Microsoft operates planned obsolescence for Windows 11

erpster4 · Saturday at 4:11 PM

exploder said:
So far, I have Windows 11 installed on two Dell Precision T5600's and an AMD FX 6300 system I built some years ago. I still have a T3600 to fix up, but it should be fine. I know what you're thinking, an FX 6300, really? It was built in a really nice case with nice RGB fans during the chip shortage and it actually runs pretty darn fast!

I wonder what kind of cpu cooler you have for that amd FX 6300 cpu, exploder.
hope it's big & strong one (and with a quiet fan)

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/tg0506/what_is_the_good_cpu_cooler_for_an_fx6300

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/51ks1k/amd_fx_6300_cooler_options

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/52ioic/amd_fx6300_stock_cooler_super_loud_runs_at_3k4k

FDretired · Saturday at 4:55 PM

I have 3 operating systems on 3 SSD.

1) Windows 11
2) Windows Insider
3) Ubuntu Cinnamon.

1) I spend >95% of my time on windows 11
2) I occasionally check window insider. I also use it to
test new programs, eg. Imaging programs.
3) With Ubuntu, I only use Firefox.

When I am in a mood simply to read only news from my
large number of websites, MSM and Alternate media,
I would go to Linux and not be distracted.

I find the font is better in Ubuntu than Windows 11.
It is not boring. It is like reading a paper newspaper
or a magazine

TechnoMage2021 · Saturday at 6:28 PM

Years ago, someone coined the expression, "Computer Ignorant". The reason for that expression is still quite obvious.

I read some of the most ridiculous comments, like "I can't install Windows 11 on my laptop", and things like that.

Everyone can't be a computer Guru, and that's why we have Computer Stores and PC Repair shops.

After fixing peoples computer problems, I've retired, but I'm still fixing PC's for people, all over the world.

My 12 year old AMD FX 6350 is now very happily running Windows 11/Pro/64, 24H2, and is as happy as a pig in a mud hole.

NO, I didn't rely on a MS Update! I never have, in 40+ years.
I not only change OS's but I change my HD or SSD at the same time. I keep my old OS and data, safe as I set up and run a new drive with the new OS.

Right now, on this 12 Yr old PC, I'm running three different OS's on three separate drives. The F12 key, on boot, allows me to boot up to my old drive with 22H2 on it. Or, Win-10/Pro/x86. If I do nothing but turn on the Power to my PC, it will boot up, my newest Crucial SSD, in around 10 Sec's to Windows 24H2, lightened by Rufus, and installed from a Flash Drive.

What CPU cooler do I use? OH, I still use the Cooler that came with the AMD FX-6350 chip, years ago. I do clean and re-oil it periodically.

Recently, I did go into the Bios on this old Gigabyte motherboard, and I changed the DDR3 RAM, CAS Latency from 11 to 9, and picked up a bit more performance out of this old system.

I don't expect every user to know how to do these things that I do, because I fixed computer for 40+ years, but any decent Computer shop should know how. Pick up the phone and give'em a call.

TM

BobOmb · Saturday at 6:34 PM

The reseller knew the machine wasnt supported by Windows 11 and used a workaround to make it more attractve to you.

General advice to people: We have one year left.. Upgrade now before everyone else is trying to do it at the same time last minute

TechnoMage2021 · Saturday at 6:50 PM

Even simpler....

If you enjoy what you have today, don't let MS screw with it!!!
Shut OFF MS updates, sit back and enjoy what you've got.

Without MS screwing around with it, it may just last as long as you do. Eh?

Dirtyflash · Saturday at 7:07 PM

BobOmb said:
General advice to people: We have one year left.. Upgrade now before everyone else is trying to do it at the same time last minute

I don't think we will have too much to worry about, most people will think they will need to buy a new computer. There's going to be some wonderful deals on what were known as Windows 10 devices.

RD Mercer · Saturday at 7:12 PM

TechnoMage2021 said:
Even simpler....

If you enjoy what you have today, don't let MS screw with it!!!
Shut OFF MS updates, sit back and enjoy what you've got.

Without MS screwing around with it, it may just last as long as you do. Eh?

I agree! I’ve been running LTSB for a long time, it’s the closest to 7 you can get “in my opinion”. I have all the 11 versions from Tiny 11 on up, but I always seem to settle back down on LTSB, it’s just been flawless.

TraderGary · Saturday at 7:39 PM

TechnoMage2021 said:
Even simpler....

If you enjoy what you have today, don't let MS screw with it!!!
Shut OFF MS updates, sit back and enjoy what you've got.

Without MS screwing around with it, it may just last as long as you do. Eh?

I couldn't, in good conscience, recommend that anyone turn off security updates.

antspants · Saturday at 10:29 PM

TraderGary said:
I couldn't, in good conscience, recommend that anyone turn off security updates.

Either would I. It’s daft advice.

Dark Knight · Saturday at 11:39 PM

I have to say I have to agree with hake to a certain extent.

Listen, I have no qualms with anyone or any entity making a profit , but we all know that Windows 11 could have been made available for the majority of the masses, the amount of machines running unsupported right now more than likely out weigh those that are supported at this point and Microsoft knows this which is why they put the new cpu restrictions on 23H2, there are too many running 11 on OLD cpu's and they can't have that. That right there shows that this is nothing more than a money grab by Microsoft and it's vendors.

And Microsoft being environmentally responsible? well, he is right, millions if not billions of systems are going to wind up in tech dumps needlessly. Problem is , no one cares because no one lives near or around any of these dumps , in the U.S. we try to recycle most of that stuff, but a lot of it still makes it way to landfills.... third world countries don't have the resources to recycle this stuff and it's poisoning their environments.... out of sight, out of mind I guess?

Yeah, was hake taken for a ride? probably so, was it intentional? probably not, because I don't think anyone saw the new cpu restrictions coming for 23H2. But it is all needless, it's just an effort to make an already multi billion dollar company even richer.

Yeah , yeah, we can switch to mac, linux and yada, yada , yada, and alot of us will, most of us will remain on 10 . The proof will be in October of next year when Windows 11 market share will still be in the crapper , it will be then Microsoft will have to make a hard decision.

A lot of us see this for what it is and it doesn't sit well with the majority, no one is asking for a free OS , if you have to charge for it fine, just make one everyone can use with their current equipment, within reason.
And the last line of his post .....

Windows is feature rich but most of those features are of little value to home users.

He is right.

pseymour · Sunday at 12:21 AM

Dark Knight said:
... we all know that Windows 11 could have been made available for the majority of the masses

Could have, but why? For example, make a version of the code that works with TPM 2 and one without? Then more versions that need the POPCNT instruction and ones that don't? What a support hassle, dealing with those circumstances and branches and if/elses.

I can tell you the reason I don't support old Windows, for example, once Microsoft quits, is I just don't want to deal with it. It has nothing to do with profit, especially for apps I give away for free. I already support apps on two versions of the Windows client, and three versions of Windows Server. I don't go out of my way to break things on old Windows, but if I add something that leaves those old Windows versions behind, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Dark Knight said:
...the amount of machines running unsupported right now more than likely out weigh those that are supported at this point and Microsoft knows this

Based on what data?

Dark Knight said:
...which is why they put the new cpu restrictions on 23H2, there are too many running 11 on OLD cpu's and they can't have that. That right there shows that this is nothing more than a money grab by Microsoft and it's vendors.

Microsoft makes about a quarter of their revenue from personal computing, that is, you and me. Depending on which estimate you read and which year, they make about 10-12% of their revenue from Windows, and I would wager most of that money comes from corporate customers. I know we just renewed our agreement with them, and it cost almost as much as a coffee from Starbucks (kidding).

I honestly think Microsoft could almost give Windows away and not notice the drop in revenue. 365 Apps (Office) makes twice as much money, and their cloudy division makes nearly twice that.

Dark Knight said:
The proof will be in October of next year when Windows 11 market share will still be in the crapper , it will be then Microsoft will have to make a hard decision.

A lot of us see this for what it is and it doesn't sit well with the majority, no one is asking for a free OS , if you have to charge for it fine, just make one everyone can use with their current equipment, within reason.

People continue to run old versions of Windows every time one expires. I doubt anyone in Redmond worries about it. You can keep using 10 or 11 or 14 or 21. No one's stopping you, and Microsoft won't support it once they make that decision. Just do the rest of us a favor and keep it off the Internet.

glasskuter · Sunday at 12:23 AM

I'm not saying some of these argument are not valid. But no one has brought up the main reason Microsoft (along with Intel and AMD) has chosen to go this route on their hardware requirements for 11 and going forward to 12 or 13 or whatever they will call it......SECURITY.

A lot of pressure has been put on Microsoft by both governments and the corporate world to do something to make the OS and access to the data safer.Its these corporate entities that are targeted the most by hackers both stealing massive amounts of information as well as holding massive amounts of data for ransom. It's also these corporate entities who MS designs the operating system for and who makes MS the most money.

Yes, there are probably millions of devices out there running 11 just fine on incompatible hardware. Microsoft left the door open for people to do that. But you can bet large corporations are not running 11 on incompatible hardware. MS can, and will, close that door at some point, like it or not.

I've said it many times before. The operating system belongs to Microsoft, not the end user who only has a license to use it. They can do what they want with it.

stormy13 · Sunday at 1:31 AM

Just in case no one checked, the OP never had a supported CPU in the first place (from February if this year),

Known and Resolved issues for Windows 11 version 23H2

Windows message center: Current status as of February 20, 2024 Windows 11, version 23H2, also known as the Windows 11 2023 Update, is now entering a new rollout phase. We are starting to update eligible Windows 11 devices automatically to version 23H2. This automatic update targets Windows 11...

www.elevenforum.com

hake said:
I have a Dell Vostro 3268 which is running Windows 11 on Seventh Generation hardware. I am running Windows 11 22H2. On attempting to update to 23H2, I have discovered that Microsoft has ruled that Windows 11 23H2 does not support Seventh Generation technology equipped systems. Microsoft never advertised that it had designated Seventh Generation technology as close to 'end of life' and so I was not warned against acquiring a short life Windows 11 system.

Microsoft is hanging the users of hundreds of millions of its Windows systems out to dry. Google is offering ChromeOS Flex to Windows users. I hope that ChromeOS Flex is a roaring success and that Microsoft bitterly regrets its poor judgement.

This home user does not trust Microsoft not to make my Windows systems obsolete at short notice.

which from what I can find about the specs for said system never came with any of the limited seventh gen CPU's.

It is great that you all have had a good conversation about this, but this OP seems to be nothing more than a "one post hit and run" poster and never comes back to respond.

maur0 · Sunday at 6:12 AM

TechnoMage2021 said:
Years ago, someone coined the expression, "Computer Ignorant". The reason for that expression is still quite obvious.

I read some of the most ridiculous comments, like "I can't install Windows 11 on my laptop", and things like that.

Everyone can't be a computer Guru, and that's why we have Computer Stores and PC Repair shops.

After fixing peoples computer problems, I've retired, but I'm still fixing PC's for people, all over the world.

My 12 year old AMD FX 6350 is now very happily running Windows 11/Pro/64, 24H2, and is as happy as a pig in a mud hole.

NO, I didn't rely on a MS Update! I never have, in 40+ years.
I not only change OS's but I change my HD or SSD at the same time. I keep my old OS and data, safe as I set up and run a new drive with the new OS.

Right now, on this 12 Yr old PC, I'm running three different OS's on three separate drives. The F12 key, on boot, allows me to boot up to my old drive with 22H2 on it. Or, Win-10/Pro/x86. If I do nothing but turn on the Power to my PC, it will boot up, my newest Crucial SSD, in around 10 Sec's to Windows 24H2, lightened by Rufus, and installed from a Flash Drive.

What CPU cooler do I use? OH, I still use the Cooler that came with the AMD FX-6350 chip, years ago. I do clean and re-oil it periodically.

Recently, I did go into the Bios on this old Gigabyte motherboard, and I changed the DDR3 RAM, CAS Latency from 11 to 9, and picked up a bit more performance out of this old system.

I don't expect every user to know how to do these things that I do, because I fixed computer for 40+ years, but any decent Computer shop should know how. Pick up the phone and give'em a call.

TM

Do you turn off the spectrum and metldown protections to give this fx a little more speed?

jimbo45 · Sunday at 6:52 AM

If you run as VM's and use the HOST for the security you should be able to run whatever version of Windows you want until the end of the Universe, It's quite easy to set up your VM to use a proxy / gateway on the host for any Internet accesses so the fact that old versions of Windows fail to get security shouldn't be the "Show stopper" it seems to be.

Incompatible hardware for Windows 11 can run other OS'es which can set up VM's -- I don't blame Ms for trying to make their OS secure and if that need more modern hardware and you want to run W11 as a Host then so be it -- .

My gripe with Ms was that they introduced some of the hardware requirements for Win 11 just too early with zillions of perfectly good functioning W10 machines. A start would have been to have a final W10 system that only supported x-64 (32 bit should have been dropped on the latest releases of W10), then introduced W11 gradually and tightening up the hardware at each stage so people would still have had a few years of using perfectly sensible hardware.

Most people tend to use computers for "Officy" type tasks, multi-media streaming and social media --those things could run almost on any OS.

Cheers
jimbo

Dark Knight · Sunday at 11:32 AM

pseymour said:
Could have, but why? For example, make a version of the code that works with TPM 2 and one without? Then more versions that need the POPCNT instruction and ones that don't? What a support hassle, dealing with those circumstances and branches and if/elses.

I can tell you the reason I don't support old Windows, for example, once Microsoft quits, is I just don't want to deal with it. It has nothing to do with profit, especially for apps I give away for free. I already support apps on two versions of the Windows client, and three versions of Windows Server. I don't go out of my way to break things on old Windows, but if I add something that leaves those old Windows versions behind, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

It has nothing to do with TPM or Secure start , most PCs built within the last 10 top 12 years already have it.
Most of the pc's failing installation requirements are due to the cpu issue .... why ? because of the spectre vulnerability. It's not that those cpu's CANNOT run Windows 11, it's because MS does not know how to deal with the spectre vulnerability. So instead of fixing the vulnerability , just force everyone to purchase a new cpu / motherboard (or possibly both) or what most will do is just purchase a new PC while trashing the old for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

pseymour said:
Based on what data?

Just do a google search, it comes up everywhere, instead of Windows 11 gaining ground on Windows 10 it is actually losing ground.

pseymour said:
People continue to run old versions of Windows every time one expires. I doubt anyone in Redmond worries about it. You can keep using 10 or 11 or 14 or 21. No one's stopping you, and Microsoft won't support it once they make that decision. Just do the rest of us a favor and keep it off the Internet.

Oh I beg to differ, Redmond will worry when their market share suffers , when Apple and Linux start eating up that market share they will pay attention , believe me.

pseymour · Sunday at 12:46 PM

Dark Knight said:
It has nothing to do with TPM or Secure start , most PCs built within the last 10 top 12 years already have it.
Most of the pc's failing installation requirements are due to the cpu issue

I mentioned TPM, but not Secure Boot, and one of the CPU instructions at issue, because those are two things that have been problems for people over the life of Windows 11 thus far. Those are what is referred to as "examples."

Dark Knight said:
Just do a google search, it comes up everywhere, instead of Windows 11 gaining ground on Windows 10 it is actually losing ground.

Oh, now I'm convinced. Even if Windows 11 is losing share, it's not necessarily because of upgrade-blocking issues. It could also be because people try 11 and just plain don't like it. Questionable accuracy of these stat counting sites aside, they don't give reasons why the numbers go in some particular direction.

Dark Knight said:
Oh I beg to differ, Redmond will worry when their market share suffers , when Apple and Linux start eating up that market share they will pay attention , believe me.

They've been losing ground to iOS and Android for years, as (some) people move away from Windows/macOS devices. Maybe that's why they shifted focus to Azure and 365, huh? But yeah, I'm sure they'll miss you.

hake · Monday at 8:04 AM

Thanks for your points of view and apologies for the shortcomings of my initial post. I am trying to install Win 11 23H2 over Win 10 22H2 but have been bashing my head against the barrier of compatibility.

I am now using information in Neowin
https://www.neowin.net/guides/how-to-install-windows-11-version-23h2-on-unsupported-hardware/

I am using the method of creating a bootable USB device for updating Windows 10 and using the command line:-
F:setup.exe /product server
(apparently the 'server' option bypasses hardware checks).

All seems to be working OK but I have the bad feeling that Microsoft will put the mockers on this procedure before stable Windows 11 24H2 comes along. What do you guys think? I guess that each future update of Windows 11 will need similar treatment.

Adding registry entries to force setup to bypass hardware checks does not work. The 'server' option does.

BTW, I tried using Rufus but the Neowin instructions were unintelligible. Others can obviously use it so I must make another attempt. Can the Rufus method really sneak past the hardware compatibility checks?