Windows 12 ! Already....

Scannerman said:

30 years ago I was 33.

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You've got a decade on me lol!

Scannerman said:

My Commodore 64 was a gift. So was my Tandy.

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My parents bought machines for me ~40 years ago. Ti 99-4/A, then a Tandy 1000 EX - with an extra (external) drive. No hard drive, only the dual floppies.

Ahhh, the good old days lol.

Scannerman said:

The average user does not and has no inclination to do so. When Microsoft tells them their PC is antiquated (in so many words) they dispose of it. Rarely is it 'traded in'. I was at the transfer station today, dropping off scrap metal to be recycled. I looked across the road and noticed the latest heap of desk top computers in bins was considerably bigger than three months ago. I didn't bother looking further. I know what's going on. More's the pity.

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OK, I can get behind this a bit more. There is, obviously, the whole idea of corporate planned obsolescence that is prevalent in many of our manufactured items, and yes, some (maybe even a great deal? majority, even?) people are not all that bright and think that if they need to replace something, the old thing goes in the trash.

But there is a lot more being recycled / refurbished / donated (through organizations like freecycle, for example) than is going in the dumps.

I know you keep seeing this in the dumps every day - but what you're not seeing (and thus are not able to compare with) are the numbers that are, every day, turned over to a refurbishing center.

Until you can see both sides of the story, you cannot accurately state the whole state of things from a one-sided view.

johnlgalt said:

But there is a lot more being recycled / refurbished / donated (through organizations like freecycle, for example) than is going in the dumps.

I know you keep seeing this in the dumps every day - but what you're not seeing (and thus are not able to compare with) are the numbers that are, every day, turned over to a refurbishing center.

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I can't comment on the volume of electronics devices that make it to the landfills although I do believe the number is very high. I can comment on the volume of electronic devices that do get recycled and the number 1 devices are TV sets. Most of the computers that come to our convenient center came with Windows 7 or older older operating systems. Newer computers and Apple computers are very low on the list.

To be fair, I would imagine that there are a number of other factors that influence users to toss their PCs. I'm guessing demographics also play a role. Living in this little oil rich town, I see a lot of PCs barely 5 years old being tossed and like some sort of mother hen I want to run in and rescue them but I can't because it's illegal. Still, this TPM ploy, IMO, is beyond the pale and I don't dispute that there has been a slump in desktop PC sales because it makes sense. In fact, the statements being made about this being due to more and more people keeping their PCs and upgrading them lends credence to what I'm being told here. So the planned obsolescence may not be so imaginary after all. All I know for a fact is what I've seen. Indubitably, there are more sides to this equation than I have considered and I'm not so sure I really want to. Doc says I have to watch my blood pressure now. Yup. I'm falling by the wayside. Doing what I can to avoid the 'angry old man' stereotype. Perhaps old Windows users never die. They just graduate to Linux :::shrugs::: What more can I say?

johnlgalt said:

ROTFLMFAO.

You're so wrong that this is pointless.

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Nothing wrong with what he posted. I agree. Just haplpened to misplace my key for Windows 7

Here is an opportunity for Computer Technicians. Convince the average user to upgrade to Windows 11, even if they have an unsupported computer. Bypass compatibility check and do the upgrade for them. Tell them not to worry about official Microsoft support because you are going to support them, not for free of course. And once a year when the new major version is released you can charge for the next upgrade or clean installation.

Returning to the subject of Win12, interesting article.

(excerpts)

Microsoft apparently showcased what it was working on with Windows 12 back at Build in May, with an image of a floating Taskbar alongside rounded corners in app windows.

Alongside rumors that its memory requirements could increase to 8GB double that of what Windows 11 requires, what could its codename really mean?

Hudson Valley (code name) seemingly originates from a place in New York, known for its scenery, its architecture, and even a marketing term called ‘Tech Valley’, created in 1998 as a way to promote the area for businesses such as GlobalFoundries (a spinoff of AMD) to house operations there, essentially making it a riff on the well-known Silicon Valley in Seattle.

This seems to signal that another redesign is indeed coming to Windows 12, and as leaked documents show in the ongoing trial that Microsoft is currently in to argue its point about acquiring Activision-Blizzard, Windows in the cloud is one of its long-term goals.

While the Windows 365 software suite already offers cloud functionality, it's mainly available to businesses, and it seems as though Windows 12 is going to go a step further with this for consumers like you and me.

Imagine a situation where you log in to a random PC at a library or an office, and you’re brought to the same desktop that you use on your PC at home. It could also adapt to different screen sizes and inputs, such as foldable phones and tablets, so you get the same experience regardless of which device you're using.

This could be a huge feature that changes how we Windows and all of its services, especially with gaming - after all, you can use Game Pass in the cloud already. Perhaps that was a hint towards what Microsoft wants for the cloud and its services.

I prefer accessing my own computer remotely with AnyDesk from any computer than using a cloud based version of Windows. If I need to transfer any files, I just copy and paste between the local computer and the remote, or I can use Google drive or OneDrive. As for the 8GB RAM requirement I believe is exaggerated. You should be OK with 4GB or even 2GB. In Windows 11 4GB is convenient but you are OK with 2GB. 1GB is slower but I could get used to it. As long as you don't load more than two applications at the same time or use less than 5 tabs when browsing, you could go with 1GB. Of course the more the better.

Thing is, though, that Windows 10 is still fine. If people don't understand that they don't need to run Windows 11 if they don't have reliable TPM suport, well, that's their problem. Microsoft has clearly and repeatedly made it clear that Windows 10 is supported, and is still good for at least another 2+ years. Should be 3+, technically.

Windows 10 will be usable after EOL in 2025 for as long as it serves ones needs. For a typical office computer one will be able to use Windows 10 until there is an Office version or browser that cannot install on Windows 10 and demand 11 or higher and last compatible versions cannot open all files or sites. That is at least 3-5 years after EOL. In comparison Microsoft Edge has stopped in version 109 for Windows 7, but you can still open any site with this version, is not yet obsolete. Similarly last supported Office is 2016, but it is not yet obsolete. I think Windows 7 will be at Windows XP status (marginally usable) after 2-3 more years. Likewise Windows 10 will be marginally usable in 2030 or later, so no worries here.

Just seen this post and I am really disappointed with the way things are going - why cannot Microsoft leave the OS alone for a reasonable length of time? I am also wondering (have not read every reply) if this will be the end of 11 so when will that be and also if it will be a free upgrade?
As I said I am thoroughly sick of the nonsense that seems to be the go at the moment.

Windows 11 should be EOL at least ten years after first release, this is 2031. By then we will probably argue about Windows 13 or 14. If they would keep the OS as it is and release only upgrades they would not have much profit. They tried it with Windows 10 that they stated it would be the last OS, but eventually they released Windows 11 to maximize their profits. They even tried to convince us that 11 is much more advanced than Windows 10 and we should replace our systems. B*llsh*t. They are exactly the same as Windows 10 64-bit with a different skin. I have not yet found anything in Windows 11 that is not present in Windows 10. The user interface changed slightly to make us think is different OS. Even the kernel version is the same 10.0.xxxxx

csun said:

Imagine a situation where you log in to a random PC at a library or an office, and you’re brought to the same desktop that you use on your PC at home.

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Imagine a situation where your device may as well be a paper weight because you're in a area without internet. As long as it's a choice and not mandatory I'm ok with it. If it's mandatory I'll go back to Linux.

spapakons said:

They tried it with Windows 10 that they stated it would be the last OS

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It was said by an employee of MS an not by MS.

Winuser said:

Imagine a situation where your device may as well be a paper weight because you're in a area without internet. As long as it's a choice and not mandatory I'm ok with it. If it's mandatory I'll go back to Linux.

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This is exactly the case with a Chromebook. Without internet connection it is pretty useless. No thanks, I prefer a local independent computer over an internet thin client. Similarly I prefer my music and videos in local files I can use any time than depend on Netflix or other service to access them. Some movies are not available for ever on Netflix, they have an expiration date after which are no longer online.

spapakons said:

Windows 11 should be EOL at least ten years after first release, this is 2031. By then we will probably argue about Windows 13 or 14. If they would keep the OS as it is and release only upgrades they would not have much profit. They tried it with Windows 10 that they stated it would be the last OS, but eventually they released Windows 11 to maximize their profits. They even tried to convince us that 11 is much more advanced than Windows 10 and we should replace our systems. B*llsh*t. They are exactly the same as Windows 10 64-bit with a different skin. I have not yet found anything in Windows 11 that is not present in Windows 10. The user interface changed slightly to make us think is different OS. Even the kernel version is the same 10.0.xxxxx

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Yes mate I do hope you are right I think we as dedicated and loyal Windows OS consumers deserve better than this nonsense every few months it seems. I do hope that 11 carries on for as long as you say as I am thoroughly sick of the shenanigans they insist on putting out!!

ICIT2LOL said:

Yes mate I do hope you are right I think we as dedicated and loyal Windows OS consumers deserve better than this nonsense every few months it seems. I do hope that 11 carries on for as long as you say as I am thoroughly sick of the shenanigans they insist on putting out!!

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The main difference between Win 10 and Win 11 is TPM2. Since TPM has been around for over a decade and has repeatedly failed to prove itself as a viable security feature, one cannot help but to wonder what the fuss is about. Surely there must be something more. Well, there is. A new OS will mean more profit — even if it's a re-work of the same old, same old re-regurgitation of the reversions of the per-versions Win 10 was and is. Surely it has nothing to do with the greatest slump in desktop sales since the turn of the millennium. No, that's just coincidence. The Consortium (founded in 1999) that speaks for the lion's share of the hardware that PC users enjoy has a great deal invested in TPM and is prepared to cram it down our throats whether we want it or not.

So, some of us can appreciate this Windows 12 Already parody. It's laughable. Frankly, I'm bracing myself to see TPM3 march around the corner any time soon. Perhaps they'll take it easy on us and come out with a new version of TPM in the system requirements with each "new version" of Windows. That way we will have to only buy a new system board (and associated hardware) with each version of Windows to keep up with those requirements. Either way, I'm not holding my breath. I could have been a little more tolerant of TPM if it delivered on its assurances, but as they say in baseball, three strikes... YER OUT!

spapakons said:

This is exactly the case with a Chromebook. Without internet connection it is pretty useless. No thanks, I prefer a local independent computer over an internet thin client. Similarly I prefer my music and videos in local files I can use any time than depend on Netflix or other service to access them. Some movies are not available for ever on Netflix, they have an expiration date after which are no longer online.

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During the Covid ordeal the school sent my daughters home with Chromebooks. The next day I sent them back to school with those abominations and furnished each of them with dependable laptops. Those girls don't look sideways at a Chromebook now.

Scannerman said:

The main difference between Win 10 and Win 11 is TPM2. Since TPM has been around for over a decade and has repeatedly failed to prove itself as a viable security feature, one cannot help but to wonder what the fuss is about. Surely there must be something more. Well, there is. A new OS will mean more profit — even if it's a re-work of the same old, same old re-regurgitation of the reversions of the per-versions Win 10 was and is. Surely it has nothing to do with the greatest slump in desktop sales since the turn of the millennium. No, that's just coincidence. The Consortium (founded in 1999) that speaks for the lion's share of the hardware that PC users enjoy has a great deal invested in TPM and is prepared to cram it down our throats whether we want it or not.

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Yes mate and I for one run Windows 11pro on an unsupported hardware version and it works perfectly well. Plus that it means more financially to them is just sickening as they let down the many other followers of Windows who cannot do that even.

TPM 2.0 is an excuse to replace our PCs. It is not necessary to run Windows 11. Also Windows 10 64-bit can use it but it doesn't demand that you have it. It's all about profit. At least so far we have a fully working version of Windows not a stupid thin client dependent on internet availability. They better leave cloud optional and keep Windows 12 fully functional as the previous versions or many would abandon the Windows platform and turn to Linux. It will be a VERY stupid move. Many admire the lightweight Chromebooks, their simplicity and low price until they realize their limitations and look elsewhere. Please Microsoft don't make Windows as useless as Chrome OS. Thanks.

ICIT2LOL said:

Yes mate and I for one run Windows 11pro on an unsupported hardware version and it works perfectly well. Plus that it means more financially to them is just sickening as they let down the many other followers of Windows who cannot do that even.

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spapakons said:

TPM 2.0 is an excuse to replace our PCs. It is not necessary to run Windows 11. Also Windows 10 64-bit can use it but it doesn't demand that you have it. It's all about profit. At least so far we have a fully working version of Windows not a stupid thin client dependent on internet availability. They better leave cloud optional and keep Windows 12 fully functional as the previous versions or many would abandon the Windows platform and turn to Linux. It will be a VERY stupid move. Many admire the lightweight Chromebooks, their simplicity and low price until they realize their limitations and look elsewhere. Please Microsoft don't make Windows as useless as Chrome OS. Thanks.

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I'm old and jaded now. I don't even care what Microsoft does with anything following Windows 10 anymore. I've learned how to eliminate most of the garbage in 10 now. I've learned how to put Win 11 on non-supported systems but I don't really think I need it. There's this thing called Linux and so far it isn't asking for any bogus requirements. The essential Windows-based software I run will work offline and it doesn't need a TPM platform to work. In fact, I can even download stuff for Windows on Linux and keep Windows air-gapped if I like, so the future looks good.
I can watch YouTube videos, visit forums like this one, use my e-mail, and even make online purchases safely on Linux. I'm sorry Windows is evidently doing all that they can to stop me from running both Windows and Linux on the same PC, but there are still ways around this. I still own my own hardware. I feel sorry for gamers who can't play their favourite games on Linux because I don't think Microsoft is about to change their ways, even with their bogus answer to a Linux kernel. (Is that even a thing anymore in Win 11?) I've already told my family I won't be using any more Windows OS following Win 11 unless Microsoft drops all these bogus hardware requirements and I definitely won't be upgrading to them. They can go pound sand.
Seriously. Linux isn't so bad. And it just keeps getting better. Plus it's free. But I'm not entirely without vision: I've already seen the future and I don't want to live there. I don't want AGI. I don't need large language. I have no use for chat GPT. I have every reason to believe that the likes of Microsoft and Google are preparing to assault me with these things, so this old man will just drop by the wayside and let the parade march on. The corporate body no longer impresses me.