Solved Switch to Linux

pparks1 said:

^ Yeah that's when I stop talking to people. I dabble and play with all the systems. I see the pros and cons of both. Bullying people is dumb.

i love all the hate against Apple though. I think they get hated on the most. The strongest haters are usually the ones who have never used one of their products. I'm not a fanboy, but there are some things that I really do like, and others that I don't care of at all.

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Generally speaking I'm agnostic. But when it comes to false Gods (so to speak) - like worshiping software/hardware products - I'm a bit of Technical Atheist. I don't believe in words but actions and facts. We do live in a time - when proving practical points through empirical evidence (after all, hardware devices and even software - don't belong to the spiritual realm) - became easier than ever (with recordings of said capabilities in practice or legit statistics). And not surprisingly, most zealots of X brand and Y software i encounter/d (be it in real life or in the virtual world) - expect you to just take their own words for it - exactly like the followers of a religious group/cult (it's not about empirical evidence - but their shared belief). Also in a religious way, while presented with proof which counters their arguments - they become hateful and blindly aggressive/violent/abusive - forcefully ignoring any evidence - and shifting either to verbal diarrhea where they spew everything that's on their mind (quantity over quality... there's nothing one could learn from that) or flaming content (whatever offensive meme they can find on the internet). Best case scenario - they walk away (or you do - only reasonable choice while dealing with clouded judgements). As can be seen in this topic - or any other - where competitive brands/products are debated.

That being said, i'm not a fan of any brand - don't have any favorites. Lesson learned the hard way - while having a good experience with specific products - and thus... recommending that given brand as reliable - only for them to cut corners the next year and screwing their customers in the process (Lenovo, Dell, Hp... been there - done that, never again). As for Apple... honestly - i worked with a lot and all kinds of Apple products - but i never fully liked an Apple product - i only liked specific parts (they do have access to high quality components). Like, more recently was impressed with the Microphone (and the software handling the audio recording) on iPhone 13. And also the Camera Stabilization on iPhone 14....


As for MacBooks - loved the battery life, the low temperatures - but as a personal preference - glossy screens are not my thing (even tho - the display is great in a dark room). Always hated their upgrade programs - even more now - when they switched to unified/soldered Memory. That's basically like a smartphone at this point - yet they still sell units with 8GB Ram... in mid 2024. And a lot of people still buy them - unaware of the lack of upgradability. I mean...


Apple clearly knows this (intentional). 8 GB models still being released is clearly a future profit move. It's still a 1100$ Laptop (if going for M3). Also, the display might be decent (color reproduction wise) - but still stuck at 60 Hz. In the past - Apple was known for introducing new technological features - while now, with Apple you always get less (yesterday's tech) - for more (higher prices, well... Apple products were always overpriced - so they kept the negative part) - compared to curent tech standards adopted by PC OEMs. At same price...

HP Envy 16 Designer Laptop | 16" WQXGA IPS 120Hz Touch 400nits 100% sRGB | Intel 14-core i7-13700H | 16GB DDR5 1TB SSD | GeForce RTX 4060 8GB Graphic | Backlit Thunderbolt Win11Pro w/DLCA Accessory

...or 32 GB Ram for +80$

PaulGo said:

My old laptop (2009) would not be supported with Windows 11. Windows 11 was designed with many security features that older computers do not support. So even if you use a hack to install Windows 11 you are still putting your old computer at risk. I think many people would be surprised how well Linux Mint Cinnamon works on older computers,

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Even 2014 models which came with Windows 8 - are rather sluggish on Windows 10/11 compared to a Lite Linux Distro. Personally i went for MX Linux (Xfce) - which is Debian based. But Mint is a good option too - a cleaner version of Ubuntu.

Also have MX Linux on a Desktop with Pentium E2160. Didn't have the heart to throw it away - still good enough for lite games and some YouTube streaming - if guests bring their children around. Children are easily entertained - way better than running around the house and braking something.

markw51 said:

So how come then when I install Windows 11 on my Dell Inspiron 5340, I have to manually load the Wi-Fi driver from a USB stick as the Intel AX210 network adaptor is not recognised by Windows. Yet when installing Ubuntu 24.04.1 I have no such issues, and all hardware is recognised and ready for use. Even the Goodix fingerprint sensor works first time on Ubuntu which I was surprised with.

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AFAIK the Inspiron 14 5340 comes with Intel AX211, not AX210, as the M.2 Key E slot in this laptop is CNVio2. You cannot install a non-CNVio2 card in a CNVio2 M.2 slot.

Comparing Xfce GUI with Windows 11 is like comparing how plain light Windows 98 GUI is to Windows 11. Not fair at all. If you disable all visual effects and switch to a high contrast theme, Windows 11 becomes much faster but you get a plain ugly GUI, no thanks.

Regarding the lack of drivers for new hardware, that's exactly the reason I download all drivers from manufacturer before wiping the disk and doing a clean install. So I don't need internet access to install them on the new installation, plus I get far better performance than letting Windows Update finding them. As you might know generic open source drivers in Linux make the device work but are nowhere near the performance of OEM proprietary drivers and they don't always enable all device features. Same thing for Windows Update versus official OEM drivers.

hdmi said:

AFAIK the Inspiron 14 5340 comes with Intel AX211, not AX210, as the M.2 Key E slot in this laptop is CNVio2. You cannot install a non-CNVio2 card in a CNVio2 M.2 slot.

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Well whichever one it is, my point is still valid.

markw51 said:

Well whichever one it is, my point is still valid.

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Of course you are right, but I never made the claim that Windows is necessarily always going to be a better choice for everyone who uses a PC. As a matter of fact, there is no secret about the fact that I rant about both Windows and Microsoft as a whole, more so than the vast majority of ElevenForum members do. So much so, if I switch to Linux, I am afraid I will lose my biggest hobby.

SlicEnDicE said:

Aah, I see...well Photoshop is known for NOT optimizing anything...and it seems Photoshop for Mac was no exception in this regard. Both versions were most likely slow, but the Mac version was even slower for sure.

I don't really understand why Adobe makes these badly performing resource hogs, when you can make similar functionality much more efficient. They've had a very long time to optimize at least something on Windows...I guess Adobe does not care.

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IIRC, Photoshop 5 was the 1st version of Photoshop that was able to use Nvidia CUDA hardware acceleration. Also IIRC, Premiere Pro CC 2015 was the 1st version of Premiere Pro that was able to use Intel Quick Sync Video (QSV) to optimize video trascoding operations, and, there has been an engineering collaboration between Intel and Adobe about this particular subject for a really very long time.

SlicEnDicE said:

Aah, I see...well Photoshop is known for NOT optimizing anything...and it seems Photoshop for Mac was no exception in this regard. Both versions were most likely slow, but the Mac version was even slower for sure.

I don't really understand why Adobe makes these badly performing resource hogs, when you can make similar functionality much more efficient. They've had a very long time to optimize at least something on Windows...I guess Adobe does not care.

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The joke here is that Apple fanboys claim they use Macs for Adobe applications because they are fastest than PCs and that is because usually the Mac version comes first and then the Windows version. I think since you can find the same applications in Windows and use a PC half the price of a Mac with the same performance, why buy Mac? Using a PC makes much more sense.

spapakons said:

Comparing Xfce GUI with Windows 11 is like comparing how plain light Windows 98 GUI is to Windows 11. Not fair at all. If you disable all visual effects and switch to a high contrast theme, Windows 11 becomes much faster but you get a plain ugly GUI, no thanks.

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Sure, Mr. Expert BS'er....


On that 17 year old system - had Linux Mint before switching to MX - and used it both with Mate and Cinnamon. While in the past - that same system was used with Gnome (Ubuntu, Debian, Lubuntu, Arch, openSUSE, Fedora, etc) - and even used to play with all the flashy UI stuff (Windows 11 can't manage some of that stuff even today - without paid 3rd party tools - like the ones developed by Stardock). Even so, was still running smoother than Windows - it's why i preferred it for general use. While Windows was used mainly just for Gaming and Work. Obviously, I could use the same DE even today (200+ MB Ram -/+ doesn't make much difference), but this days - i don't care much about all that flashy UI stuff. It's simply a matter of preference and practicality. That being among the reasons why i chose/prefer MX Linux Xfce:


Tho, i don't ow you any explanation regarding my personal tastes. Nobody does (personal tastes - are never up for a debate - we all like what we like). This being elevenforum - 99.9% of discussions are Windows related. So if you don't use Linux - even loathe it (as you've made very clear - with more than half of your posts - in his topic alone) - you had/have plenty of other topics to chose from - and maybe talk about something you actually use or understand (at least better than Linux). And yet, since this topic was created - you spent most of your time here writing 30+ posts - while more than half the content is plain toxic and condescending (similar to that PS fan - acting/talking as if you know what's best for everyone - as if the whole world revolves around your likes & dislikes) - a verbal diarrhea of hate and nonsense (expressing your hate for Linux in every shape and form - be it bluntly, with old memes or just picking on anyone who shared his experience - while spilling more toxic egocentric nonsense).

just to add.
there are some places in the world that have much older systems that wont run windows.
not everybody everywhere has up to date hardware.
they dont have the finances to afford windows, so there only choice in most circumstances would be Linux.

best of luck, Steve ..

hdmi said:

IIRC, Photoshop 5 was the 1st version of Photoshop that was able to use Nvidia CUDA hardware acceleration. Also IIRC, Premiere Pro CC 2015 was the 1st version of Premiere Pro that was able to use Intel Quick Sync Video (QSV) to optimize video trascoding operations, and, there has been an engineering collaboration between Intel and Adobe about this particular subject for a really very long time.

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QSV is a really good feature in Premiere. I am not quite convinced about CUDA on Adobe products yet though. I guess someone finds that useful too. Nevertheless both good technologies. Adobe tools are quite chunky boys.

neves said:

Sure, Mr. Expert BS'er....

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Amazing! Some Linux users has been doing this sort of stuff for ages. Even on some old potatos. Some systems are so heavily customized that one can't even tell wether they use Linux or some other OS from year 3065. Beautiful!

XxXxX said:

just to add.
there are some places in the world that have much older systems that wont run windows.
not everybody everywhere has up to date hardware.
they dont have the finances to afford windows, so there only choice in most circumstances would be Linux.

best of luck, Steve ..

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You are absolutely correct. Either that or they're still stuck on XP, which is very prone to cyber attacks. There was this time when you couldn't even install XP while connected to the internet without being attacked and hacked before the installer was completed.

garlin said:

2024 is the Year of the Linux Desktop!

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I've been hearing that for decades.

Fun fact:

About 25 years ago, I built my own Linux distribution from source. It had no DE but I could launch graphical applications. Could view images, play audio and video files, play games, had mouse support and could surf the web.

Very fun project but not so practical to use. I learned a lot from that experiment.

Stigg said:

I've been hearing that for decades.

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Yeah, it had better hurry up - only 3 months left.

I don't just accuse your precious Linux. I am trying to protect novices from messing with it and regret it. If anyone wants to switch to Linux I can't stop him, you have been warned. If Linux is that good why don't the majority of PC users use it? Are we all stupid? I don't think so.

spapakons said:

After installing Ubuntu on a virtual machine, just to see how easy it is compared to Linux of the 90's I first used, I saw many improvements in user friendly but not quite like Windows. Then I tried to install VMWare Additions to get all the drivers and the ability to copy-paste between the host and the guest. It should be as easy as double-clicking the installer, enter your root password and proceed. No such luck, I had to use the dreadful Terminal. Then I wanted to test hardware compatibility, so I connected my printer to the guest and searched for drivers. As you expect, there were not official proprietary drivers and I had to resort to CUPS. This as explained earlier gave me the ability to print in normal quality on plain paper. Nothing more and of course I didn't like my expensive MFP treated like a cheap printer. Every other software I wanted to install that wasn't in the repository required specific Terminal commands to add its repository and install it. Not really convenient.

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I'm not sure what you are doing but VMWare on any Linux distro I've tried just installs -- even using those GUI package managers like Discover -- in fact it's a lot easier, quicker and less messy than trying to install specific windows updated from the catalog (individual KB....... updates) or windows build updates which often takes AGES and several reboots - and you've only got to look on this forum for problems people have of installing Windows updates.



On a distro like OPENSUSE (not a debian derivative BTW just to show one doesn't have to rely on Debian type systems for proper package manager updates) - one can update / upgrade the entire system via one terminal command : Zypper -dup. then the entire thing is updated in usually less than a couple of minutes - and only if the kernel changes a release will a reboot be necessary.

VMWare will install either via using Discover on this distro or simply running the downloaded script which is the equivalent of the install.exe or .msi windows file.

The vmware tools package also will install - but in any case if running a Windows VM you have to install the vmware-tools package from WITHIN the VM in any case so that's not a Linux problem.

But if you ARE using Linux there's a much better VM system built into the kernel - as good if not better than HYPER-V on Windows which itself is no mean slouch. KVM/QEMU. And if you have a GUI creating and maintaining VM's is an absolute doddle . And it's hugely better than Virtual machine software on Windows since passthru of hardware including GPU's and dynamic usb and pci re-direction while the VM is running make it extremely flexible if you often connect things like USB devices including USB / SSD external drives etc.


You can use an Emulated TPM if your Mobo doesn't have one and you want to install Win 11 PRO with all the standard options -- the package swtpm plus any co-reqs are installed if you enable the Virtual Machine (KVM/QEMU) services.



As for running from icons as per windows -- no prob at all - just add the icon to the desktop from the start menu and it's there just like a Windows desktop -- non of that rubbish Windows has with those "new fangled" store type apps with all sorts of complex names etc to get them to a shortcut to send to the desktop).



Again - Adding software from extra repositories is childishly simple too these days. I needed to add AtomicParsley for some media editing things - simple :



I don't usually run Linux this way -- I/m doing this on a test machine just to demo how easy Linux has really become these days for typical users if they want to try it.


I'm not going to change anybody's mind here but just stating that these days particularly late 2024 there's a HUGE misconception of how difficult Linux is for the average person to use.

Provided the desktop is properly configured for its target users it's as easy as Windows -- a couple of people who had never used Linux before found the system easy to use -- even starting the VM and using Ms Office on the Guest.

As a normal user they can't "Wreck" the system by typing the wrong command and like many Windows users they don't use the terminal command at all.

I'm not going to abandon Windows even though it's not my main OS - but the difficulty of Linux is grossly overstated - with possibly the exception of the install process as there's many choices you can make on what to include / exclude which makes it so flexible -- with Windows you are essentially stuck with all the bloat Ms wants to give. Linux is also - if you are a "Super user or Admin" is not so forgiving of errors either but if it's done right the end user experience should be perfectly OK.

Finally -- here's the Test system where the screen shots came from -- running on a Mini PC with one Windows 11 PRO running.




Cheers
jimbo

I haven't used many Linux distros, only Ubuntu which is more popular, just out of curiosity to see how easy it has become. Installing Ubuntu is not difficult, just boot the USB and select Install instead of Try. The difficulty arises when not all drivers are installed automatically and you need to type commands in the Terminal for the rest. Even if you download a driver from manufacturer it is not as simple as double-clicking to install (it should be), you need to do it in Terminal, ridiculous. The same when you dare download an application outside the repositories. Windows is just download and run. It cannot be easier than that.

Deleted member 35760 said:

Why people switch to Linux? There are no software like in Windows and Linux not good for gaming.

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people get annoyed with microsoft and want to use their existing hardware. with the introduction of the steam deck ,linux gaming is growing by leaps and bounds . with nivdea supporting linux drivers again , the number is likely to grow over time as people get fed up with Microsoft's shenanigans

Linux is only 5% of domestic consumer user base - that answers ops original question of whether one should switch i.e. for vast majority - No.

End of story.

I strongly recommend to click Try first before you decide to click on Install. Don't say I didn't tell you. Even better, make a list with everything you do on your computer every day or at least once a week. Can you do all of them in Linux? If you are 100% sure you can, go ahead and install it and compare how you do them in Windows and how you do them in Linux. Only then you can make a safe decision.