Windows 12 ! Already....

Scannerman · Jul 26, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Not video cards, but I had more than a couple of printers that the manufacturer did not upgrade drivers for so would not work with Vista / 7 at all.

And it's not a scare tactic. It's planned obsolescence. A slightly different take, but nonetheless, along the lines of what you say.

Personally, though, I prefer the security. You may not like it - but too many #%^$#@%^ end users out there who have 0 clue as to PC security and how to stay safe. If Linux has been doing security like this all along, why is it wrong for Microsoft to start implementing it?

Turns out I had a new UEFI Firmware update waiting for me.

View attachment 65701

So, I installed it this morning, and then went back and set up TPM to use the physical module (apologies for the blurriness, I snapped the pics really quickly as I needed to get my system back up and running):

View attachment 65702 View attachment 65704 View attachment 65703

Technically, after disabling fTPM I shouldn't need to change the value of Device Select but I always set it manually anyway, just in case the value for AMD fTPM Switch gets altered back, the value underneath will still bne (hopefully!) set to use the physical module.

Of course, there is also the fact that I've probably performed over ten thousand BIOS and UEFI firmware updates in my lifetime, and this particular rig, alone, I've probably performed something on the order of 20 (unique) UEFI firmware updates, so I know exactly where to go. That definitely helps a lot.

Interesting. Normally when I see that message, it results from attempting to install a 32 bit driver in a 64 bit OS. I didn't realize that Intel's setup gives virtually the same error message because of a .Net imcompatibility (and that should never be the case, because .Net is supposed to be interoperable in the first place).

Gotta love Intel. Lol.

Call me an old chrone but I don't wanna fool with that. I keep wondering how many times I'm going to have to go into my BIOS after an update to straighten things out again. I suppose I could just turn updates off and wait until something crucial emerges. I used to love playing with my new toys. Perhaps one day I'll get one for my "Win 11 ready" AMD build that wasn't so ready after all (despite what the annoying nagware kept telling me) just because I'll have a new toy to play with and waste time on.

.

Should we take wagers, John? How long before you have to go back in to tweak again. A week? A month? By all means keep us posted. This is the only way we can learn. I sincerely appreciate the work you're doing here because one day I might have to refer to it. Count yourself among the pioneers and early explorers. AMD users need to see this.

Yup. Intel is really losing it. They're losing their popular features and they're losing customers too. My last personal build for my own use wasn't AMD by happenstance. Admittedly, Intel blames Microsoft's security standards (I read it on their own site) for all this feature dropping. Perhaps they have a point. They didn't come straight out and say it was TPM, of course, because they're also part of the TCG protection Syndicate errrm... "Consortium". They all made us an offer we couldn't refuse and that includes AMD. They have each other's backs. So maybe we gotta love 'em all because they all do such a swell job looking out for each other. As for the domestic end user, well... It's bizznizz as usual: Buy more!

The pictures are clear enough for this old man's eyes. I can read everything just fine. Personally, I'm all for security. I'm just not up to false promises and monopolies that look out for eachother but don't really care about the little guy. The trusted platform isn't about whether we can trust the Consortium. TPM is about whether they can trust the end user to surrender their ownership of the hardware to the Consortium. Smarter men than myself have said so and by observing the TPM ten year track record I'm inclined to believe them. My conclusion is that TPM is not there for my protection. It's not there for my convenience. It's not there for better performance. It's not even there for my entertainment. So what is it there for? A: It's there for the consortium.

TechnoMage2021 · Jul 26, 2023

I have no idea what that's all about, but I just thank Goodness that I don't have to deal with it.

Maybe it's true, that "Ignorance is bliss!"
I just installed Windows 11/Pro/64 on my PC, got a few updates for drivers, then just sit back and enjoy my PC. All those three and four letter groups mean absolutely nothing to me, or 99% of the world, for that matter.

When I installed an old Windows 7/Ultimate/32 HD in this PC, it snuggled in and went right to work, minus a few drivers.
I put in the old Gigabyte Drivers Disk and installed the few missing drivers and "all's well in mudville".

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?
TM

Scannerman · Jul 26, 2023

Didn't they used to sell boxes of Cracker Jack with a Wizard on the front?

lol Yeah, maybe that's what I should do for my second Win 7 install: Do they even have a Gen 2 version? I know IRST works fine on Gen 2 installations. I'm gonna go check that out. Thanks for the heads up.

Scannerman · Jul 26, 2023

Ooops~!

Maybe not a good idea after all.

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

It's starting to look like I'm going to have to fire up one of my junk PCs if I ever plan on getting "Win 12"
at any point coz I sure won't be visiting places like Getintopc for GEN 2 WIN 12 on my clean work station. :winkt:

ShamrockRig · Jul 27, 2023

Still not sure why this thread exists, No not windows 12 already, at all. There is a dedicated website for win 12 and even then that was about a year/year and a half premature. Genuinely wish this thread would get closed. Pointless doesn't even describe it.

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

ShamrockRig said:
Still not sure why this thread exists, No not windows 12 already, at all. There is a dedicated website for win 12 and even then that was about a year/year and a half premature. Genuinely wish this thread would get closed. Pointless doesn't even describe it.

lol it's a sham! I think it's a great thread. It gives people an opportunity to vent and laugh about the ridiculousness of all these nonsensical ploys to get people to purchase new operating systems when it isn't even needful. On the flip side, if people wish, they could suggest some ideas here that might even make Windows 12 something worth having.

Personally, I think Windows 12 should be as basic and bare bones as practically possible. Then people could just buy apps from the Windows store and customize their operating system. People stripped down Windows 10 for this very reason. A modular OS makes a great deal of sense. This way Windows could offer an affordable OS that people could build up over time that suited their personal needs on their PC.

But hey, that's just what I think. I'd be interested in hearing what others think about what the next latest Windows OS should be like. :)

TechnoMage2021 · Jul 27, 2023

Norton? You gotta be kidding me! No one in their right mind today, would let Norton anywhere near their PC. I certainly won't!!!
Old tech saying, "to really screw up your PC, put Norton on it!".

Want Win-7? First disable Norton, and then try this link:

Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download

Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download Latest OEM RTM version. It is Full Bootable ISO Image of Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download.

getintopc.com

Worked just fine for me, back in March.

Cheers mate!
TM

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

TechnoMage2021 said:
Norton? You gotta be kidding me! No one in their right mind today, would let Norton anywhere near their PC. I certainly won't!!!
Old tech saying, "to really screw up your PC, put Norton on it!".

Want Win-7? First disable Norton, and then try this link:

Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download

Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download Latest OEM RTM version. It is Full Bootable ISO Image of Windows 7 SP1 March 2023 Free Download.

getintopc.com

Worked just fine for me, back in March.

Cheers mate!
TM

No way. I got Norton free with my AMD build and it's the full version. I still have a whole 90 days left to go! Admittedly, it's not as good as Kaspersky but it's only a gaming rig so I'm not too worried about it. You do realize Norton made GHOST right?

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

Magemeister... It behooves me to say, thank you so much for the link. Norton didn't even hiccough when I clicked on it. Looks like I'm set for a fresh install of Windows 7. Can't wait to get a functional IRST back again. I will also be sure to follow your advice and turn off Windows Update once I'm done installing it. :wink:

Winuser · Jul 27, 2023

Scannerman said:
Didn't they used to sell boxes of Cracker Jack with a Wizard on the front?

The way some people drive I think a few boxes come with a drivers license.

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

Winuser said:
The way some people drive I think a few boxes come with a drivers license.

I'm certain of it. I'd rather they just came with Cap'n Crunch whistles but that's another story.

johnlgalt · Jul 27, 2023

Scannerman said:
Call me an old chrone but I don't wanna fool with that. I keep wondering how many times I'm going to have to go into my BIOS after an update to straighten things out again. I suppose I could just turn updates off and wait until something crucial emerges. I used to love playing with my new toys. Perhaps one day I'll get one for my "Win 11 ready" AMD build that wasn't so ready after all (despite what the annoying nagware kept telling me) just because I'll have a new toy to play with and waste time on. .

MSI purported the same thing for their X570 lineup. Considering I have their flagship, and considering it was an outright lie on their part (their first official BIOS supporting Windows 11 was released in Jan 2022, 9 months after public Beta and 3 months after RTM of first public release), I feel ya.

But the chip made all the difference in the world.

Scannerman said:
Should we take wagers, John? How long before you have to go back in to tweak again. A week? A month? By all means keep us posted. This is the only way we can learn. I sincerely appreciate the work you're doing here because one day I might have to refer to it. Count yourself among the pioneers and early explorers. AMD users need to see this.

If you want to lose money, sure, I'll agree to a gentleman's wager with you.

I enter the UEFI to update and then set my options back up. I've only, maybe 3 times total in all 3+ years of its existence, have had to enter the UEFI firmware setup pages for something else, like allowing booting from a 3rd party device so I could boot from a USB to update firmware on my drives.

I've been updating BIOS and, later, UEFI (as well as general firmware for all sorts of devices), for a very, very long time now. I've had maybe 3 (5?) failures in at least several thousand firmware updates. I'm confident in both the updating itself as well as the 'post update re-configuration" part lol.

(The secret is to take pictures of settings when they are extensive, and store the pics in a place my phone can easily get access to again. So, I really don't have to repeatedly enter the BIOS to "set something that I forgot to set" post-update. It's a once and done situation.)

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

johnlgalt said:
MSI purported the same thing for their X570 lineup. Considering I have their flagship, and considering it was an outright lie on their part (their first official BIOS supporting Windows 11 was released in Jan 2022, 9 months after public Beta and 3 months after RTM of first public release), I feel ya.

But the chip made all the difference in the world.

If you want to lose money, sure, I'll agree to a gentleman's wager with you.

I enter the UEFI to update and then set my options back up. I've only, maybe 3 times total in all 3+ years of its existence, have had to enter the UEFI firmware setup pages for something else, like allowing booting from a 3rd party device so I could boot from a USB to update firmware on my drives.

I've been updating BIOS and, later, UEFI (as well as general firmware for all sorts of devices), for a very, very long time now. I've had maybe 3 (5?) failures in at least several thousand firmware updates. I'm confident in both the updating itself as well as the 'post update re-configuration" part lol.

(The secret is to take pictures of settings when they are extensive, and store the pics in a place my phone can easily get access to again. So, I really don't have to repeatedly enter the BIOS to "set something that I forgot to set" post-update. It's a once and done situation.)

My X570 HERO is also one of those "flagship" boards so I'm definitely keen. In fact, just for kicks I'm using it right now, typing this. TBH I haven't checked for updates for this thing in over a year so I should probably do that. Three times in three years isn't so bad. I'm thinking about tearing it apart again anyway and setting up NVMe in RAID 0 just because.

Phone cams sure have come a long way. I appreciate the clarity of your pictures. Any chance you could share the make and model of the TPM key you're using?

spapakons · Jul 27, 2023

Modular Windows sounds like Linux! Sacrilege! You must cite the Windows 11 EULA ten times as a punishment...he he...
Regarding Norton AntiVirus, I used it up to version 2006. Then it became gradually more and more resource consuming making my old Pentium 4 feel like a slow Pentium II, so I removed it and used the free version of Avast Antivirus. I haven't used it recently to see it is still too resource consuming, but back then it was very good protection. Please let me know. Thanks.

johnlgalt · Jul 27, 2023

Scannerman said:
My X570 HERO is also one of those "flagship" boards so I'm definitely keen. In fact, just for kicks I'm using it right now, typing this. TBH I haven't checked for updates for this thing in over a year so I should probably do that. Three times in three years isn't so bad. I'm thinking about tearing it apart again anyway and setting up NVMe in RAID 0 just because.

Phone cams sure have come a long way. I appreciate the clarity of your pictures. Any chance you could share the make and model of the TPM key you're using?

I bought mine from MSI directly. That way Iknew I was getting something 100% compatible with my rig.

MSI TPM 2.0 MODULE - MSI-US Official Store

INFINEON 9635 TPM-3.19 Module

us-store.msi.com

They've gotten a bit pricey since Windows 11 blew up though lol.

johnlgalt · Jul 27, 2023

Also, both of us are going to have to update our UEFI firmware by the beginning of next year to address the new AMD sidecar data vulnerabilities found in our CPUs, which AMD said it is fixing by the end of the year with a new AGESA version, which will mean we'll have to see when our respective manufacturers then take that new AGESA along with whatever other specific fixes they want to dial in and put put out a new UEFI firmware.

So, it's coming, and if you want to address those vulnerabilities, a UEFI firmware (BIOS) upgrade is gonna be mandatory.

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

spapakons said:
Modular Windows sounds like Linux! Sacrilege! You must cite the Windows 11 EULA ten times as a punishment...he he...
Regarding Norton AntiVirus, I used it up to version 2006. Then it became gradually more and more resource consuming making my old Pentium 4 feel like a slow Pentium II, so I removed it and used the free version of Avast Antivirus. I haven't used it recently to see it is still too resource consuming, but back then it was very good protection. Please let me know. Thanks.

I don't think it's that much a resource hog as it once was. I had a one year subscription with Bulldog and apparently it was bought out by Norton. The version I was given was Norton 360 for Gamers, which is fitting considering that this is a gaming rig. My own gaming rig was something on my bucket list because I built so many for others and never built one for myself. In a way I suppose that was a bit of a waste as I'm not really a hard core gamer. There was a time I used to do a lot more online gaming but then MSN Gaming Zone died and I lost interest. That was long before I ever owned a gaming rig. Oh, the irony!

I think these days, resources are not so much a concern with VS on newer builds. We are long past the days of single and dual core Pentiums and even this rig sports 32 GB of system RAM (probably not ideal for gaming as 16 is considered optimal). Avast, on the other hand, really is a hawg. Even on newer builds I noticed it can take down your system a notch or two.

*edit - It wouldn't be the first time Microsoft considered making a modular OS. At the rate they keep coming out with new operating systems they may as well start cranking out "distros" anyway. I mean, they don't have to call it that. They could always come up with some new name for it like Windows 12 Lite. lol

Scannerman · Jul 27, 2023

johnlgalt said:
I bought mine from MSI directly. That way Iknew I was getting something 100% compatible with my rig.

MSI TPM 2.0 MODULE - MSI-US Official Store

INFINEON 9635 TPM-3.19 Module

us-store.msi.com

They've gotten a bit pricey since Windows 11 blew up though lol.

johnlgalt said:
Also, both of us are going to have to update our UEFI firmware by the beginning of next year to address the new AMD sidecar data vulnerabilities found in our CPUs, which AMD said it is fixing by the end of the year with a new AGESA version, which will mean we'll have to see when our respective manufacturers then take that new AGESA along with whatever other specific fixes they want to dial in and put put out a new UEFI firmware.

So, it's coming, and if you want to address those vulnerabilities, a UEFI firmware (BIOS) upgrade is gonna be mandatory.

Thanks for the info, John. I like that the pictures show the pin layout. Not sure if something that specialized would work okay with ASUS though. I like MSI too and I've made many MSI builds. At the rate ASUS is going with the quality of their components and their poor support I'm about to recommend them over ASUS these days. MSI has certainly come a long way over the years.

Sidecar data vulnerabilities?? That's the first I've heard of it. I hope it isn't anything as nefarious as Spectre/Meltdown.

Scannerman · Jul 28, 2023

Perhaps some of us don't realize it but we're already psyching up on this thread for Windows 12.

We're discussing apps, procedures, and things that are likely to give us trouble on Win 12 or simply don't work at all, hardware solutions that may or may not work, quick and dirty hacks, venting frustrations, etc. etc. It's bizznizz as usual on the Windows 12 Already thread! :winkt:

And why not? I would be so disappointed to see this thread deleted. I mean, we all know it's going to come right? If Win 11 is any indication of what Windows 12 will be like then this PARODY THREAD isn't really a total waste. Are we not having fun here? Are we not learning a few things in the process?

Let's please keep this thread.