Windows 12 ! Already....


I do understand what your saying. I just don't agree with it being the answer for the future. Eventually that refurbed device is going to make it to the scrap pile. Also not every refurbished devices are from a trade-ins. It's quicker and easier for companies to just replace the devices with ones that are already refurbished and ready to go. How long would you be willing to wait for your phone to be fixed? Unless you can get a loaner phone your going to want it returned as soon as possible.
I can see your points also, but at this point for me refurbished was the answer anyway as it is cheaper :-)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 3 3100
    Motherboard
    Asus ROG Strix b450-f
    Memory
    Corsair 8GB x 2 (16GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus Nvidia Geforce GTX 1650 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 27" 1440p
    Screen Resolution
    1440p
    Hard Drives
    Seagate Barracuda 1TB
    256GB NVME Seagate Barracuda
    Browser
    Firefox / Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Amd E2
    Memory
    4GB
    Hard Drives
    128GB SSD
I can see your points also, but at this point for me refurbished was the answer anyway as it is cheaper :-)
You have to admit that from a business standpoint, it just does not work and I am sure that manufacturers are not too keen on that option.
In your case, however, it was an intelligent move and you should be commended.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF Gaming FX705GM
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz Intel i7-8750H Hyper-threaded 12 cores
    Motherboard
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. FX705GM 1.0
    Memory
    24428 Megabytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) Display Audio / Realtek(R) Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Integrated Monitor (17.3"vis)
    Screen Resolution
    FHD 1920X1080 16:9
    Hard Drives
    2 SSD SATA/NVM Express 1.3
    WDS500G2B0A-00SM50 500.1 GB
    WDCSDAPNUW-1002 256 GB
    PSU
    19V DC 6.32 A 120 W
    Cooling
    Dual Fans
    Mouse
    MS Bluetooth
    Internet Speed
    Fiber 1GB Cox -us & 400MB Orange-fr
    Browser
    Edge Canary- Firefox Nightly-Chrome Dev
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    VMs of Windows 11 stable/Beta/Dev/Canary
    VM of XeroLinux- Arch based & Debian 12
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Insider Canary
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS X751BP
    CPU
    AMD Dual Core A6-9220
    Motherboard
    ASUS
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    AMD Radeon R5 M420
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17.3
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900 16:9
    Hard Drives
    1TB 5400RPM
I have to agree. I do a good deal of refurbishing myself. It's a sound economical approach and it helps keep these units out of the land fill. Of course there is the crowd who wants the latest and greatest of everything and refuses to make these concessions. Windows 11 did pose a bit of a problem for refurbishing units that didn't come with TPM2 onboard. I'd say that for the average domestic end user refurbishing is the cat's meow.

Conversely, there is also the crowd that builds to last. Up until 2020, when I built the rig in my specs, I was running a Core i7 965 EE on an X58 platform - BIOS, not UEFI, and even then I ran Windows 10 for 5 years on it.

Not everyone with new stuff replaces it in mere months. My rig is now officially 3 years old - and I don't see any real upgrades coming up, any time soon. I may not go the full 9 years I went with the last one, but I'm definitely not upgrading anything in the next couple of years, for sure.

Not to mention, a great deal of people who tend to buy new devices all the time are either 1) Selling their old devices, or 2) trading them in to buy new devices. They're not just buying a new device and throwing the old ones away, not the majority of new device purchasers, well over 75%.
 
Last edited:

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    Arctic Liquid Freezer III 420 RGB + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge , Arc
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
This is why refurbished is the answer for the future. I got my phone refurbished, half the price of brand new, just 2 years old and as if it was fresh from the factory, not a mark!

Until you realize that a 2 year old phone may get 1 year of software and security upgrades, depending upon the manufacturer.

While I applaud refurbished items, and make use of some myself, and have sold some myself as well, it 's not always the answer. But it is always something to be considered, which most people probably don't.

Then again, I baby my devices, and have every cell phone I've ever owned since 2009 (all 6). They are in working order, too. So...people who don't take care of devices, are probably the same ones that also don't go for refurbished ones, and again, the problem is with the humans, not the software devs or the manufacturers, other than the limit on software updates for older devices. But I doubt if the people who put the longevity of thh device with software updates and security updates as a top three reason amount to more than 25% of all people who continually buy new things.

And, to be fair to everyone, a lotof people must be making use of refurbished items as well, particularly electronics, otherwise places like eBay and Swappa would not exist at all.

Which leads right back to my argument about the eWaste accumulation arguments being rubbish.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    Arctic Liquid Freezer III 420 RGB + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge , Arc
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
You have to admit that from a business standpoint, it just does not work and I am sure that manufacturers are not too keen on that option.
In your case, however, it was an intelligent move and you should be commended.
Then why do retailers offer trade-in subsidies on a large plethora of devices?

If they had no mechanism to turn around and make money off those devices they accept as trade-ins, for people who are perfectly happy with a refurbished / renewed device, do you really believe there would still be a market for trading in older devices to get current devices, not to mention sites like eBay and Swappa where used devices get sold constantly?
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 23H2 Current build
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
    Motherboard
    MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
    Memory
    4 * 32 GB - Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA GAMING (12G-P5-3955-KR)
    Sound Card
    Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2x Eve Spectrum ES07D03 4K Gaming Monitor (Matte) | Eve Spectrum ES07DC9 4K Gaming Monitor (Glossy)
    Screen Resolution
    3x 3840 x 2160
    Hard Drives
    3x Samsung 980 Pro NVMe PCIe 4 M.2 2 TB SSD (MZ-V8P2T0B/AM) } 3x Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1 TB SSD (USB)
    PSU
    PC Power & Cooling’s Silencer Series 1050 Watt, 80 Plus Platinum
    Case
    Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark ATX Full Tower Case
    Cooling
    Arctic Liquid Freezer III 420 RGB + Air 3x 140mm case fans (pull front) + 1x 120 mm (push back) and 1 x 120 mm (pull bottom)
    Keyboard
    SteelSeries Apex Pro Wired Gaming Keyboard
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S | MX Master 3 for Business
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
    Browser
    Nightly (default) + Firefox (stable), Chrome, Edge , Arc
    Antivirus
    Defender + MB 5 Beta
  • Operating System
    ChromeOS Flex Dev Channel (current)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E5470
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Motherboard
    Dell
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) HD Graphics 520 + RealTek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell laptop display 15"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 * 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 128GB M.2 22300 drive
    INTEL Cherryville 520 Series SSDSC2CW180A 180 GB SATA III SSD
    PSU
    Dell
    Case
    Dell
    Cooling
    Dell
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3S (shared w. Sys 1) | Dell TouchPad
    Keyboard
    Dell
    Internet Speed
    AT&T LightSpeed Gigabit Duplex Ftth
Windows 12 is being tested as the Canary Channel.

How do you know this? Please post a link. If true, I've got two VMware 17 VM on a software RAID 0 I hope to keep. I'll back them up once I see Canary moving in the direction you indicatae.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Fedora Rawhide, Garuda,, Debian Trixie
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HomeBrew
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-Core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte
    Memory
    64GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell
    Hard Drives
    3 ssd 2 spinners configured as raid 0
    Keyboard
    Eluktronics
    Mouse
    Eluktronics
    Browser
    Firefox and Chromium
    Other Info
    Gnome 46
I'd be lost without them. Makes working on other PCs so much easier.


@Scannerman

Still the best Windows GUI etc -- Windows XP running in a VM with Lunar black theme.

Ms should have persevered with Windows XP -- much better from a Users point of view than current W11 -- of course security etc needed to be fixed though.


Screenshot_20230625_183956.png

Better fonts all round -- Network mapping worked decently etc etc.

cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF Gaming FX705GM
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz Intel i7-8750H Hyper-threaded 12 cores
    Motherboard
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. FX705GM 1.0
    Memory
    24428 Megabytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) Display Audio / Realtek(R) Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Integrated Monitor (17.3"vis)
    Screen Resolution
    FHD 1920X1080 16:9
    Hard Drives
    2 SSD SATA/NVM Express 1.3
    WDS500G2B0A-00SM50 500.1 GB
    WDCSDAPNUW-1002 256 GB
    PSU
    19V DC 6.32 A 120 W
    Cooling
    Dual Fans
    Mouse
    MS Bluetooth
    Internet Speed
    Fiber 1GB Cox -us & 400MB Orange-fr
    Browser
    Edge Canary- Firefox Nightly-Chrome Dev
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    VMs of Windows 11 stable/Beta/Dev/Canary
    VM of XeroLinux- Arch based & Debian 12
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Insider Canary
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS X751BP
    CPU
    AMD Dual Core A6-9220
    Motherboard
    ASUS
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    AMD Radeon R5 M420
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17.3
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900 16:9
    Hard Drives
    1TB 5400RPM
So that you buy a new one!
It's called UPSELLING.

As for networking -- XP seems to have no probs even connecting to large HDD's on NAS servers via SAMBA -- W11 is often hit and miss with regard to networking and file sharing.

XP networking for example to a NAS (Linux SAMBA based).

Screenshot_20230625_184528.png

cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows XP,7,10,11 Linux Arch Linux
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    2 X Intel i7

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF Gaming FX705GM
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz Intel i7-8750H Hyper-threaded 12 cores
    Motherboard
    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. FX705GM 1.0
    Memory
    24428 Megabytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
    Sound Card
    Intel(R) Display Audio / Realtek(R) Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Integrated Monitor (17.3"vis)
    Screen Resolution
    FHD 1920X1080 16:9
    Hard Drives
    2 SSD SATA/NVM Express 1.3
    WDS500G2B0A-00SM50 500.1 GB
    WDCSDAPNUW-1002 256 GB
    PSU
    19V DC 6.32 A 120 W
    Cooling
    Dual Fans
    Mouse
    MS Bluetooth
    Internet Speed
    Fiber 1GB Cox -us & 400MB Orange-fr
    Browser
    Edge Canary- Firefox Nightly-Chrome Dev
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    VMs of Windows 11 stable/Beta/Dev/Canary
    VM of XeroLinux- Arch based & Debian 12
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Insider Canary
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS X751BP
    CPU
    AMD Dual Core A6-9220
    Motherboard
    ASUS
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    AMD Radeon R5 M420
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17.3
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900 16:9
    Hard Drives
    1TB 5400RPM
I know right guy's...

If a new update build isn't listing on the updates I do this: I DL from Microsoft/UUPDUMP and I use Rufus 3.18 for the BYPASS (the latest version don't "to me" have it no more) to create the USB [Both MBR/UEFI] I then extract it and with IMGBurn them I use the "etfs" boot file to make the ISO Bootable then I upload the files to my Google Drive

MBR UEFI
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    WiN11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom 775 System
    CPU
    Xeon E5450 3.0GHZ (OC 3.6GHZ)
    Motherboard
    ASUS PQ5-EM
    Memory
    8GB (2GBX4)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1080p
    Hard Drives
    1TB|750GB USB, 3 SSDs 2 240GB 1 128GB, 750GB HDD
    PSU
    650WATT Rosewill
    Case
    Rosewill with side Window
    Cooling
    5 Fans and a big HSK for cpu
    Keyboard
    Rosewill RGB
    Mouse
    Rosewill RGB
    Internet Speed
    AT&T 150MB DL\UP
    Browser
    FireFox
    Antivirus
    None
    Other Info
    I'm lucky to even be here after 6yrs from my car accident
  • Operating System
    WiN10 LTSC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Hp 8460p
    CPU
    i7 2670QM 2.20GHZ
    Motherboard
    Hp 161C
    Memory
    8GB (2X4GB) DUAL Channel
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel HD Graphics 3000
    Sound Card
    Intel high Def (basically onboard)
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    OS 128GB l Storage (caddy) 320GB
    PSU
    AC (IDK the watts)
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    A USB 3.0 in the Express Card Slot
Until you realize that a 2 year old phone may get 1 year of software and security upgrades, depending upon the manufacturer.
It's apple - so it gets about 4 more years.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 3 3100
    Motherboard
    Asus ROG Strix b450-f
    Memory
    Corsair 8GB x 2 (16GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus Nvidia Geforce GTX 1650 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 27" 1440p
    Screen Resolution
    1440p
    Hard Drives
    Seagate Barracuda 1TB
    256GB NVME Seagate Barracuda
    Browser
    Firefox / Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Amd E2
    Memory
    4GB
    Hard Drives
    128GB SSD
  • Like
Reactions: OAT
That's one of the many reasons I don't like Apple products. They get obsolete in a couple of years while you can keep using your Windows PC for as long as it serves your needs. Also the price difference (up to four times up) for the same PC hardware is ridiculous.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (build 22631.4249) test laptop, Windows 11 Pro v24H2 (build 26100.2894) main PC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Extensa 5630EZ
    CPU
    Mobile DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo T7250, 2000 MHz
    Motherboard
    Acer Extensa 5630
    Memory
    4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Mobile Intel(R) GMA 4500M (Mobile 4 series)
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC268 @ Intel 82801IB ICH9 - High Definition Audio Controller
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1
    Screen Resolution
    1280x800
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB SATA Device (250 GB, SATA-III)
    Internet Speed
    VDSL 50 Mbps
    Browser
    MICROSOFT EDGE
    Antivirus
    WINDOWS DEFENDER
    Other Info
    Legacy MBR installation, no TPM, no Secure Boot, no WDDM 2.0 graphics drivers, no SSE4.2, cannot get more unsupported ;) This is only my test laptop. I had installed Windows 11 here before upgrading my main PC. For my main PC I use everyday see my 2nd system specs.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro v24H2 (build 26100.2894)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-built PC
    CPU
    Intel Core-i7 3770 3.40GHz s1155 (3rd generation)
    Motherboard
    Asus P8H61 s1155 ATX
    Memory
    2x Kingston Hyper-X Blu 8GB DDR3-1600
    Graphics card(s)
    Gainward NE5105T018G1-1070F (nVidia GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB GDDR5)
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD audio (ALC887)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Sony Bravia KDL-19L4000 19" LCD TV via VGA
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900 32-bit 60Hz
    Hard Drives
    WD Blue SA510 2.5 1000GB SSD as system disk, Western Digital Caviar Purple 4TB SATA III (WD40PURZ) as second
    PSU
    Thermaltake Litepower RGB 550W Full Wired
    Case
    SUPERCASE MIDI-TOWER
    Cooling
    Deepcool Gamma Archer CPU cooler, 1x 8cm fan at the back
    Mouse
    Sunnyline OptiEye PS/2
    Keyboard
    Mitsumi 101-key PS/2
    Internet Speed
    100Mbps
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox
    Antivirus
    Microsoft Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Legacy BIOS (MBR) installation, no TPM, no Secure Boot, WDDM 3.0 graphics drivers, WEI score 7.4
That's one of the many reasons I don't like Apple products. They get obsolete in a couple of years while you can keep using your Windows PC for as long as it serves your needs.
I have to disagree massively with this post.

First of all - apple products are renowned for their long life compared to competitors - android phones. Android phones - sure you can carry on using them for as long as you like, but they will NOT get updates after 3,2 even 1 years. (Longest life ones currently about 4 or 5 years), whereas apple phones keep on going for up to 7 years now.

Secondly - you can keep using your Windows PC for as long as it serves your needs. Your statement here, whilst sort of true can be applicable with everything. Whether that is a toaster or a 10 year old android phone. You can carry on using these devices - whilst they serve your needs. What my point is, is that you can say this for pretty much anything, not just windows PCs.

And finally - say you have a 10 year old PC that came with W7 requirements. It is NOT going to run windows 10 or 11, and if you keep it on W7 there are the added security risks, not to mention app compatibility.

I'm sorry if this post was a bit long-winded, and normally I do not post to debate with others opinions, but this time I thought I had to say what the facts are.

I am not denying that apple have their problems. They are expensive for many people.

On a different note, although you mention windows pcs, eventually when W7 (continuing my previous example) had its life ended, you could use a lightweight linux distro which is something you can't do on iPhones.

So I am not completely 100% disagreeing with you here - or asking for argument. Just sharing a) Facts and b) an extension to your post.

Have a good day :-)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 3 3100
    Motherboard
    Asus ROG Strix b450-f
    Memory
    Corsair 8GB x 2 (16GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus Nvidia Geforce GTX 1650 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 27" 1440p
    Screen Resolution
    1440p
    Hard Drives
    Seagate Barracuda 1TB
    256GB NVME Seagate Barracuda
    Browser
    Firefox / Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Amd E2
    Memory
    4GB
    Hard Drives
    128GB SSD
^^^It's All about the amount Apple wants when you can build a PC for cheaper^^^

Eat that Apple​
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    WiN11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom 775 System
    CPU
    Xeon E5450 3.0GHZ (OC 3.6GHZ)
    Motherboard
    ASUS PQ5-EM
    Memory
    8GB (2GBX4)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1080p
    Hard Drives
    1TB|750GB USB, 3 SSDs 2 240GB 1 128GB, 750GB HDD
    PSU
    650WATT Rosewill
    Case
    Rosewill with side Window
    Cooling
    5 Fans and a big HSK for cpu
    Keyboard
    Rosewill RGB
    Mouse
    Rosewill RGB
    Internet Speed
    AT&T 150MB DL\UP
    Browser
    FireFox
    Antivirus
    None
    Other Info
    I'm lucky to even be here after 6yrs from my car accident
  • Operating System
    WiN10 LTSC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Hp 8460p
    CPU
    i7 2670QM 2.20GHZ
    Motherboard
    Hp 161C
    Memory
    8GB (2X4GB) DUAL Channel
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel HD Graphics 3000
    Sound Card
    Intel high Def (basically onboard)
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    OS 128GB l Storage (caddy) 320GB
    PSU
    AC (IDK the watts)
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    A USB 3.0 in the Express Card Slot
The point is Microsoft in cooperation with hardware manufacturers try to convince us our systems are too old by setting ridiculously high system requirements in Windows 11 and probably 12. These specs are not absolutely necessary to run Windows 11, otherwise we could not use all the features of the OS after we bypass compatibility check. We would not be able to install the OS at all in non-compliant systems. If for example Windows 11 needed certain CPU instructions only found in newer generations, it would justify Microsoft's requirements. Not even close, Windows 11 can run perfectly in unsupported computers, but they don't have the advanced security settings. When installing Windows 10 64-bit in the same computers we don't have these features anyway, that doesn't affect our OS experience. As long as we keep Windows Defender or other third party antivirus updated and we don't click on anything without reading it, we are perfectly safe using Windows 11 on unsupported computers.
There are a number of articles written and some informative videos about this exploit circulating on line. Apparently, the industry has had a huge slump in PC sales because people are getting smarter and hanging onto their PCs longer. So, in the name of security the conspiracy is to encourage people to "upgrade" via replacement. That's all well and good for the manufacturer but where does one suppose the old, "NON-SECURE", PCs go?

Well, suffice it to say that the average Joe user will toss that PC, give it to charity, or little Johnny (as if little Johnny doesn't have enough already) and it eventually winds up at a recycling centre at best, or in a land fill. Now I don't live far from one of these recycling centres and I can honestly say the view is grievous. In fact, I've rescued a few of these units from that centre until I got caught. lol

I'm talking about hundreds of PCs with very little wrong with them heading to the crusher or whatever for no good reason - no, they're not really being recycled. I know this. I talked to the people in charge. Many of these PCs aren't even 5 years old but guess what? They don't meet Win 11 requirements and yes, people panic and yes, people toss them. It breaks my heart. I even started a YouTube channel urging people to keep their PCs and show them how to upgrade because of this. For your average domestic end user there's no good reason to trash a PC that's only ten years old. This is insane! Sure. I realize the enthusiasts want the latest, greatest, state of the art hardware and all that but I also like to think enthusiasts are not really the problem.

My enthusiast days are over. I have enough old hardware to keep me busy for the remainder of my life now. It's time to step aside for the next generation. Enthusiasts are only a small percentage of PC users and I appreciate them. I enjoy watching their YouTube videos and garnering all the information on newer tech, but there's mountains of old hardware that runs perfectly fine with a little TLC. I've decided to focus on that more.

One good thing that I have to say about Windows 10 is that it has one of the best virus protection programs going. Does the average domestic end user really need TPM? The short answer is a resounding NO. But they don't know that. Instead, they keep getting prompted by Windows and most of them are being told their PC isn't good enough. Oh yes, that's definitely going to be a factor in the accumulation of E-Waste this planet already suffers from: Windows Fear ware. People like new stuff and they buy more because they want new and they want to stay current. Back in the day we called it 'keeping up with the Jones's'. But this is an old marketing strategy, tried and tested.

No, I'm not going to change anyone's mind about this. I realize that. I also realize that not everyone can be a PC builder. Somewhere through all of this there should be a factor of reason. Making TPM mandatory for an OS is just not reasonable — especially when it has failed numerous times to provide the protection that it promises. And no, I'm not going to go into long rants about stolen security keys and inundate the reader with links to support my statement. The proof is in the pudding and the writing is on the wall. TPM is not what it's cracked up to be. The Consortium has had ten years to prove otherwise. It's time to go back to the drawing board.

As technology advances it becomes increasingly evident that the age of towers and desk tops are becoming a thing of the past. In a way, that's a good thing. Even laptops are hardly as popular as tablets these days. Me, I'm from another time. I concur and respect the need for better security at the Corporate level. That's reasonable. What I frown upon is shoving it down the throats of domestic end users to make them pay for it. Yeah, sure, nobody is holding a gun to the head of the Windows user and saying, "Get Windows 11 or else". Psychology is more subtle than this. But let's be real. Nobody likes being told their PC sucks, or is too old. The piles of discarded PCs on pallets I've seen are proof enough of this.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    WIN 11, WIN 10, WIN 8.1, WIN 7 U, WIN 7 PRO, WIN 7 HOME (32 Bit), LINUX MINT
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    DIY, ASUS, and DELL
    CPU
    Intel i7 6900K (octocore) / AMD 3800X (8 core)
    Motherboard
    ASUS X99E-WS USB 3.1
    Memory
    128 GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM (B DIE)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 1070
    Sound Card
    Crystal Sound (onboard)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    single Samsung 30" 4K and 8" aux monitor
    Screen Resolution
    4K and something equally attrocious
    Hard Drives
    A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W

    Ports X, Y, and Z are reserved for USB access and removable drives.

    Drive types consist of the following: Various mechanical hard drives bearing the brand names, Seagate, Toshiba, and Western Digital. Various NVMe drives bearing the brand names Kingston, Intel, Silicon Power, Crucial, Western Digital, and Team Group. Various SATA SSDs bearing various different brand names.

    RAID arrays included:

    LSI RAID 10 (WD Velociraptors) 1115.72 GB
    LSI RAID 10 (WD SSDS) 463.80 GB

    INTEL RAID 0 (KINGSTON HYPER X) System 447.14 GB
    INTEL RAID 1 TOSHIBA ENTERPRIZE class Data 2794.52 GB
    INTEL RAID 1 SEAGATE HYBRID 931.51 GB
    PSU
    SEVERAL. I prefer my Corsair Platinum HX1000i but I also like EVGA power supplies
    Case
    ThermalTake Level 10 GT (among others)
    Cooling
    Noctua is my favorite and I use it in my main. I also own various other coolers. Not a fan of liquid cooling.
    Keyboard
    all kinds.
    Mouse
    all kinds
    Internet Speed
    360 mbps - 1 gbps (depending)
    Browser
    FIREFOX
    Antivirus
    KASPERSKY (no apologies)
    Other Info
    I own too many laptops: A Dell touch screen with Windows 11 and 6 others (not counting the other four laptops I bought for this household.) Being a PC builder I own many desktop PCs as well. I am a father of five providing PCs, laptops, and tablets for all my family, most of which I have modified, rebuilt, or simply built from scratch. I do not own a cell phone, never have, never will.
I can see your points also, but at this point for me refurbished was the answer anyway as it is cheaper :-)
My wife and I stopped buying new laptops and will only buy OEM Refurbished laptops from Micro Center. We can buy a more powerful laptop for less than what Walmart sells there less powerful new laptops for. For my desktops I only buy the PowerSpec desktops from Micro Center. They are in the same category as building your own except they are prebuilt.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec B746
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    16GB (8GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM x2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    #1. LG ULTRAWIDE 34" #2. AOC Q32G2WG3 32"
    Screen Resolution
    #1. 3440 X 1440 #2. 1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    NVMe WDC WDS100T2B0C-00PXH0 1TB
    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
    PSU
    750 Watts (62.5A)
    Case
    PowerSpec/Lian Li ATX 205
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270
    Mouse
    Logitech M185
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge and Firefox
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G156
    CPU
    Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz
    Motherboard
    AsusTeK Prime B360M-S
    Memory
    16 MB DDR 4-2666
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Speptre HDMI 75Hz
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 EVO 500GB NVMe
    Mouse
    Logitek M185
    Keyboard
    Logitek K270
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge and Edge Canary
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
My wife and I stopped buying new laptops and will only buy OEM Refurbished laptops from Micro Center. We can buy a more powerful laptop for less than what Walmart sells there less powerful new laptops for. For my desktops I only buy the PowerSpec desktops from Micro Center. They are in the same category as building your own except they are prebuilt.
My phone is my first refurbished tech product, definitely not the last! My Pc is made by a company in the uk where you choose your specs and they will build it for you. I understand some people see this as lazy but the cable management is top-notch, and you dont have to worry about bottlenecking or whatever.

If I needed a laptop for about £300, I would never get a brand new one. Refurbished thinkpad, MacBook or something. Much higher power, and often you even get the addition of actual io..
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 21H2
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Chillblast
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 3 3100
    Motherboard
    Asus ROG Strix b450-f
    Memory
    Corsair 8GB x 2 (16GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus Nvidia Geforce GTX 1650 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell 27" 1440p
    Screen Resolution
    1440p
    Hard Drives
    Seagate Barracuda 1TB
    256GB NVME Seagate Barracuda
    Browser
    Firefox / Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
  • Operating System
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Amd E2
    Memory
    4GB
    Hard Drives
    128GB SSD
My wife and I stopped buying new laptops and will only buy OEM Refurbished laptops from Micro Center. We can buy a more powerful laptop for less than what Walmart sells there less powerful new laptops for.
I've never bought a new laptop, always refurbished. Nine years ago my (then) only laptop died unexpectedly. I needed a replacement ASAP and found one in my local branch of Cashconverters (a pawn broker chain), a 3 year old Toshiba L750 running Windows 7. That machine is still going strong and is now my 'System One' over on Ten Forums.

Not wanting to get caught short again, I soon got a second laptop, again from Cashconverters. Since then every machine I've bought has come from Cashconverters, who have an online store here in the UK. All five laptops in my specs below came from them (there are 3 more in 'Other Info'). My System One and System Three were both less than a year old when I bought them, and were still available as new machines at twice the price I paid.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB Samsung EVO 870 SSD
    Internet Speed
    50 Mbps
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October 2021 it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October. Windows Update offered the 22H2 Feature Update on 20th September 2022. It got the 23H2 Feature Update on 4th November 2023 through Windows Update, and 24H2 on 3rd October 2024 through Windows Update by setting the Target Release Version for 24H2.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 8GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Dev, Beta, and RP 24H2 as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 8GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus the Insider Beta, Dev, Canary, and Release Preview builds as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM SIX is a Dell Latitude 5550, Core Ultra 7 165H, 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, supported device, Windows 11 Pro 24H2, Hyper-V host machine.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Latitude E4310
    CPU
    Intel® Core™ i5-520M
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics card(s)
    (integrated graphics) Intel HD Graphics
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB Crucial MX500 SSD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround. In-place upgrade to 22H2 using ISO and a workaround. Feature Update to 23H2 by manually installing the Enablement Package. In-place upgrade to 24H2 using hybrid 23H2/24H2 install media. Also running Insider Beta, Dev, and Canary builds as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro.

    My SYSTEM FOUR is a 2-in-1 convertible Lenovo Yoga 11e 20DA, Celeron N2930, 8GB RAM, 256GB ssd. Unsupported device: currently running Win10 Pro, plus Win11 Pro RTM and Insider Dev, Beta, and RP 24H2 as native boot vhdx.

    My SYSTEM FIVE is a Dell Latitude 3190 2-in-1, Pentium Silver N5030, 8GB RAM, 512GB NVMe ssd, supported device running Windows 11 Pro, plus the Insider Beta, Dev, Canary, and Release Preview builds as a native boot .vhdx.

    My SYSTEM SIX is a Dell Latitude 5550, Core Ultra 7 165H, 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, supported device, Windows 11 Pro 24H2, Hyper-V host machine.
My Pc is made by a company in the uk where you choose your specs and they will build it for you.
We used to have computer fairs in my area. When I wanted a new desktop I would go to what ever computer fair was going on at the time. I would check out all of the vendors and choose the one that gave me the most bang for my buck. They would build the computer to customers specs while they waited. There was only one time I had to go to the shop the next day and pick up my computer. I got there to late and the vendors had to be out at a certain time. Now the only computer fairs that I know of are over a hundred miles away and I would have to drive through Baltimore Maryland. Something I will only do if I have to. The closest I come to building my own system was the couple of times I replaced the motherboard. I don't count the time I replaced a CPU or the many times I replaced hardware or memory as building my own.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec B746
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    16GB (8GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM x2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    #1. LG ULTRAWIDE 34" #2. AOC Q32G2WG3 32"
    Screen Resolution
    #1. 3440 X 1440 #2. 1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    NVMe WDC WDS100T2B0C-00PXH0 1TB
    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
    PSU
    750 Watts (62.5A)
    Case
    PowerSpec/Lian Li ATX 205
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270
    Mouse
    Logitech M185
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge and Firefox
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Canary Channel
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G156
    CPU
    Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz
    Motherboard
    AsusTeK Prime B360M-S
    Memory
    16 MB DDR 4-2666
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Speptre HDMI 75Hz
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 EVO 500GB NVMe
    Mouse
    Logitek M185
    Keyboard
    Logitek K270
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge and Edge Canary
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender

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