Windows 12 ! Already....

spapakons · Jul 4, 2023

All the above to see 0.00001% increase in performance and close to 0% added security compared to the same hardware running Windows 10/11 and you watch where you click on! You will have the pride of running the newest and latest OS but at the same time you will feel like a sucker... A small compromise for being the "coolest" guy in town running Windows 12 beta before anyone else!

Scannerman · Jul 4, 2023

spapakons said:
All the above to see 0.00001% increase in performance and close to 0% added security compared to the same hardware running Windows 10/11 and you watch where you click on! You will have the pride of running the newest and latest OS but at the same time you will feel like a sucker... A small compromise for being the "coolest" guy in town running Windows 12 beta before anyone else!

Yes! But you will get to be an "INSIDER" so you will be special. You can be the guy who replaces that beta tester who once had a paid job but now their services are no longer required because Microsoft discovered there are enough people out there who are willing to do it for free! And once you're done with that and decide you no longer want the abomination you'll get to call Microsoft and beg and plead for your original OS back. Such a privilege! :winkt:

spapakons · Jul 4, 2023

And then a simple guy bypasses compatibility check and installs Windows 12 in his ancient Intel Pentium 4* computer and spoils all the fun

*Intel Pentium 4 6xx series, socket Intel 775, first Intel 64-bit CPU family. I have installed Windows 11 in one such PC with 2GB DDR2 RAM. Not blazing fast, but workable, especially if you disable all bells and whistles (aka visual effects and background apps) to make it faster.

Scannerman · Jul 4, 2023

spapakons said:
And then a simple guy bypasses compatibility check and installs Windows 12 in his ancient Intel Pentium 4* computer and spoils all the fun

*Intel Pentium 4 6xx series, socket Intel 775, first Intel 64-bit CPU family. I have installed Windows 11 in one such PC with 2GB DDR2 RAM. Not blazing fast, but workable, especially if you disable all bells and whistles (aka visual effects and background apps) to make it faster.

Aaaw, shucks. Party pooper! But hey, if you want to roll that way with all those security holes...

TechnoMage2021 · Jul 4, 2023

The biggest security holes I've ever seen, were put there by MS! I've written batch files to remove them both. i.e., Cortana and WUDO. When I install Win-10 or Win-11, getting rid of those are at the top of my Delete List.

Actually, (shhhh) in the last few ISO's I've downloaded, those two security holes have already been eliminated.

As a hobbiest, I'm really curious to see just what Win-12 is going to look like.

spapakons · Jul 5, 2023

"Security holes" is a nice term Microsoft uses to scare us and discourage us from using old version of Windows. If every warning was to be taken seriously we would be invaded daily by millions of viruses and hackers if missing a single security update. Yes, hackers can break into your computer and take control of it and destroy all your data, but this happens with a very small possibility among thousands of vulnerable computers. Make sure you have an updated antivirus and you minimize this possibility close to zero. Most infections of viruses don't come from old unsupported OS, they come because the user clicks on a suspicious email attachment, downloads an infected file either directly (torrents and other illegal stuff) or indirectly (click yes on a suspicious message). So look where you click. It's like the well known warning "look where you put your signature and your d!ck", similarly "look where you click".

TechnoMage2021 · Jul 5, 2023

This world is a Minefield, be careful where you step!

spapakons · Jul 5, 2023

If we were going to take all these highly exaggerated warnings seriously, any computer connected to the internet is vulnerable to cyber attacks. No matter how secure you make it, you cannot make it 100% fool-proof. It takes just a single user mistake to get infected. Opening an attachment from an unknown email or clicking yes in a suspicious popup window just to get rid of it. Here in Europe with GDPR warnings in every site we are used to just click OK to proceed without reading all the popup text. We could be clicking on a fake GDPR warning and give access to a hacker, or we could click a suspicious popup window thinking it was a typical GDPR warning. Beware fellow posters.

Scannerman · Jul 5, 2023

spapakons said:
"Security holes" is a nice term Microsoft uses to scare us and discourage us from using old version of Windows. If every warning was to be taken seriously we would be invaded daily by millions of viruses and hackers if missing a single security update. Yes, hackers can break into your computer and take control of it and destroy all your data, but this happens with a very small possibility among thousands of vulnerable computers. Make sure you have an updated antivirus and you minimize this possibility close to zero. Most infections of viruses don't come from old unsupported OS, they come because the user clicks on a suspicious email attachment, downloads an infected file either directly (torrents and other illegal stuff) or indirectly (click yes on a suspicious message). So look where you click. It's like the well known warning "look where you put your signature and your d!ck", similarly "look where you click".

Indubitably, you know I was being facetious when I made that comment about "security holes". This is precisely the psychology that is being used however in the promotion of the latest and maybe not-so-greatest developments in both hardware and software these days. I would not go so far as to suggest that security is an over-rated subject but the manner in which it is being used to goad people into shelling out for systems which turn out to be no more secure than the systems they used ten years ago (and perhaps even less so) is at best ludicrous.

As spapakons states in the above, a good, reliable virus scanner makes a big difference with both old and new operating systems. They will work even on outdated operating systems and coupled with a reliable and properly configured firewall, can be even more secure than most current systems running at the domestic end user level. For example, I'm typing this on Windows 7 Ultimate and this old operating system has proven itself time and time again for reliability, stability, and durability. I run a dual VS on this PC with Kaspersky on the flip side via Win 11. For those who have Win 10 I have to give credit where it is due. Win 10 probably has the best VS Microsoft ever released and IMO it is Win 10's best feature. I just don't run Win 10 on this Work Station out of principle.

With dual boot on my work station I have that added advantage of being able to run different virus scanners without any concern for conflicts. No VS catches 'em all. Kaspersky comes close. Good computer habits also makes a big difference. Emails that are not recognizable (especially those with attachments) should be auto-deleted.

It behooves me to say that after EOL I have less issues with unsupported operating systems than I do with those being currently supported. In fact, I know of some here who just turn off their Windows updates once they have all they need to run their PC the way they wish. It really is a user preference.

spapakons · Jul 5, 2023

I am curious how a new Windows system looks. Also as a Computer Technician I must be familiar with any new version and know what the issues and limitations are and how to overcome them. So I upgraded from Windows 7 to 8. Not a very good experience, but thanks to third-party software like Classic Shell I could get the Windows 7 start button and start menu back. I then upgraded to Windows 8.1 which was an improvement over original Windows 8. Next Windows 10 and now 11. If I didn't have to familiarise with newer Windows versions and wasn't curious, I would probably still running Windows 7. The nicest interface after Windows XP. Yes, I know, I could use a virtual machine, but I wanted to test performance on bare metal. It is totally different experience to use an OS in virtual environment and use it in real hardware doing your daily stuff. When I discovered my computer is officially unsupported, I was determined to upgrade as proof of concept.

Scannerman · Jul 5, 2023

Evidently we have similar approaches. Windows 8 was a veritable nightmare for me as I lamented all the down-sizing they did to make it fit on tablets and that sort of ilk. I never really did get over it. Windows 8.1 was an improvement, but IMO not hardly an improvement over Win 7. Being involved in PC repair, PC building, and an enthusiast at that time I had to keep up with the newer tech. Windows 10 turned out to be such a huge disappointment for me. I just don't see Windows getting any better. Sure, they have endeavored to meet the interests of a new generation of users in media, gaming, and social networking, but I'm inclined to ask at what cost. This is why I concluded that I am from another time and for all intents and purposes out to pasture. I don't mind it. I don't mind helping others with what little I know. I'm certainly not about to run out and get newer hardware just to accommodate an operating system that delivers so little in the way of improvement. As it currently stands my needs and various requirements are more than met with the hardware I'm using. Frankly, the future doesn't look so good. Anyway, that's just my view.

spapakons · Jul 6, 2023

My goal is to use my current computer as long as possible. I will be the judge of when it is obsolete, not Microsoft! It is obsolete when I can no longer use it for my everyday stuff, not because officially cannot take Windows 11-12 or whatever version. I will make it take it, as long as there is a workaround. As long as there is backwards compatibility of drivers (almost any Vista 64-bit or newer driver can be used), I don't mind finding drivers for the new Windows version. Just use those for earlier versions. The same is true for applications and games. As long as I can use the old ones and they serve my needs, no sweat.

PS: Remember Intel Pentium 4? It was perfectly fine back in 2012 when Windows 8 were released, but Microsoft demanded NX/PAE support for Windows 8 32-bit. Most socket 478 motherboards and CPUs didn't support it forcing everyone to upgrade their computers. Deja vu! Windows 11 demands TPM 2.0, UEFI firmware and Secure Boot. And yes, there is a patch to run Windows 8 and 8.1 on a Pentium 4 but you have to apply it again after each cumulative update! Not really convenient. At least we need to bypass compatibility check only once a year to upgrade Windows 11 to the next version, all other updates never check compatibility, so not complaining.

Scannerman · Jul 6, 2023

Yeah, I don't see Microsnot coming to their senses and lifting the compatibility requirements. That's for sure. Windows 11 will just have to be my experiMENTAL OS I suppose. I'm just wondering how long before they come out with TPM3 considering the security issues they've already encountered with TPM2. Is it just me or does anyone else see what a charade this whole TPM thing has turned out to be?

Secure boot has made running a Linux/Windows dual boot a PITA on my work station. It used to be fine when I selected "Other OS" in the UEFI and left it like that. Now it's a nightmare. This is what I mean about Microsoft hijacking my hardware. Are they manipulating my PC so that it can only run Windows exclusively if I choose (trust) Windows?? I really should have the right to run a multi-boot system without having to make constant changes in the UEFI every time I want to switch operating systems. This is unacceptable.

spapakons · Jul 6, 2023

Couldn't just enable Secure Boot, install Windows 11 and then disable Secure Boot to dual-boot with Linux? I haven't tried.

asturias7 · Jul 7, 2023

Microsoft hints at Windows 12, explores a new floating taskbar design

Microsoft is preparing to launch Windows 12 in the fall of 2024, with a wider rollout in 2025, and it is internally experimenting with several new design ideas, including a new desktop experience with a ‘floating’ taskbar. Microsoft wants to create a floating effect for the taskbar by separating...

www.windowslatest.com

Scannerman · Jul 7, 2023

spapakons said:
Couldn't just enable Secure Boot, install Windows 11 and then disable Secure Boot to dual-boot with Linux? I haven't tried.

It's been months but I believe when I tried that method I couldn't boot back to Windows 11. To boot to Linux I have to have "other OS" enabled. Even if it is a matter of a few clicks in the UEFI each and every time it's still an unnecessary inconvenience. Especially when I had no problem booting directly from the splash screen simply by selecting which OS I wanted. I might get it worked out at some point but I'm not willing to do it if I have to sacrifice my other interfaces.

spapakons · Jul 8, 2023

You can change to Windows Boot Loader and add a boot entry for Linux instead of using Grub. An easy tool is EasyBCD but doesn't always work properly so you might have to use BCDEdit command to correct the boot entry syntax.

jimbo45 · Jul 8, 2023

Scannerman said:
It's been months but I believe when I tried that method I couldn't boot back to Windows 11. To boot to Linux I have to have "other OS" enabled. Even if it is a matter of a few clicks in the UEFI each and every time it's still an unnecessary inconvenience. Especially when I had no problem booting directly from the splash screen simply by selecting which OS I wanted. I might get it worked out at some point but I'm not willing to do it if I have to sacrifice my other interfaces.

Actually if you have the "Blue" standard Windows boot Menu - just select boot from other device == and this should show an entry fror GRUB assuming you installed Linux on its own partition (primary one -- logical partitions are a pain). At Linux install time when installing GRUB / Linux boot loader - just select "detect other OS" and it will be fine. Then Windows boot loader won't be messed up with. Grub should still be installed in the EFI partition on the boot disk.

Cheers
jimbo

Stigg · Jul 8, 2023

Windows 12 is an improvement on Windows 11.
And that's not hard to achieve.

Scannerman · Jul 8, 2023

jimbo45 said:
Actually if you have the "Blue" standard Windows boot Menu - just select boot from other device == and this should show an entry fror GRUB assuming you installed Linux on its own partition (primary one -- logical partitions are a pain). At Linux install time when installing GRUB / Linux boot loader - just select "detect other OS" and it will be fine. Then Windows boot loader won't be messed up with. Grub should still be installed in the EFI partition on the boot disk.

Cheers
jimbo

Thanks, Jimbo. I'll give it a go. I install Linux on a completely different drive. I don't do partitions with Windows on the same drive. Normally, I'd just boot from Linux to Windows because that Metro "Blue" standard constantly gave me issues. Right now it shows Win 7 U and Win 11. If I switch it to "Other OS" in the BIOS I can kiss Win 11 goodbye. Perhaps this has something to do with TPM2? Only guessing.