploder · Saturday at 8:19 AM

Recently, I have been installing Windows 11 on 10 plus year old unsupported systems with very good results. I had a closet full of old systems and my Wife wants the space, lol. Currently you can easily bypass the system requirements and in my opinion, this will likely remain for Windows 11. Microsoft did not like the bad press Windows 11 received because of these requirements. I do however think Windows 12 will not be like this when it arrives.

So far, I have Windows 11 installed on two Dell Precision T5600's and an AMD FX 6300 system I built some years ago. I still have a T3600 to fix up, but it should be fine. I know what you're thinking, an FX 6300, really? It was built in a really nice case with nice RGB fans during the chip shortage and it actually runs pretty darn fast!

Truth be told, these systems required quite a bit of tweaking to meet my standards. I will not sell a computer that I would not be happy to use myself. That has always been my policy. Also, Windows 10 support runs out next year. Most people looking for an inexpensive computer would like their system to at least last a few years. Let's face it, the economy isn't all that great and most people just can't afford to buy a new computer right now.

Again, in my opinion, Microsoft would like the majority of people on Windows 11 and 12, when it arrives in 2025. This would leave them with Windows 11 to support and 12 to support and apply new features to. Microsoft left ways to install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware and this was not an oversight on their part. You do have to roll up your sleeves and put some effort into these installs, but the end result is worth it to me.

I know some are thinking, why not just install Linux on these older systems? Personally, most of my own computers do run Linux but most people only know Windows. One of my son's actually runs older games in Steam on a very overclocked AMD FX 6100 system I pulled out of the closet. His much newer system failed, and he could not afford a new computer.

I have had no issues updating any of these systems so far and you can do an in-place upgrade using the iso.

antspants · Saturday at 8:43 AM

exploder said:
I know some are thinking, why not just install Linux on these older systems?

Many members, myself included, have windows 11 installed on 10 year old machines, my main PC is 10 years old as it one of my laptops I have, both running Windows 11.

There are members here with machines older than 10 years that are running Win 11. Linux is boring.

Berton · Saturday at 8:53 AM

antspants said:
Many members, myself included, have windows 11 installed on 10 year old machines, my main PC is 10 years old as it one of my laptops I have, both running Windows 11.

There are members here with machines older than 10 years that are running Win 11. Linux is boring.

I have Win11 23H2 on 2 Notebooks from 2014, seem to be just fine. Also have Linux Mint but when one of the hundred or so varieties available gets my attention I will try it on a LiveUSB.

maur0 · Saturday at 9:04 AM

I'm using 11 24h2 IoT Enterprise in which I removed Defender and removed all CPU mitigations on an Ivy Bridge from 2013 and it's working perfectly, PC flying much faster than using Win10
I even activated the classic theme and it looked like Win98
This Windows is supported at least until 2036

Rollback_Jockey · Saturday at 9:10 AM

If i get really bored with windows i'll have a dig in my loft and unearth something running TOS 3.06.

glasskuter · Saturday at 10:50 AM

XxXxX said:
you can upgrade Windows 11 using a Rufus bootable Windows USB and using the 'setup' file within that Rufus Windows USB drive

True. But one does not even have to make a usb drive unless they plan to do a clean install. To upgrade, just download the iso, mount it in windows, and select setup.exe.

hake said:
Intel 7th generation processor. At the time it was compatible with Windows 11 22H2. I discovered that this system would not update to 23H2,

What processor do you have? As far as I know only the following 7th gen Intel processors are the same compatible ones as a year ago. Are you sure Windows 11 wasn't installed using the incompatible hardware work-around?

Intel®	Core™	i7-7800X
Intel®	Core™	i7-7820HQ[1]
Intel®	Core™	i7-7820X

See this thread. Try the enablement package.

Windows 11 23H2 upgrade likely possible on unsupported PC

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-23h2-upgrade-likely-possible-on-unsupported-pc-cputpm-requirements-not-met/

www.elevenforum.com

Josey Wales · Saturday at 11:02 AM

To use Windows 11 or any other OS is the choice of the user. If someone does not like Windows 11 then they are free to use whatever floats their boat. I like Windows 11 or I would not be using it, but at the same time I do not care for Microsoft's business practices . That being said, if someone does want to use Apple, Linux or any other OS, it is their choice and does not bother me at all. I use Linux on another device.

Jabiru · Saturday at 11:05 AM

Yeah, I have to agree to a point here. Time to get on my soapbox. While we, as users, have become somewhat dependent on computers and our choice of functional capabilities, we have become slaves to the corporate infrastructure producing those capabilities. Computers and our functional use of the "tools" is by demand evolutionary and in some respects revolutionary. In the end, these changes have and should continue to be in the best interest of the users, or there's no market. I as a user would hate to still be using Windows 95, or any evolutionary version (98, Vista, XP, 7, 8.x, 10 etc). Some of them were (arguably) good at the time, but the functionally and stability of Windows 11 is far better. The operating systems developed by Microsoft, and frankly any OS developer leverages the requirements (admittedly not all) of the users, and the evolutionary hardware available at the time. In the case of Windows 11 the major "functional" dependency was security (TPM & Secure Boot) witch became a much bigger problem that had to be addressed (not necessarily solved). In the case of Windows 12, a new capability arises in the form of AI (a much longer discussion). In order for this functional capability to be leveraged on a local machine, some hardware manufacturers have developed an NPU chip for the motherboard. (a PnP solution might have been a better approach, but maybe not as efficient). With the Win10->Win 11 move the use of a TPM was a hard requirement, while the AI capability is not. If the user must have a high level of AI capability then an NPU is certainly necessary but it does not prevent the user from using their computer. We as users benefit from this evolutionary process and should embrace it.

Users are also free to move to another ecosystem. MacOS is a fine OS and (arguably) functionally in some regards superior to the Windows ecosystem. I personally find MacOS to be somewhat restricted in the user's ability to "tweak" it which Windows excels at. Linux is another option, it's a tweakers paradise, users can change pretty much anything they want, and there's a huge community out there to help in that regard. Linux also lends itself the ability to fork into pretty much anything a user might want. I've tried Linux several times over the years, but I have always returned to Windows mostly because of the vast numbers of applications available which are either not available in Linux or not as well defined or functional in Linux.

Let's remember Microsoft is a business and with the many-millions of computers around the world using their software they cannot effectively support multiple versions of an OS. As a part of the evolutionary process of developing and supporting an OS, there are limits. Does this process cause in increase of "E-Trash"? probably, but it can be recycled. In the end we all pay for it one way or another.

This is not to say Windows is not without it's own problems. There are functions I've never been able to get to work as advertised (Phone link with iPhones as an example) and there are many more, but overall, I can live with them. I haven't found anything better. You are free to move to another OS, please do, but try complaining to the Linux community I think you may be surprised at their reaction to your complaints, or even Apple who has historically remained silent to pretty much any feedback.

Josey Wales · Saturday at 11:20 AM

I am a Huge Sports fan and I do not like the owners of some of the teams that I follow but I admire the players on those teams and for me the same goes for Windows 11.

RD Mercer · Saturday at 12:19 PM

hake said:
The cynic in me says that MS has a financial stake in making hardware obsolete.

I've always believed this, but it's just my opinion, also a lot of browsers and software have followed MS. Heck, 99% of all I do is window shop and browsing, maybe I could my old MS-DOS 6.22 out and see if I can get it to install some drivers for my network card. :lmao:

Bree · Saturday at 12:25 PM

hake said:
A year ago, I bought a reconditioned Dell desktop. It was powered by an Intel 7th generation processor. At the time it was compatible with Windows 11 22H2. Earlier this year, I discovered that this system would not update to 23H2, even though my hardware has TPM2.0 and other required features.

As Glasskuter says, 7th gen Intel processors are, with one exception unsupported CPUs for Windows 11, the minimum spec has always been 8th gen or higher. The only exceptions are:

Intel®	Core™	i7-7800X
Intel®	Core™	i7-7820HQ[1]
Intel®	Core™	i7-7820X

Windows processor requirements Windows 11, version 22H2 & 23H2 supported Intel processors

This specification details the Intel processors that can be used with Windows 11, version 22H2 & 23H2 customer systems that include Windows products, including custom images.

learn.microsoft.com

Unless you have an i7-7800X/7820X then whoever supplied the Windows 11 on your PC used a workaround. As you have found, although you'll get all the cumulative updates through Windows Update, an unsupported device will not be offered a Feature Update to the next version. But as you are already on 22H2, then you can upgrade manually to 23H2 without the need for any workaround just by installing the Enablement Package.

KB5027397 Enablement Package for Windows 11 version 23H2 Feature Update

Microsoft Support: Summary Windows 11, versions 22H2 and 23H2 share a common core operating system with an identical set of system files. Therefore, the new features in Windows 11, version 23H2 are included in the latest monthly quality update for Windows 11, version 22H2 but are in an inactive...

www.elevenforum.com

I have several unsupported devices, one of which is currently running the Insider Preview for Windows 11 24H2 on a 1st gen i5.

glasskuter · Saturday at 12:31 PM

Some very intelligent points and comparisons made. As I said, we all complain when MS changes something on us, takes away a feature we've been using for years, or make our equipment obsolete in fitting their requirements. We're all in the same boat. But it's business. (Basically I have one major peeve and most of you knows what that it is but at the end of the day, my opinion won't change a darn thing.)
MS can't please everyone, nor can those of us mostly happy in our use of Windows change the minds of those who aren't.

exploder · Saturday at 12:32 PM

I can't comment on the suitability of Linux for home users who don't want to have to know much about maintaining their PC's OS.

These days I recommend Debian and go with Flatpak's for apps the user wants to have current versions of. A few Gnome extensions and it looks as good as Windows 11. Debian is known for quality and reliability. Linux Mint is also very good. LTS releases are always best. in my opinion. I have NEVER had a Debian system break from updates, ever.

The OS is just a tool to run your apps, nothing more. Windows and Linux each have their good points.

pseymour · Saturday at 12:56 PM

cereberus said:
I suggest you learn how to use an abacus and pen and paper - very cheap and no monopoly.

Sounds like someone is out here shilling for the fat cats at Big Abacus!

kelper · Saturday at 2:06 PM

hake said:
A year ago, I bought a reconditioned Dell desktop. It was powered by an Intel 7th generation processor. At the time it was compatible with Windows 11 22H2. Earlier this year, I discovered that this system would not update to 23H2, even though my hardware has TPM2.0 and other required features. I found that Windows 11 22H2 next October (2024) will lose support and so lose security updates. I reverted to Windows 10 so it can keep updated till October 2025..

The great thing about Windows 10 is that migration from Windows 7 and 8.1 was frequently possible and has been a boon to many non-techie/home Windows users. Many will remain with unsupported Windows 10 systems after end-of-support because of this barrier. The cynic in me says that MS has a financial stake in making hardware obsolete. It also makes great play about being environmentally responsible. Hundreds of millions of obsolete devices will soon be on their way to land-fill because of MS's policy. I can understand that MS has been financially hampered by allowing version upgradeable systems which run on older hardware and it is now trying to recoup lost revenue.

Evaluation of Linux tells me that Linux is a much better bet for non-techie/home users. My version of Ubuntu meets end-of-life in 2032. It runs beautifully on a 2006 Toshiba Satellite Pro P200 and it's secure.

Microsoft is effectively a monopoly and is now using it to force home users to conform to its will. Windows is feature rich but most of those features are of little value to home users.

@hake

If it runs Win 10 it should be possible to install 22H3 by using the reg file here

Bypass Windows 11 System Requirements Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to bypass the Windows 11 CPU, RAM, Secure Boot, storage, and TPM 2.0 system requirements allowing you to upgrade to Windows 11 from a Windows 10 PC that doesn't meet these requirements. Installing Windows 11 on a device that does not meet Windows 11 minimum...

www.elevenforum.com

Or by downloading the ISO from Microsoft and using Rufus to bypass the CPU requirement.

Message me if you want one on one live advice.

Berton · Saturday at 2:22 PM

kelper said:
If it runs Win 10 it should be possible to install 22H3 by using the reg file here

I have 23H2 on 2 Notebooks from 2014, upgraded over Win10 using a 'tweaked USB'. Only issue so far is a bit longer getting loaded to the log-in screen using 500GB HDDs. I did use hardware-cloned drives so can go back to Win10 when desired.