Solved Macrium 8.1 is available!

ThrashZone · Jan 30, 2023

cereberus said:
On what basis do you not trust it - has it ever let you down?

Hi,
Yes creating images in the os has failed to verify, if it can't verify a system image it just made the image is not reliable in my book.
So never look back at reflect in the os.

Once you have the winpe recovery media reflect is not needed anymore.
All i do is full system images and recoveries though and yes I do recover them they aren't just for show and tell crap :zany:

Ghot · Jan 30, 2023

cereberus said:
On what basis do you not trust it - has it ever let you down?

Pure superstition. I don't believe any backup software can do things... properly... in 22 seconds.

Back on 8.0.6635, here's my new times. Backups made within Windows and restore from Rescue Media (Win 10 PE 1709),
with no RDR...

Windows 10... backup 2:25, restore 1:37
Windows 11... backup 2:18, restore 1:30

31GB on C:\ drive and backups are 14GB and change.

ThrashZone · Jan 30, 2023

geneo said:
If you have a file that has been corrupted it may not restore it (depending on how it got corrupted). For instance, I tune my memory which can result in a silent corruption, so I don't use it. Another example would be some bad driver scribbling on the disk.

Yep that is just one out of many ways reflect can fail.

cereberus · Jan 30, 2023

geneo said:
If you have a file that has been corrupted it may not restore it (depending on how it got corrupted). For instance, I tune my memory which can result in a silent corruption, so I don't use it. Another example would be some bad driver scribbling on the disk.

I don't get this argument.

RDR use the same backup and just checks to and only change sectors it needs to rather than writing all sectors.

Reflect is not a file based file based recovery system like very old backup tools - it literally copies sector data as it is in backup - it does not look to see if a file is corrupted or not.

Worst case is you redo the restore with RDR switched off.

The only time RDR should not be used is if partition sizes have changed, and it does that automatically anyway

Have you ever had an actual RDR issue, and was it repeatable?

cereberus · Jan 30, 2023

Ghot said:
Pure superstition. I don't believe any backup software can do things... properly... in 22 seconds.

Back on 8.0.6635, here's my new times. Backups made within Windows and restore from Rescue Media (Win 10 PE 1709),
with no RDR...

Windows 10... backup 2:25, restore 1:37
Windows 11... backup 2:18, restore 1:30

31GB on C:\ drive and backups are 14GB and change.

Yeah but the point is if you have not made too many changes, why restore everything - 22 seconds is perfectly believable.

It is kind of the reverse of incremental backups.

PerpetualCycle · Jan 30, 2023

I

cereberus said:
I don't get this argument.

RDR use the same backup and just checks to and only change sectors it needs to rather than writing all sectors.

Reflect is not a file based file based recovery system like very old backup tools - it literally copies sector data as it is in backup - it does not look to see if a file is corrupted or not.

Worst case is you redo the restore with RDR switched off.

The only time RDR should not be used is if partition sizes have changed, and it does that automatically anyway

Have you ever had an actual RDR issue, and was it repeatable?

I am pretty sure doesn't do a sector by sector bitwise compare, so it may not detect any silent corruption.
Yeah, I know Macrium is not file based, but that is irrelevant.
If I have some silent corruption and do an RDR and it doesn't detect it, how would I know that I would have to restore with RDR off?
No I have never had an RDR issue, but that isn't the point.

pparks1 · Jan 30, 2023

I did some quick tests on my little Beelink mini PC that I have running Windows 11. This backs up over USB 3 to an 8TB external HDD.

With Macrium 8.0, build 6867, my backup of my 65GB used C drive, took 6:06 and resulting file was 30,219,009.

I then installed Macrium8.1, rebooted, and ran the backup again.

With Macrium 8.1, build 7336, my backup of my 65GB used C drive, took 3:54 and resulting file was 30,904.198.

So if my math is right, that's 36% faster.

PerpetualCycle · Jan 30, 2023

From the Macrium Knowledgebase:

"Unlike ‘Known State’ and ‘Snapshot’ restore, the only dependency for RDR is that the target file system contains a formatted NTFS file system that is the same file system as was originally imaged. When the restore starts the disk image is loaded, again this can be an image taken at any time, and the target NTFS file system structures are analyzed for differences. All the NTFS file system structures are restored to the target disk and any that do not exist or have been modified on the target disk cause the data records for each NTFS file or object to be restored as well. The result is an ‘Incremental’ restore applying only file system changes detected between the image and the target."

So what it does is look for differences in the NTFS file system, not sectors. It only restores sectors that the NTFS system has modified ,so won't catch any silent corruption.

EDIT: I am saying I would rather be safe than sorry. Several minutes for a restore is nothing to me, so RDR is off. I make more backups than restores, so faster backups is a good thing.

Ghot · Jan 30, 2023

cereberus said:
Yeah but the point is if you have not made too many changes, why restore everything - 22 seconds is perfectly believable.

It is kind of the reverse of incremental backups.

You know me, by now. I don't really use Macrium the way the designers intended. So some things like RDR... CAN cause me problems. Please don't ask me for a dissertation proving it. I really don't want to spend 3 days, trying to remember WHY I came to these conclusions.

These days... I try to just remember the answers. All the "reasons" are back somewhere in dusty cubby holes in my brain.

cereberus · Jan 30, 2023

Ghot said:
You know me, by now. I don't really use Macrium the way the designers intended. So some things like RDR... CAN cause me problems. Please don't ask me for a dissertation proving it. I really don't want to spend 3 days, trying to remember WHY I came to these conclusions.

These days... I try to just remember the answers. All the "reasons" are back somewhere in dusty cubby holes in my brain.

Things move on though - maybe bugs in the past are no longer relevant.

Still, as you say your choice.

I have just done tests on my restore
4:30 V8.0 and V8.1 plus/minus a couple of seconds with no RDR
1:00 V8.0 and V8.1 plus/minus a couple of seconds with RDR

I just do not get any significant difference in speeds for restores between versions.

Ghot · Jan 30, 2023

cereberus said:
Things move on though - maybe bugs in the past are no longer relevant.

Still, as you say your choice.

I have just done tests on my restore
4:30 V8.0 and V8.1 plus/minus a couple of seconds with no RDR
1:00 V8.0 and V8.1 plus/minus a couple of seconds with RDR

I just do not get any significant difference in speeds for restores between versions.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm seeing what I'm seeing. I just know that I am.
I did remake the Rescue Media with the new Win 10 PE (2004).
I was using the Win 10 PE (1709)
Other than that, all I did was update from 8.0.6635 to 8.1.xxxx, and I let the software do the updating.

The only difference I've noticed is that most folks updated from 8.0.7xxx to 8.1.xxxx
I updated from a much earlier version of 8.0

Now, I'm back on 8.0.6635 and Rescue Media made with Win 10 PE (1709)

Bree · Jan 30, 2023

cereberus said:
Viboot is a separate program (also in free version). It allows you to run images as a virtual machine in Virtualbox (V7 now) and Hyper-V (if a Pro user). I test image backups with this to check image backup is sound. There is no harm installing it - you do not have to use it.

viBoot is a separate app in its own right, quite independent of Reflect. The added support for VirtualBox v7.0 is only in v8.1 Home, viBoot Free still only supports v6.0 and v6.1.

Winuser · Jan 30, 2023

Ghot said:
View attachment 51356

Years ago, my son waited in line half the night to get one of the new iPhones when it was first released.

hsehestedt · Jan 30, 2023

Ghot said:
I don't believe any backup software can do things... properly... in 22 seconds.

Maybe this time is misleading...

With changed block tracking, the time to determine a changed block is eliminated because that work has been happening in the background anytime writes to the volume have occurred. So, in 22 seconds, al it has to do is perform the backup (which may be almost zero if no / not many changes were made, some cataloging, and a few other details.

I routinely have VERY rapid backups, especially, of course, the incrementals.

mackie · Jan 30, 2023

So I guess on the free version we will stay at 8.0 throughout 2023..... and beyond?

Wisewiz · Jan 30, 2023

Ghot said:
Pure superstition. I don't believe any backup software can do things... properly... in 22 seconds.

Depends on what's being imaged/backed up, of course. My D:\ drive has my pagefile (2GB) and all 33 of my portable/standalone (i.e., uninstalled) apps and utilities on it.

TraderGary · Jan 30, 2023

My 1TB C: Drive has 361GB of used space.
8.0 took 18 minutes to make a complete image.
8.1 took 6 minutes to make a complete image.

BrianInEngland · Jan 30, 2023

TraderGary said:
My 1TB C: Drive has 361GB of used space.
8.0 took 18 minutes to make a complete image.
8.1 took 6 minutes to make a complete image.

Yes 8.1 is certainly much quicker

mackie · Jan 30, 2023

mackie said:
So I guess on the free version we will stay at 8.0 throughout 2023..... and beyond?

Ghacks quotes the service announcement from MR which states that only security patches will be provided for the remainder of the year to the Free Edition.

https://www.ghacks.net/2022/11/27/backup-software-macrium-reflect-free-is-being-retired/

fixer · Jan 30, 2023

Upgraded 8.0 to 8.1 today and wanted to know whether image file sizes have materially changed, as that is a key factor in image creation and restore times on any one system -

Win 11 incremental created in Windows with MR 8.1 - 4.82 GB
Same image booted from MR 8.0 USB recovery drive - 11.72 GB

Both had CBT and Delta Indexes for incrementals enabled. I'm impressed!

Solved Macrium 8.1 is available!

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