Windows 12 ! Already....

James said:

If I needed a laptop for about £300, I would never get a brand new one.

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Me neither. My System One cost me £220 (£290 if you include the 1TB SSD I treated it to a year later).

Bree said:

I've never bought a new laptop,

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Every new laptop that my wife bought from the local big chain brick and mortar store turned out to be junk. The one AIO she bought was junk until I found out how to open it up and replace the HDD with a new SSD. We still have it. We just don't use it anymore. We have never had any problems with any of the OEM refurbished laptops from Micro Center. I can truthfully say that everyone of them that we no longer own were given to family members and are still being used.

To Apple fans: If Apple decides your hardware is old and wants you to replace it, they simply deny you to upgrade to the new iOS or Mac OS. Yes, you can trick it and install the new version but hardly any Mac user does that, let alone is aware of this possibility and it is not guaranteed to work. A PC user can install Windows 10 or 11 to any old computer, even 20 years old with the same drivers and have a usable system. Macs one or two years after their last supported OS is EOL they can't install or upgrade any application since they all demand a newer Mac OS version. In layman's terms it is preferable to have Windows XP than any unsupported Mac OS version. Sounds familiar? Think twice before replying.

I've only purchased one laptop brand new and I'm sorry I did. I had to send it back because it was on warranty and it had a battery issue right out of the box. Unlike most laptops the battery is not externally accessible and this is not an easy laptop to crack open. Not very user friendly at all. Sure, it's light, thin, and has a touch screen (which is really a PITA imo) but options are limited and I use it maybe 2 or 3 times a year because my other laptops are more practical. I suppose I'm just an old stick in the mud but I do like my options and my ports. I'm not much of a laptop user either. Anyway, lesson learned: Newer is not necessarily better.

Judging by my system 775LGA isn't going anywhere. I suspect 12 to run and Hacks be Ready as always ofc

johnlgalt said:

Conversely, there is also the crowd that builds to last. Up until 202, when I built the rig in my specs, I was running a Core i7 965 EE on an X58 platform - BIOS, not UEFI, and even then I ran Windows 10 for 5 years on it.

Not everyone with new stuff replaces it in mere months. My rig is now officially 3 years old - and I don't see any real upgrades coming up, any time soon. I may not go the full 9 years I went with the last one, but I'm definitely not upgrading anything in the next couple of years, for sure.

Not to mention, a great deal of people who tend to buy new devices all the time are either 1) Selling their old devices, or 2) trading them in to buy new devices. They're not just buying a new device and throwing the old ones away, not the majority of new device purchasers, well over 75%.

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I would have to agree that there is the crowd that builds to last and I have the proof of it in my basement. Two of my daughters are still running X58 platforms and I can't pry those PCs away from them or even bribe them to give up those units. Indeed, that's BIOS - not UEFI. They will play games on their friends computers and use other PCs and tell me they're much happier with what they have. In fact, I have to change out the system board on one because it has some bad caps now (fortunately I have a spare identical system board for it). Despite the rounded and leaky caps the thing keeps right on running. Those old Bloomfield CPUs are really something else.

Hardly anyone replaces their PC in a matter of months but I can vouch for the number of PCs I've snagged out of the transfer station that were but 5 years old. When Win 11 was released only people with PCs that were 3 years old or newer qualified for the official upgrade because anything older didn't have TPM2. This is ridiculous.

Even if only 25% of domestic end users discard PCs that were say, ten years old I would say that this is a significant amount. A lot of those trade-ins wind up in the trash and selling old devices can be risky business. The average end user isn't a PC builder and more often than not when something isn't working up to par on their PC they just replace it with a new one. Sooner or later we know where these wind up. Indubitably, the more tech savy will refurbish and resell, but we are talking exceptions here and the exception only proves the rule.

James said:

I have to disagree massively with this post.

First of all - apple products are renowned for their long life compared to competitors - android phones. Android phones - sure you can carry on using them for as long as you like, but they will NOT get updates after 3,2 even 1 years. (Longest life ones currently about 4 or 5 years), whereas apple phones keep on going for up to 7 years now.

Secondly - you can keep using your Windows PC for as long as it serves your needs. Your statement here, whilst sort of true can be applicable with everything. Whether that is a toaster or a 10 year old android phone. You can carry on using these devices - whilst they serve your needs. What my point is, is that you can say this for pretty much anything, not just windows PCs.

And finally - say you have a 10 year old PC that came with W7 requirements. It is NOT going to run windows 10 or 11, and if you keep it on W7 there are the added security risks, not to mention app compatibility.

I'm sorry if this post was a bit long-winded, and normally I do not post to debate with others opinions, but this time I thought I had to say what the facts are.

I am not denying that apple have their problems. They are expensive for many people.

On a different note, although you mention windows pcs, eventually when W7 (continuing my previous example) had its life ended, you could use a lightweight linux distro which is something you can't do on iPhones.

So I am not completely 100% disagreeing with you here - or asking for argument. Just sharing a) Facts and b) an extension to your post.

Have a good day

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A 10 year old PC CAN run Win 10 -- win 10 still also has 32 bit versions well.If it can run W7 it can run W10.

Cheers
jimbo

Winuser said:

We used to have computer fairs in my area. When I wanted a new desktop I would go to what ever computer fair was going on at the time. I would check out all of the vendors and choose the one that gave me the most bang for my buck. They would build the computer to customers specs while they waited. There was only one time I had to go to the shop the next day and pick up my computer. I got there to late and the vendors had to be out at a certain time. Now the only computer fairs that I know of are over a hundred miles away and I would have to drive through Baltimore Maryland. Something I will only do if I have to. The closest I come to building my own system was the couple of times I replaced the motherboard. I don't count the time I replaced a CPU or the many times I replaced hardware or memory as building my own.

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Computer fairs sound great! And you can presumably then see the hardware and select from a compatible choice? Much easier than doing it all online in my opinion

jimbo45 said:

A 10 year old PC CAN run Win 10 -- win 10 still also has 32 bit versions well.If it can run W7 it can run W10.

Cheers
jimbo

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Yes indeed. I have a Dell PC that is 16 years old. It has Windows 10 32 bit on it and it runs snappier than it did with the original OS that it came with (Windows Vista). It also activated with the Windows 7 key that came directly from Dell it runs fine despite the 4GB RAM cap. I still have the original Windows 7 Disc for it but I've never had to roll back. Zero issues in device manager.

My point exactly. My test laptop (1st system specs) of 2009 CAN run Windows 10 32-bit and 64-bit and Windows 11. A same era Macbook cannot run a new version of Mac OS, probably stuck at Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion at most, which by today standards is USELESS. Almost all new versions of applications ask for at least Mac OS X 10.12 or even 10.15. At least you can save an Intel based Mac by installing Windows. In newer Apple Silicon Macs (M2 series) you can't even do that. Yet another reason to switch to PCs

spapakons said:

My point exactly. My test laptop (1st system specs) of 2009 CAN run Windows 10 32-bit and 64-bit and Windows 11. A same era Macbook cannot run a new version of Mac OS, probably stuck at Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion at most, which by today standards is USELESS. Almost all new versions of applications ask for at least Mac OS X 10.12 or even 10.15. At least you can save an Intel based Mac by installing Windows. In newer Apple Silicon Macs (M2 series) you can't even do that. Yet another reason to switch to PCs

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Alas, we are from another time. The majority of young adults today will take a tablet over a laptop. A greater majority of not so young adults will take a laptop over a desktop PC. Traditional PCs are vast becoming a niche class. Before long they will be relegated to the status of novelty items at the domestic end user level.

Unless you need it for work or serious gaming. The best gaming laptop is not match for a proper gaming desktop. A large monitor and full size keyboard and mouse are much more convenient for either work or playing games.

spapakons said:

Unless you need it for work or serious gaming. The best gaming laptop is not match for a proper gaming desktop. A large monitor and full size keyboard and mouse are much more convenient for either work or playing games.

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This is true, but work tends to fall on the corporate side of life and high end gaming is niche. It's amazing how much people are prepared to sacrifice performance for convenience, hence the big push for gaming laptops. As for online gaming, more and more people are playing those sorts of games on cell phones and tablets. The trend is irrefutable. Personally, I'm thinking we have the hard core gamers to thank for keeping the desk top market alive at the domestic end user level.

I am 74 now Windows 11 will be my last upgrade

You mean your last upgrade for this computer... By 2025 you may have upgraded it (if possible) or replaced it. Never say never.

Scannerman said:

The average end user isn't a PC builder and more often than not when something isn't working up to par on their PC they just replace it with a new one.

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As they do with their phones, their networking routers, their TVs, their cars, their refrigerators, their washers and dryers, their dishwashers, ...

Need I go on?

jimbo45 said:

A 10 year old PC CAN run Win 10 -- win 10 still also has 32 bit versions well.If it can run W7 it can run W10.

Cheers
jimbo

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My own PC was the exact example of that. James should re-read my post.

James said:

And finally - say you have a 10 year old PC that came with W7 requirements. It is NOT going to run windows 10 or 11, and if you keep it on W7 there are the added security risks, not to mention app compatibility.

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Absolutely incorrect.

johnlgalt said:

Up until 2020, when I built the rig in my specs, I was running a Core i7 965 EE on an X58 platform - BIOS, not UEFI, and even then I ran Windows 10 for 5 years on it.

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From WIkipedia:


The Core i7 965 Extreme Edition was released in 2008. I built my rig using that CPU in 2011. I replaced it in 2020, when it was 9 years old. At that time it was running Windows 10, as I noted earlier.

I was highly active on the Windows 10 forums, including running Insider Preview builds on it live, and have many hundreds of posts over there showing what I was running and what my hardware setup was. it's indisputable fact that that machine ran Windows 10 despite not having UEFI, only BIOS, and thus making us of an MBR-based boot drive instead of GPT.

So, please, don't go there. That CPU is 15 years old this year, and it will still run Windows 10 perfectly fine.

johnlgalt said:

Absolutely incorrect.



From WIkipedia:

Bloomfield (microprocessor) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Core i7 965 Extreme Edition was released in 2008. I built my rig using that CPU in 2011. I replaced it in 2020, when it was 9 years old. At that time it was running Windows 10, as I noted earlier.

I was highly active on the Windows 10 forums, including running Insider Preview builds on it live, and have many hundreds of posts over there showing what I was running and what my hardware setup was. it's indisputable fact that that machine ran Windows 10 despite not having UEFI, only BIOS, and thus making us of an MBR-based boot drive instead of GPT.

So, please, don't go there. That CPU is 15 years old this year, and it will still run Windows 10 perfectly fine.

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My daughters X58 is doing fine with an i7 960, 24GB of system RAM, and a modest MSI 1050 Ti graphics card. She also has it configured for multi-boot and runs Win7, Win8, Win 10, Linux Mint, and Win 11 on the thing! (Of course I had to tweak Win 11 for her). She has quite the menu to play around with and all the OS work just fine. So I can vouch for that. I also have to say that I have a much harder time keeping multi-boot running in UEFI than in real BIOS. Probably one more reason I can't convince her to upgrade her PC. She keeps on insisting that it's fast enough for her. X58 was built to last.

johnlgalt said:

As they do with their phones, their networking routers, their TVs, their cars, their refrigerators, their washers and dryers, their dishwashers, ...

Need I go on?

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Nope. More's the pity.