Windows 12 ! Already....

spapakons · Jul 11, 2023

johnlgalt said:
All you need to do is enter the BIOS and change the boot device and boot.

With a dead BIOS battery you would have to enter the BIOS and configure it every time you switch on the computer. Not really convenient and very difficult/undesirable for novices.

johnlgalt · Jul 12, 2023

Which is why you replace the dead CMOS battery. or get someone to do it if ti is a hard to get to setup in a laptop.

spapakons · Jul 13, 2023

In most laptops replacing the BIOS battery requires to completely disassemble it, so you are either an experienced user or you ask a professional. If the laptop can work with a dead BIOS battery and only loses time and date I would not pay for the battery replacement. In a desktop is much easier to replace the battery but again I would not pay just for that if it doesn't have any issues. I would do it as part of a more serious repair like replacing a faulty part along with the battery. So making sure that the computer works OK with the default BIOS settings doesn't harm. So make sure the Windows disk is connected at the first SATA port if you have more than one disks so it tries to boot from there first.

Stigg · Jul 13, 2023

No problems with Windows 12 here.

johnlgalt · Jul 13, 2023

spapakons said:
In most laptops replacing the BIOS battery requires to completely disassemble it, so you are either an experienced user or you ask a professional. If the laptop can work with a dead BIOS battery and only loses time and date I would not pay for the battery replacement. In a desktop is much easier to replace the battery but again I would not pay just for that if it doesn't have any issues. I would do it as part of a more serious repair like replacing a faulty part along with the battery. So making sure that the computer works OK with the default BIOS settings doesn't harm. So make sure the Windows disk is connected at the first SATA port if you have more than one disks so it tries to boot from there first.

Most? Sorry, but highly incorrect.

A lot, sure. and some disassembly, sure. But not complete disassembly for most. I have been replacing CMOS batteries in laptops and desktops (along with performing other repairs) for 30+ years now. I've only ever had to completely teardown a laptop no more than 10 times. I've had to do a moderate amount of disassembly probably 1/3 of all installs, and some disassembly on the vast majority, with some laptops actually having direct panel access via a cover on the bottom with no disassembly.

Also, it's funny how you say you ran laptops with dead CMOS batteries, and yet are using an argument about how changing BIOS settings for boot is not feasible for novice users.

Neither is using a computer with a dead battery feasible for novice users.

With older machines BIOS manipulation was something that was done only when necessary, and by 'experts' sure (not even including the over clocking crod).

Modern machines? Hell, you need to use the UEFI just to enable XMP profiles on RAM. Sure, go ahead, run a modern UEFI board with a dead CMOS battery, so you have to go in and enable XMP on every boot.

So, yes, I firmly stand by my statement that it is just as easy ot set the bootable device in BIOS / UEFI settings.

TechnoMage2021 · Jul 13, 2023

As a PC Tech working in my own business, I've been given PC's that were listed as DEAD. And DEAD they were. No signs of life what so ever.
On one HP Desktop, upon disassembly, I pulled the CMOS battery and found it to also be DEAD. So I would leave the battery out for a while to make sure there were no alien electrons floating around in there, and then put in a NEW CMOS battery, usually a CR-2032, and plug in the PC and hit the ON button. VOILA! Life!
After making the appropriate settings in the BIOS, the PC booted up and ran great. WELL, as good as it could, with years accumulation of dirt and crap in it. But after a good tune-up and Cleaning, it did run good.

With a truly DEAD CMOS battery, it should be Impossible for any PC to boot up, even to the BIOS.
But that's only from 40+ years of experience, as a working PC Tech, so what do I know?

WAI · Jul 13, 2023

Yeah... I can see it now. Someone Downloads the Full image (I highly doubt it's 1.2GB BC once you create a USB Microsoft now will require a internet connection regardless "No more reg. Bypass mess" I can only assume now) but that's what I'm thinking. Someone will create a Full image and upload somewhere

spapakons · Jul 13, 2023

If you don't set the XMP profile you lose a little performance but the computer should work. Also you don't need to change boot priority in BIOS. You can press F12 (or F8 or F11 depending on system) and select boot device. A lot easier.

Scannerman · Jul 13, 2023

spapakons said:
If you don't set the XMP profile you lose a little performance but the computer should work. Also you don't need to change boot priority in BIOS. You can press F12 (or F8 or F11 depending on system) and select boot device. A lot easier.

Call me lazy but I hate having to boot from BIOS every time I power up my PC. I suppose it really is negligible (especially if your "PC" happens to be a laptop) but a boot screen serves a practical purpose apart from preventing the average end user from mucking about in the BIOS and making the sort of mistakes that could have been avoided. The boot screen makes booting easy and convenient.

MiguelAngel11 · Jul 13, 2023

Reading all the thread. I will get Windows 12 in a new laptop. Because it will be mandatory the Pluton chip. And 12th gen. Intel processor.

spapakons · Jul 14, 2023

That's what they think. Hopefully there will be workarounds to bypass compatibility check and install Windows 12 in any 64-bit computer with at least 2GB RAM.

Scannerman · Jul 14, 2023

I'll wait for the Plutonian II microconverter. Someone in China will develop one and it'll sell for $19.95. It will be user friendly and will work in any USB4 port. (shipping and handling not included)

spapakons · Jul 14, 2023

When trying to install Mac OS on an ordinary PC there are many hacks involved to fake your hardware and make installer think you have a real Mac. Hopefully if Microsoft goes that far to lock Windows 12 to specific hardware, there will be similar hacks to fake your PC that is fully compliant and allow you the installation. But I don't think heavy hacking will be necessary. Just the same or similar Registry keys to bypass compatibility checks. Also Rufus should adapt and make life easy for us.

Scannerman · Jul 14, 2023

spapakons said:
When trying to install Mac OS on an ordinary PC there are many hacks involved to fake your hardware and make installer think you have a real Mac. Hopefully if Microsoft goes that far to lock Windows 12 to specific hardware, there will be similar hacks to fake your PC that is fully compliant and allow you the installation. But I don't think heavy hacking will be necessary. Just the same or similar Registry keys to bypass compatibility checks. Also Rufus should adapt and make life easy for us.

With Windows 11 I've lost access to some of the features my hardware offers. Rufus won't solve this for me. If this is any indication of what Win 12 (and hacked versions of it) will be like I'll be sure to save these for simpler systems. There are several instructional videos available that provide the basics for building a Hackintosh but despite the goading of some of my fellows I've never attempted this. My main reason for not bothering to do so is simply because I have no need to. If Windows cannot meet my needs there's always Linux. For me, it is that simple.

WAI · Jul 14, 2023

You know... They'll be always hacks/workaround bc Microsoft can't hide anything bc they can't. Like IE (it's just Hidden) and the old control panel will always be there. Heck I didn't know about the shift+F10 for the reg pop up within the WiN Setup ah ha ha till I just searched the bypass those months ago

spapakons · Jul 14, 2023

Which are the features you missed in Windows 11? Make sure you have installed the official drivers, not rely only on generic drivers from Windows Update. These drivers make the hardware work but not always give you access to all the features and they sometimes have lower performance than the official drivers. Maximizing performance and enabling all features is the job of the proprietary official manufacturer drivers (I guess Linux users understand that better). Also make sure you install older applications with right-click Run as Administrator and also configure their shortcuts to Run as Administrator. My experience tells me that most application compatibility issues in Windows 8/10/11 are due to restricted access rights. Change their access rights to Administrator and ta-da! Everything works as expected. This is because Windows 7 era or older applications always assume full access to run and fail when restricted.

Scannerman · Jul 14, 2023

spapakons said:
Which are the features you missed in Windows 11? Make sure you have installed the official drivers, not rely only on generic drivers from Windows Update. These drivers make the hardware work but not always give you access to all the features and they sometimes have lower performance than the official drivers. Maximizing performance and enabling all features is the job of the proprietary official manufacturer drivers (I guess Linux users understand that better). Also make sure you install older applications with right-click Run as Administrator and also configure their shortcuts to Run as Administrator. My experience tells me that most application compatibility issues in Windows 8/10/11 are due to restricted access rights. Change their access rights to Administrator and ta-da! Everything works as expected. This is because Windows 7 era or older applications always assume full access to run and fail when restricted.

I've been installing drivers since Win 95. Win 11 doesn't support IRST, Optane, or TurboBoost Technology on my X99 platfrom. I realize this is the responsibility of the manufacturer. I realize Intel dropped support for Optane (their own product) as well. Nonetheless these features still work on Windows 7 and 8.1. I already have full administrative rights on this authentic version of Windows 11 so I know that is not the issue either. I also noted that these features work with Windows 10 on a different Intel platform so I can safely conclude that the issue is Windows 11 itself. Win 10 is still good for another 5 years, but I won't be using it on my work station. I have enough PCs to use these newer operating systems on different platforms if I need them. The real question is whether I actually need them. Meanwhile good ole Windows 7 takes a licking and keeps on ticking. It has passed the test of time. Microsoft needs to take a lesson from this and someone in their marketing dept. should consider resurrecting some of these OLD SCHOOL operating systems. They could use a brand name like WINDOWS OS (a play on Old School and Operating System). Bringing back vintage stuff is popular. Look at vinyl, vehicles, classic novels etc. The closer it can get to the original the more valuable it becomes. If the term "Old School" doesn't seem fitting, Windows Classic would certainly sell. Not everyone wants bleeding edge tech. Some people just want to have an operating system that works and works well.

spapakons · Jul 14, 2023

Have you tried to install the Intel chipset driver for Windows 7 in Windows 11? This should enable lost features. Any Vista or newer Intel chipset driver can also be installed in Windows 11. Only Intel graphics drivers for Windows 7 are locked and cannot be installed in Windows 8 and later without hacking. Any other Vista or newer driver works from Intel and other manufacturers.

johnlgalt · Jul 14, 2023

spapakons said:
If you don't set the XMP profile you lose a little performance but the computer should work. Also you don't need to change boot priority in BIOS. You can press F12 (or F8 or F11 depending on system) and select boot device. A lot easier.

Default boot device.

johnlgalt said:
Or just adjust the default boot order to your own

johnlgalt · Jul 14, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
With a truly DEAD CMOS battery, it should be Impossible for any PC to boot up, even to the BIOS.
But that's only from 40+ years of experience, as a working PC Tech, so what do I know?

I think this might have changed, though at what point I'm not sure. I do know that both my previous rig and my current rig will attempt to boot, and POST will put up dire sounding warnings about the CMOS battery to being there, and all info is default, yadda yadda, yadda, but I can usually enter Setup, adjust some settings, save and boot.

I might try exactly that with my desktop as it;s battery has to be over 4 years old, now, with the manufacture date of my mobo, so it might be a good idea to pro-actively replace it - and, naturally, since I am replacing it, it would be a god way to test my memory. I can see if it will, in fact, boot without any presence of a CMOS battery at all.

And, technically, is should - the battery is there to provide active power to store the settings (including the clock as a setting) in the CMOS / EEPROM, nothing more. It should not prevent the BIOS / UEFI from actually booting, or at the very least, attempting to boot. That would not make a lot of sense.

But, HP is ... HP. Lol. So I would not be surprised if they engineered their mobos / BIOS that way.

Could it have been a business-focused device, so as to prevent data theft from a device that had been locked down with a boot password?