Solved Switch to Linux

pparks1 · Sep 27, 2024

spapakons said:
So please stop trying to convince us a Mac is similarly priced to a Windows laptop. It is not. For Apple you don't get what you pay for, you get far less than that. Sorry, I don't have money to burn, I stick with Windows.

I'm saying that a Mac, similarly spec'd to a Windows laptop of relatively equal quality is not 3x the cost as you claimed. It's going to be a bit more expensive, but certainly not 3x the cost.

I've got 8GB on my Mac Mini and it's honestly never struggled with the loads that I give it. I would however not run a windows machine with less than 16GB of RAM though. Honestly, with the M1's ARM architecture, 8GB of RAM on Apple is about same as 16GB on Windows, and 16GB on Mac is close to 32GB on Windows. At least it's how it feels from the seat of your pants.

Also remember, I'm a PC person too. I have a Ryzen 5900x gaming desktop with an Nvidia 3080, i have my Beelink mini-PC with 32GB of RAM running Windows 11 (it's what I am using now). For work, I have a Dell Precision laptop with a Core i9 in it. My wife, son and daughter all have custom built Windows desktops.

I just also happen to like the Macbooks and Mac Mini's. They are great for what they do. On the flip side, I cannot stand the iPhone and have always been on Android.

I just like technology.

pparks1 · Sep 27, 2024

hdmi said:
because the hardware often pans out to be more about perceived quality vs real quality,

I don't know....about their not being real quality and it's all perceived.

Their displays are fantastic (they don't have a crappy display in any model).
Touchpad experience is fantastic, better than almost anything I have ever used on the PC side
The laptops go to sleep and awaken from sleep nearly instantaneously. My experience with windows and pc's is a bit lackluster there.
Battery life on the Apple Silicon is unbelievable, especially based on the processing power it has. Windows is closing that gap with the new snapdragon arm processors
Thunderbolt/USB4 support. It really is a nice to have, but with limited storage onboard and apple charging crazy amounts to upgrade it, being able to add external storage that is as fast as the onboard NVMe via 40Gbps Thunderbolt ports is very nice.

Displays for me has always been a big thing. I used to build computers for people and myself included and I often couldn't understand why somebody would want to spend money on their RGB lighting, or faster processors, or the next model up graphics card, or slightly faster DDRx RAM, and then saddle it to some $99 TN panel monitor from Best Buy and call it a day. I mean, you may occasionally enjoy a little extra CPU power, or you may pick up a few nanoseconds from your faster ram here and there, but your monitor you look at 100% of the time you use your computer. I want that being as nice, and accurate and crisp and clear as you can get. I want stands with height adjustments. The monitor that i have currently attached to my Beelink mini PC (an asus ProArt 27" display), costs almost as much as the computer did. Worth every single penny.

with all that said, i do absolutely hate hearing apple people talk about their own products though. Their announcements and events are painful to watch. They fall all over themselves with a 2mm cut here, and a complete and total redesign there.

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

More resolution? I don't think the majority of users can tell the difference between 1080p and a MacBook screen at 15.6", let alone the smaller 13" MacBook screen. Some even buy 4K laptops and never be able to tell the difference. Brighter? Not sure, but most laptops have enough brightness to work with, unless you have the sun at your back.

Metal design? You can find Windows laptops with metal case, if you want to pay extra for that. Most don't care, so why force them to pay it?

Battery life? I cannot judge that, surely the more the better, but if it is removable, I would just buy a spare and keep it charged, so I can swap it and continue working/gaming. At the night I can charge one and then charge the other to have it for the next day.

USB 4.0? Most of us can do our job reasonably fast with USB 3.0 or 3.1 ports and we wouldn't tell the difference, unless using an extremely expensive USB 4.0 external disk.

It's not worth the extra cost just for these mostly useless features.

cereberus · Sep 27, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
The laptop market pricing is very similar in EU compared to the US.

What comes to laptop pricing in general. A 1000€ MacBook will definitely outperform both visually, battery and software performance wise any Windows PC at same pricepoint or lower. The difference is HUGE.

I use Windows laptops ranging from 1500-2500€ and none can keep up with the latest Macs. Not getting even close. Unless sacrificing battery life from 10h+ to barely 3h and even less.

I'm no Mac fanboy and I despise Apple for being Apple, but that does not change the fact that Macs are very good at what they were designed to be.

Huh - laptops are much dearer in EU mainly due to higher VAT rates and also the higher markup in price due to scam on exchange rates.

In UK not EU of course - the scamming pc sellers effectively use an exchange of £1 = $1.
When I loved in Denmark, the scam exchange rate was nearer $1= €1.2

Upshot is a laptop is roughly 30 to 40% dearer the European side of the Pond.

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

cereberus said:
Huh - laptops are much dearer in EU mainly due to higher VAT rates and also the higher markup in price due to scam on exchange rates.

In UK not EU of course - the scamming pc sellers effectively use an exchange of £1 = $1.
When I loved in Denmark, the scam exchange rate was nearer $1= €1.2

Upshot is a laptop is roughly 30 to 40% dearer the European side of the Pond.

Today is much better. In the previous decades here in Greece we would pay at least 30% more for imported technology that was already old in USA. At least in our days the same technology reaches us with less than 1-2 months delay and the price difference is not that high. Just some reasonable increase due to customs and shipping costs. Of course there are some large retail stores that have higher prices just because they can, but if you do a little online research and buy from a smaller retailer you can get much lower prices than the large stores.

XxXxX · Sep 27, 2024

i think there are a few misconceptions about Linux.
when in Linux think Linux .. when in Windows think Windows .. the twain dont meet.

on older systems/computers Linux compatibility is no problem be it hardware/firmware/drivers.
Windows normally gets the newer ones first as it has a much larger user base but Linux normally catches up rapidly.

i used Linux as my main/daily system for over 20 years, no problem. in most cases a lot less problems then the Window systems in the house.
i have 2 desktops 4 laptops and i just got tired of dealing with 2 different systems so moved my system to Win11.

it was no big deal but i sometimes miss the ease of the Linux CLI.
as i stated before Linux or Windows its horse for courses. if your happy with it use it.
and may your operating system, regardless of which one, always function perfectly.

best of luck. Steve ..

hdmi · Sep 27, 2024

spapakons said:
At almost this price, 1316€ you get

HP Victus 15-fa0122nw 15.6" IPS FHD 144Hz (i5-12450H/16GB/512GB SSD/GeForce RTX 3050/No OS) (US Keyboard)

with double the RAM and double the SSD and discrete graphics card (much better than onboard graphics). Sure, it doesn't come with Windows, but if you have a previous license you can use, this is not an issue. To get it with Windows you add 99€ or less, depending on the store and the deal.

You want Windows? For 1318€ you get

Dell Latitude 5440 14" IPS FHD (i5-1345U/16GB/512GB SSD/W11 Pro) (US Keyboard)

again with double the RAM and double the SSD than the Mac.

For 1279€ you get the Asus TUF Gaming F16 (2024). I have it, it features a 16″ FHD+ (WUXGA, 1920x1200) anti-glare IPS screen with 165Hz, one heck of a lot faster CPU (i7-13650HX) when compared to what you are referring to, a lot faster GPU (RTX 4060), 16GB DDR5 (none of which is soldered to the motherboard so it is fully upgradable), 512GB NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSD (with a spare M.2 NVMe slot also for upgrades), great cooling (with dust filters on the fans), 90Wh battery, MUX Switch, a high quality RGB (1-Zone) backlit keyboard that matches the layout of my region where I live, HDMI 2.1 (with FRL, so it can support 8K), USB4/Thunderbolt 4, and Windows 11 Home. As a cool bonus, it came with an Asus ROG backpack as a free gift from Asus because I bought it online from Asus eStore Belgium during the Asus Member Festival sales period before summer this year, and, because I was logged in as an Asus Member at the time when I made my purchase, I received an additional discount in addition to the standard discount of the Festival.

Silvio · Sep 27, 2024

Deleted member 35760 said:
Why people switch to Linux? There are no software like in Windows and Linux not good for gaming.

People who think they can just switch "everything" to Linux, to replace Windows, typically have a very abrupt awakening.

Those of us, who have decades of Linux experience, will still have a Windows machine or VM around, for running MS Office, or the "Windows stuff" that is just easier on Windows.

Having said that, I was effortlessly able to switch Work/Citrix PC to Linux, which was very satisfying.

Silvio · Sep 27, 2024

XxXxX said:
just to add something Microsoft Office 365 is web based Microsoft Edge is now available on Linux.
therefore MS office 365 on the web is now available for Linux if those that wish to use Office want to.

Best of luck. Steve ..

Last time I tried that, it was crippled free version.

Win 11 + MS Office 365, deserves it's own PC/VM, even in a Linux "bod's" house.

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

That's the whole point. They think they will install the free Linux to fully replace Windows and as by magic their aging computer will have the performance of a current computer. They regret it at the first day, or should I say the first hour? Don't make the same stupid assumption. Linux is better suited for servers, programmers, ITs. It is not for the average user that even struggles with much easier Windows, it cannot do everything that Windows can and, guess what, your aging computer will not be that faster. If you want to make it faster disable all visual effects, all startup applications and application updater services and make sure your free hard disk space is more than 25-30%. Needless to say you must replace your mechanical HDD with an SSD, if you don't have done this already. You can even replace standard Windows 11 with a lite version, although I don't like this last option that removes features and capabilities and possibly affects compatibility in order to make Windows faster. No need to mess with Linux. A wise guy would try Linux first in a virtual machine before deciding to replace Windows. I am sure more than 70% of those who try it, they will decide to stick with Windows.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 27, 2024

You're now contradicting yourself...average user...disable this and that. The average user has no clue about this stuff.

And YES, default Linux DE install is more responsive than Windows even after disabling a lot of Windows features and services. Also consumes much less RAM, which matters for those with limited money and can't upgrade.

I've replaced Windows with Linux on hundreds of machines because the computers were totally unusable with Windows. With Linux these old machines got an extra 2-5 years easily.

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

SlicEnDicE said:
You're now contradicting yourself...average user...disable this and that. The average user has no clue about this stuff.

And YES, default Linux DE install is more responsive than Windows even after disabling a lot of Windows features and services. Also consumes much less RAM, which matters for those with limited money and can't upgrade.

I've replaced Windows with Linux on hundreds of machines because the computers were totally unusable with Windows. With Linux these old machines got an extra 2-5 years easily.

That is if these users simply surf the internet and watch some videos in VLC. Anything more than that and they will realize Linux is not Windows. If all they do is simple tasks they won't tell the difference, until they have issues they cannot solve and blame you for installing Linux on their PCs. If one wants much more than simple tasks, Linux either does it the difficult way or doesn't at all. I prefer an OS that enables my computer to do everything I want. Not one that demotes it to a smart typewriter that writes documents, does some programming, surfs the internet and plays videos in VLC. I want a fully fledged general purpose PC. This is possible with Windows.

For simple tasks like these, they won't tell the difference between "slow" Windows (very exaggerated description) and "fast" Linux (also very exaggerated, the speed difference is not that large).

cereberus · Sep 27, 2024

spapakons said:
Today is much better. In the previous decades here in Greece we would pay at least 30% more for imported technology that was already old in USA. At least in our days the same technology reaches us with less than 1-2 months delay and the price difference is not that high. Just some reasonable increase due to customs and shipping costs. Of course there are some large retail stores that have higher prices just because they can, but if you do a little online research and buy from a smaller retailer you can get much lower prices than the large stores.

It varies from EU country to country. Either way, you cannot ignore VAT differences.

Britain still gets screwed - it is a scandal really.

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

I think British should consider the consequences before voting for Brexit. British Pound is very strong but Euro is not weak either.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 27, 2024

spapakons said:
Linux is not Windows

Exactly, thus a different name. No one has claimed otherwise.

spapakons said:
If one wants much more than simple tasks, Linux either does it the difficult way or doesn't at all.

This is simply not true. Who cares how Linux does it's things as long as it spits out the correct result in decent time frame. What comes to the user part...you fire up your program by double click (or single if you're one of those), do your thing, save, close the program.

How does that differ from Windows?

spapakons · Sep 27, 2024

hdmi · Sep 27, 2024

pparks1 said:
I'm saying that a Mac, similarly spec'd to a Windows laptop of relatively equal quality is not 3x the cost as you claimed. It's going to be a bit more expensive, but certainly not 3x the cost.

I've got 8GB on my Mac Mini and it's honestly never struggled with the loads that I give it. I would however not run a windows machine with less than 16GB of RAM though. Honestly, with the M1's ARM architecture, 8GB of RAM on Apple is about same as 16GB on Windows, and 16GB on Mac is close to 32GB on Windows. At least it's how it feels from the seat of your pants.

Obvious lie is obvious. lmao

SlicEnDicE · Sep 27, 2024

spapakons said:
View attachment 110158

Works fine on all my systems. Nothing to cry about there...I would use the same WiFi cards on any OS anyways...because many brands and revisions are horrible.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 27, 2024

hdmi said:
Obvious lie is obvious. lmao

To be honest, that Macbook did a very good job at keeping up. Also comparing Adobe tools on an ARM device vs native x86_64 is unfair since there's a lot of overhead when emulating x86_64.

MacOS and Windows manages also memory very differently, so looking at pure numbers is a bit of a moot point. He forgot to mention how much RAM actually was committed. What is in use is something entirely different.

But fair enough...8GB isn't 16 no matter how much you twist and turn it.

PaulGo · Sep 27, 2024

Many older computers will not be supported by Microsoft Windows in a year. If you need a secure system that is fully supported, then Linux is a great alternative,

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