Solved Switch to Linux

SlicEnDicE said:

That's exactly how you install any driver or software on Linux if you don't want to use the command line. Everything is in one place.

Search, select, click install, DONE!

No need to surf the web for installers, like in Windows.

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Yeah but in most cases you can't find what you are looking for

You don't need the command line for 1 in 100000 drivers or applications you try to install in Linux. For the rest 99999 ones you need it, we have experimented with Linux too. We are not ignorants. Please don't try to convince us with BS arguments.

spapakons said:

we have experimented with Linux too

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I don't experiment with Linux, that I did 25 years ago. Now I just use it. Everything works more than fine.

Even if there might be one occasional command line install...who cares...I don't.

Most people here arguing, do Windows CMD or PS almost daily anyways...what's the big deal?

Linux isn't complicated to use, it's different, it's just not Windows, and will never be. Just like MacOS isn't Windows nor Linux either. Good OS that too BTW.

SlicEnDicE said:

I don't experiment with Linux, that I did 25 years ago. Now I just use it. Everything works more than fine.

Even if there might be one occasional command line install...who cares...I don't.

Most people here arguing, do Windows CMD or PS almost daily anyways...what's the big deal?

Linux isn't complicated to use, it's different, it's just not Windows, and will never be. Just like MacOS isn't Windows nor Linux either. Good OS that too BTW.

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It's not a problem with command line, I use terminal every day.
There is tons of other problems.

spapakons said:

PS: Following instructions for GUI is much easier that you think. Most options on screen are self-explanatory. All you have to do is read them, select the option you need and click next. Even a child can follow on-screen instructions and click next. Compare this with typing complex case-sensitive commands, no comparison!

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I've worked in IT for nearly 30 years. I write lots of documentation. I've spent countless hours on the phone and over screen shares saying, "up at the top, no a little higher, over there, no to you left, see that drop down, click on that drop down, now scroll down to where it says, etc......., Also, when you create a web page/wiki/or other tool to house that documentation, with Windows stuff it's just so long because there are screenshots, and you have to highlight things and circle stuff, etc. It can get cumbersome.

I like it when I can just give them a line for the terminal and they can cut and paste it, hit enter, and viola...it's all done.. Same with documentation, a couple of lines to cut and paste, makes for far easier documentation, IMHO.


End of the day, I rarely tell anybody unhappy with Windows to switch to Linux and you will be happy. It's using the right tool for the job. Even though I know Linux very well, for many of my tasks, gaming especially, Windows does just great. And we aren't in the ole Windows 98/XP days where everybody was admin on the box and things got pwnd all the time, and everybody was having to format and reinstall their systems every 6 months to keep them running well. Windows has matured substantially, and is far more safe and secure than it ever used to be.

But I think for those with curiosity to see what else is out there, Linux is fantastic. And while not the cat's pajamas for the average home desktop user, if you are going to be anywhere near a server room, it's a critical skill to possess

pparks1 said:

I've worked in IT for nearly 30 years. I write lots of documentation. I've spent countless hours on the phone and over screen shares saying, "up at the top, no a little higher, over there, no to you left, see that drop down, click on that drop down, now scroll down to where it says, etc......., Also, when you create a web page/wiki/or other tool to house that documentation, with Windows stuff it's just so long because there are screenshots, and you have to highlight things and circle stuff, etc. It can get cumbersome.

I like it when I can just give them a line for the terminal and they can cut and paste it, hit enter, and viola...it's all done.. Same with documentation, a couple of lines to cut and paste, makes for far easier documentation, IMHO.

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thats a fair point. I have dealt with that as well a few rare times. But at the same time they can mess something up far easier in a terminal than in a GUI, And the users I deal with are definitely more likely to screw something up. Luckily my users can read.

But I get that copying and pasting is far easier.

andrew129260 said:

thats a fair point. I have dealt with that as well a few rare times. But at the same time they can mess something up far easier in a terminal than in a GUI, And the users I deal with are definitely more likely to screw something up. Luckily my users can read.

But I get that copying and pasting is far easier.

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They can't, if you send them a shell script they run. Either it starts or it doesn't

...just an idea...

pparks1 said:

End of the day, I rarely tell anybody unhappy with Windows to switch to Linux and you will be happy.

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True

My experience with Linux was tons of dead links for drivers or you have to install this package to install that package but you will need these first, which can not be found...And sooner or later if you have another OS on another drive linux will hose it

SlicEnDicE said:

They can't, if you send them a shell script they run. Either it starts or it doesn't

...just an idea...

Click to expand...

If the shell script doesn't work then there's not much that can be done unless you go into debugging mode and execute it line by line -- same with Windows although I've no experience with debugging Windows scripts or /vbs things although I know it's possible - and if you want an example of a hideously complex convoluted command line - just try using the Windows powershell -- it's even more hideous since a few commands have the same name as in the standard console - but the functionality and effect are different !!!.

If you run a Linux terminal in a GUI cut and paste work just as in windows and if you press the up arrow / up key the last command you entered re-appears on the console. A 2nd press goes back one more. Not sure how many are stacked but one or two is usually more than enough.

Cheers
jimbo

Copy-paste commands is easy, but most users are afraid to even open Command Prompt or PowerShell, let alone use it. They think this is only reserved for hackers and they will screw their computer by simply looking at it.

jimbo45 said:

If the shell script doesn't work then there's not much that can be done unless you go into debugging mode and execute it line by line -- same with Windows although I've no experience with debugging Windows scripts or /vbs things although I know it's possible - and if you want an example of a hideously complex convoluted command line - just try using the Windows powershell -- it's even more hideous since a few commands have the same name as in the standard console - but the functionality and effect are different !!!.

If you run a Linux terminal in a GUI cut and paste work just as in windows and if you press the up arrow / up key the last command you entered re-appears on the console. A 2nd press goes back one more. Not sure how many are stacked but one or two is usually more than enough.

Cheers
jimbo

Click to expand...

That wasn't the point. The point was that if the user does something wrong executing a shell script, it won't run. Only wrong thing you can do is typing the name of the script wrong or double clicking the wrong file.

You are trying so hard to convince us Linux is as easy as Windows, juck click on icons. Well it isn't that easy. Also what about hardware and software compatibility? I value these much more than easy to use, that is why I also hate Mac OS.

spapakons said:

You are trying so hard to convince us Linux is as easy as Windows, juck click on icons. Well it isn't that easy. Also what about hardware and software compatibility? I value these much more than easy to use, that is why I also hate Mac OS.

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I'm not trying to convince anybody.

I only care about that it works very well for me.

Hardware compatibility isn't an issue. I use hardware that use standardised APIs instead of some exotic ones where companies has created their own proprietary bubble, UNLESS, that same company gives full support for all 3 (5 if mobile is also counted in) major OSes. That's on them companies and not Linux fault.

The manufacturer is not going to waste human resources just to make Linux drivers for 5% of Linux users. He invests on 95% of Windows users.

spapakons said:

You are trying so hard to convince us Linux is as easy as Windows, juck click on icons. Well it isn't that easy. Also what about hardware and software compatibility? I value these much more than easy to use, that is why I also hate Mac OS.

Click to expand...

I don't think anybody is saying Linux is as easy as Windows....however it has become a lot easier over the past 25 years that I have been using it, that's for sure. There is certainly a learning curve for sure. An investment of time and effort will be necessary.

Let's talk software compatibility. There are boatloads of software out there for Linux and they are compatible. But if you are deadset on having to use some software that was written and compiled and is only available in Windows....well then yeah...that's not going to be inherently compatible unless you go through the effort to try to run in Wine, or something equivalent. But I think that for a lot of people who might decide that Linux is a better fit or choice for them, I think they are also willing to find the alternative applications. For example, if I am fed up with Microsoft Windows, licensing costs, and the inability to modify the system exactly as I want, I don't see you saying, I'm going to Linux and will use Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop, to heck with MS.

Hardware compatibility, like you said, it just depends upon what type of hardware you are using. Some vendors do an outstanding job of making their drivers available and stuff just works. Other vendors, like you said, don't have a compelling reason to create a driver for hardware knowing that very few people would be using it., So, it just boils down to making sure that the hardware you want to use has support, or potentially finding another vendor who makes a a similar hardware component and has made a driver for it.

I don't think you have to worry about anybody telling you on this forum that you need to give up on Windows and choose something else. We are all Windows friendly here. But it's nice too having options like Mac and Linux and knowing a bit about all of them makes it really handy to find the right tool for the job.

pparks1 said:

I've worked in IT for nearly 30 years. I write lots of documentation. I've spent countless hours on the phone and over screen shares saying, "up at the top, no a little higher, over there, no to you left, see that drop down, click on that drop down, now scroll down to where it says, etc......., Also, when you create a web page/wiki/or other tool to house that documentation, with Windows stuff it's just so long because there are screenshots, and you have to highlight things and circle stuff, etc. It can get cumbersome.

I like it when I can just give them a line for the terminal and they can cut and paste it, hit enter, and viola...it's all done.. Same with documentation, a couple of lines to cut and paste, makes for far easier documentation, IMHO.

Click to expand...

If only more people had at least 20+ years at their disposal - to learn how to use Google and Copy + Paste...
In first 10 years - one can barely learns how to write a legible sentence on google - since smashing random buttons and writing gibberish rarely yields useful results. And thus, after 10 years one can finally finds its way to a useful support page. Then it takes another 3 years to learn how to open the Terminal - but the next step... where it asks for the Root password is where things get really hard... Even Google can be really confusing - while searching for a root password.... And that's just it: Which Root!?
Since there's a trick question there it states that i should add "My" root password... But everyone knows that humans don't have roots... so one has to spend another 7 years on a spiritual journey - searching for its roots. And only then the terminal finally opens-up allowing one - to right click on text, select it.... Copy and Paste. And boom.... at that exact time one become a Linux master!

Or at least that's how it goes for normal people. We can't all be Elon Musk.

spapakons said:

You are trying so hard to convince us Linux is as easy as Windows, juck click on icons. Well it isn't that easy. Also what about hardware and software compatibility? I value these much more than easy to use, that is why I also hate Mac OS.

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Some Linux distribution actually are this days - that being their targeted audience (Windows users who try or wanna switch to Linux for some reason) - so they've dumbed-down the GUI and way of doing things - to a Windows like experience. For example ZorinOS...


Which is something i personally dislike (cluttering a Linux Distribution to such extent - while aiming to please Windows users - that it takes away all the fun and best parts about Linux) - if anything, for a cleaner Linux experience - i prefer something like MX Linux or even Linux Mint. That's not to say - that only Debian based distributions can offer a clean experience - just something i'm more used to. Anyway, he's sharing his experience as one who's actively using both Windows and Linux - while you're sharing it as one who only tried it and hates ever since (same as others alike in this topic - or on reddit, tiktok, instagram, facebook, etc).

If you happen to buy a Mac (or get one as a gift) - and join the Mac community - you'll find a lot of OSX users sharing your exact sentiment about Windows: as the worst imaginable OS (claiming it has unstable drivers, prone to crashes/BSOD, widows updates will brake your system, gets easily infected with anything under the virtual Sun, runs very slow even on expensive hardware, a pure struggle to make anything work and so on and so forth) - while OSX is pure bliss (claiming everything just works - without any hassle). And since even there you can find users owning both a Mac and PC - no matter how many times they'll share their trouble free experience with Windows in Windows/PC related discussions - Mac users will regard/deem them as liars - on principle (goes against their shared belief about Windows - which is regard as heresy among those parts). Tho, they don't hate Linux (their sentiment about Linux is more or less Meh/whatever).

neves said:

If you happen to buy a Mac (or get one as a gift) - and join the Mac community - you'll find a lot of OSX users sharing your exact sentiment about Windows: as the worst imaginable OS (claiming it has unstable drivers, prone to crashes/BSOD, widows updates will brake your system, gets easily infected with anything under the virtual Sun, runs very slow even on expensive hardware, a pure struggle to make anything work and so on and so forth) - while OSX is pure bliss (claiming everything just works - without any hassle). And since even there you can find users owning both a Mac and PC - no matter how many times they'll share their trouble free experience with Windows in Windows/PC related discussions - Mac users will regard/deem them as liars - on principle (goes against their shared belief about Windows - which is regard as heresy among those parts). Tho, they don't hate Linux (their sentiment about Linux is more or less Meh/whatever).

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As having owned a Macbook Pro (2013) and an Apple Mac Mini (M1-2020), i can say that generally speaking they do "just work". On my 2013 MacBook, I never once had to format and reinstall the OS from scratch. I simply upgraded from version, to version, to version, to version and honestly it did just work. Eventually the newer OS's weren't supported, but you get my drift. Tools like TimeMachine are just built in, and make it drop dead simple to get back to a previous point in time, regardless if you are on the same mac or a different one.

And back in the day, Windows did have a lot of egg on their face from allowing everybody to run as an admin and viruses and malware were certainly a considerable problem. Fortunately, the vast majority of those problems have been rectified and the problems are certainly less and less these days.

I'll admit, since Windows 10, I've not really had much in terms of issues. I have windows update set to automatically update and it never causes me any problems. But to be fair, on a site like this one, you do see people who are hesitant, who want to prevent updates from installing, and take images of their machine before each and every update....so trust isn't always 100%.

As having used Windows first for about 35 years, and only having really used Mac since 2013 or so....I'm not in the camp of "once you go Mac, you never go back". There are things I really like about my Mac, but there are things in Windows I'm more comfortable with and prefer. I don't always find the Mac stuff intuitive. At my job, I had a choice of Windows or Mac, and I choose Windows.

For a learning experience, I'm actually getting ready to format and reload MacOS Sequoia onto my Mac Mini. The process is very easy and straighfoward.
1). Download the software from the Mac Store, and burn it onto a USB key
2). Boot into the installer mode and start the install
3). Activate the Mac during the install via the Internet
4). Wait for the process to finish.

Since the Mac environment is so controlled and walled off, you don't have to hunt down drivers and firmware updates to get everything up and working, it just does it's think during install. Kinda nice for the average joe who may not be savvy enough to do all that stuff.

After installing Ubuntu on a virtual machine, just to see how easy it is compared to Linux of the 90's I first used, I saw many improvements in user friendly but not quite like Windows. Then I tried to install VMWare Additions to get all the drivers and the ability to copy-paste between the host and the guest. It should be as easy as double-clicking the installer, enter your root password and proceed. No such luck, I had to use the dreadful Terminal. Then I wanted to test hardware compatibility, so I connected my printer to the guest and searched for drivers. As you expect, there were not official proprietary drivers and I had to resort to CUPS. This as explained earlier gave me the ability to print in normal quality on plain paper. Nothing more and of course I didn't like my expensive MFP treated like a cheap printer. Every other software I wanted to install that wasn't in the repository required specific Terminal commands to add its repository and install it. Not really convenient.

Linux is not Windows and never will be good as DE solution, I don't know why loonix fans spam this forum, tons of unsupported hardware is there, most popular software for Mac and Win does not work on Linux and Wine, NVIDIA drivers is totally $hit on Linux.

Communiuty is very toxic.
Loonix fans promote their shits on YouTube every day last 20 years, how many titles you can find "Time to switch to Linux...", "This is Linux year.." and etc.
Loonix fans tell you that is GIMP same as Photoshop.
Loonix fans wont tell you that you GPU is 10-15 hotter on Linux than on Win.
Loonix fans WONT tell you that their X11 has a security hole like earth which never will be fixed because Wayland coming. I hope X11 will be dead asap.
Loonix fans WONT tell you that electron based apps have a problems (I felt it when I lost all my 12 tabs from VScode)
Loonix fans wont and don't know how to help you if you have any problems, they will tell you skill issue.
Loonix fans means they are smart if they use Linux WFT ?
...to be continued...
I use Windows BTW and eat a Linux inside WSL.

Be aware!